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  1.    #1  
    Ok. For all the talk about all the features everyone wants in the next deivce, the most critical one for day to day functionality must be making a call and getting an email. I would venture to say that for most of us, these two functions are the ones we use the most.

    For email I have used Snapper, Versamail and now Chatter, but they all share the same flaw. When the data connection is in use, I can't receive a phone call. if you search the threads there are many issues of calls "going into voicemail" while the phone is checking to see if there are any emails it should be downloading. And trust me, I love to click on my email app and see email waiting for me without having to download it first.

    So how to solve this basic conflict between data and voice?

    I heard that with EVDV it would be possible to have BOTH a data transmittion and a voice call at the same time. But EVDV may never come because everyone is on board EVDO.

    Does the EVDO that is being implemented by Verizon and Sprint allow for BOTH a data transmittion and a voice call at the same time?

    And a follow-up - Does EVDO Revision A allow for it? I understand that Revison A is when they will go to all VOIP and then, of course it will allow for it.

    Can anyone can shed some light on this?


    PS. Some links on EVDO, EVDO Reviosn A and EVDV that I have found:

    http://www.evdoinfo.com/EVDO/Info/Wh...O?_2005021237/
    http://dailywireless.org/modules.php...print&sid=4358
  2. #2  
    That's one of the great things that got me to switch from Verizon to GSM (Cingular). When I'm connected to the net and a call comes in, the data flow pauses and I get the phone call! CDMA phones can't do this as far as I understand.

    Mark
  3. #3  
    EVDO will not allow for simultaneous voice and data. However, with a data connection as fast as evdo it will take a fraction of the time to download emails, etc so the chances of an active data connection interfering with an incoming voice call will decrease.

    I dont know much about the voip migration, but it would seem to make sense that once everything is broken down into packets it should be relatively easy to ensure that voice gets priority.


    -rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  4. #4  
    Correct, current EV-DO solutions do not allow both. I also agree that the speed of the data connection will eliminate some of these issues.

    Essentially, by turning voice into data (VoIP,) Rev A will essentially allow you to make a call and surf at the same time. Not the exact same thing, but essentially what ppl are looking for.

    Here's a good explanation of why it appears EV-DV will become vaporware:

    http://www.airvananet.com/pdf/newsle...Newsletter.pdf

    All that being said, will checking e-mail block an incoming call? I can't say I know that 100%. Hopefully Sprint and Verizon are considering that in the way they apply all this.
    Last edited by Geckotek; 07/13/2005 at 10:49 AM.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by mhzimmer
    That's one of the great things that got me to switch from Verizon to GSM (Cingular). When I'm connected to the net and a call comes in, the data flow pauses and I get the phone call! CDMA phones can't do this as far as I understand.

    Mark
    Umm....that's not true. EDGE/GSM might do the same thing as 1xRTT/CDMA network...when you're connected, but idle, a call will come through. But, GPRS/GSM does not allow calls to come through if you are transmitting data...not even if you're NOT transmitting data.

    As to which versions of EV-DO allow simultaneous voice...prolly none...maybe revision A. But I'm sure all EV-DO versions will at least be similar to EDGE or 1xRTT networks in that if you're idle a call will come through. And like previous posters have said...less downloading time on EV-DO equates to more opportunities for calls to come through.
  6. #6  
    EV-DO is 1xRTT....1xRTT Evolution Data Only (or Data Optimized) to be specific.

    Rev A won't allow simultaneous analog voice & data, but will allow simulatneous digital voice (VoIP) & data (which is like saying data & data.)

    Guess this will require another DA converter in our phones.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  7. #7  
    Hmm....always read everywhere that 1xRTT had a maximum bandwidth of 144kbps. Googled it again, and saw the same stuff, however, other sites properly say that the first generation of 1xRTT is 144kbps. The next generation is supposed to have twice the bandwidth (I'm assuming this is Rev A; and those speeds are download only). Then EV-DV is supposed to come, right???

    I read that PDF, and it sounds like bad news to me.

    I am correct in saying that regardless of if you're transmitting or not over GPRS...your calls will not go through, right?? That's how I always heard it -- as long as you're signed on to your data account...no calls! That's one main reason I got the 300 (besides the speed & price difference).
  8. #8  
    I thought I read a call would come through if connected but no data transmitting @ the time. Class A GPRS is supposed to have simultaneous voice & data, but not Class A in the US that I'm aware of.

    Correct on original release of 1xRTT. EV-DO is the next release based on the 1xRTT standard. EV-DV is yet another release, but more and more it looks like it may go the way of the Dodo. Even Sprint has backed off and is no longer committing to going w/ EV-DV.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  9. #9  
    The post about GPRS not letting voice through when the data connection is idle is incorrect. I've had GPRS for three years (Treo 270, 600, & now 650) and I keep my data connection on all the time. If no data is moving I receive calls just fine.
    ek
  10.    #10  
    I think this becomes more and more critical not just for email, but for IM applications as well. I find that I am on Yahoo or AIM all the time. There are Treo applications that allow you to interact just as well (or almost as well) as if I was at my desktop.

    But it too is a data connection, and while it is active, all my calls go into voicemail.

    Sounds like GSm does a better job of quickly dropping the data to allow voice, and eventually with VOIP it will all be data. But even with EVDO this will still be a problem.

    I even though about getting a 2nd phone line and forwarding the call if busy - but to pay sprint 10 cents a minute for that privilege is way too much. And who really wants to carry a 2nd device anyway?

    I would think this is an issue that deserves some engineering resources and I hope someone over at Palm thinking like I do. If GSM is really better at this, than perhaps that is something I should be looking into when my contract is up.
  11. #11  
    This is what I am taking from this thread...

    Mumbo jumbo rtt somthing with ev and do blah blah blah...

    For us not so techy people who just want the facts on if the phone is going to work properly...a yes or a no would work just dandy...
    Need information on Real Estate, Please contact me!!!
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  12. #12  
    Just an FYI that confirms the situation with EVDV. (the tech we were all salivating for 2 years ago) Telecommunications Magazine had a story about it 3-4 months ago. Absolutely dead as a door nail.

    Verizon and then Sprint decided to build upon their evdo networks instead of moving towards evdv as it became clear everything was headed voip. If all of the information is going to be packets anyway (voip and data) than evdv being able to do pstn and data at the same time becomes a lot less compelling.

    The only challenge is QOS but building those into the networks is much more cost effective than deploying an entirely new technology.

    -rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekegley
    The post about GPRS not letting voice through when the data connection is idle is incorrect. I've had GPRS for three years (Treo 270, 600, & now 650) and I keep my data connection on all the time. If no data is moving I receive calls just fine.
    ek

    well - the central issue here is really an ACTIVE connection - I have a CDMA device, and also keep the data connection on all the time (but in DORMANT mode - which is central to the issue) and can get calls just fine. It's the whole grey arrows vs green arrows thing.

    The point of this thread (for the most part) is that folks are saying with EV-DO you can be ACTIVE on a session (as opposed to just being dormant) and be able to pause that session and take another session. So the key is being active vs dormant.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by J0V3
    This is what I am taking from this thread...

    Mumbo jumbo rtt somthing with ev and do blah blah blah...

    For us not so techy people who just want the facts on if the phone is going to work properly...a yes or a no would work just dandy...
    On Cingular or T-Mobile (GSM) - If your phone is transfering data and a voice call is trying to get through, the data line will be dropped and the voice call will ring. (I have no experience with this, just repeating what I've been told).

    [Can anyone confirm that on GSM this is really really true?]

    Sprint & Verizon (CDMA) - If your phone is transfering data all voice calls will go to voicemail.

    My question was will the newest "high speed" service (EVDO) change that for Sprint & Verizon users and the answer is no. It won't. it won't change until you hear that the voice calls change over to VOIP calls. And my bet is that will not happen until 2007.

    None of the carriers will risk VOIP for thier core voice service until it is 100% proven. So until then, figure out another solution.

    One other point which is worth mentioning is the arguement that because EVDO is faster, your phone will spend less time downloading and so voice calls could come through. I disagree with this. If EVDO is faster, you will find more things (IM, browsing, checking remote cameras, whatever) to occupy that data connection.

    That's it in a nutshell. Hope it was not too technical.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuty
    On Cingular or T-Mobile (GSM) - If your phone is transfering data and a voice call is trying to get through, the data line will be dropped and the voice call will ring. (I have no experience with this, just repeating what I've been told).

    [Can anyone confirm that on GSM this is really really true?]
    On my Cingular 650, if I'm browsing the data line is dropped in favor of the call. I asked someone about this some time ago and was told that this is per the carrier's requirements for the phone and not necessarily due to a GSM connection. I do not know if that last part is true, but I do know it will alert me to a call and I can answer.

    Hope this helps.
  16. TxDot's Avatar
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    #16  
    I have an unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile and when the data connection is active the calls go to VM. I tested this by telling Chatter (my email client) to reload my mail box and while it was downloading the mail I called my number (twice) and it went straight to VM both times.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  17. kevroc's Avatar
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    #17  
    I have the Samsung I730. I was just streaming NPR using WMP10 at 64k over EVDO (crystal clear, no buffering) and called the phone from my landline. The call rang through (I let it go to voicemail) and the NPR streamed resumed playing. My only guess is that EVDO must give priority to voice calls. While not "simultaneous" it's good enough for me.
  18. #18  
    NOW I'M GETTING CONFUSED TOO!! I know that one of those services did not drop your dormant connection...I thought it was GPRS as it was the most inferior of all the choices. Here we go, we've got: GPRS, 1XRTT (strictly the first generation; not EV-DO), EDGE, EV-DO. Can we all agree that they all drop your connection if it's DORMANT, but NOT if it's ACTIVE?!? The only 2 that seem debatable to me are if GPRS allows calls through when the data connection is DORMANT...and if EV-DO allows calls through when the data connection is ACTIVE. I'm still leaning toward neither of them allowing calls during those times.
  19. #19  
    Alright, as of kevroc's post...EV-DO does allow calls through active data connections. And TxDot needs to check if calls go through with a dormant data connection, not an active one.
  20. TxDot's Avatar
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    #20  
    Yes calls go through when data is not being transmitted. Chatter keeps the data connection open all the time and I rarely get a call sent to VM. YMMV based on emial volume and call volume. The more email you get and the more calls you get the higher the probability that a call will go straight to VM.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
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