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  1. #21  
    SOO....it's final!! ALL data connections will allow voice calls to go through if they are DORMANT, and the only data connection to allow voice calls to go through during ACTIVE data transfers is EV-DO.

    Anybody have a disagreement with that statement?
  2. #22  
    Yes, EV-DO does NOT allow voice calls during active data transfer, but it will kill the data transfer for the voice call to go through.

    However, w/ Rev A, VoIP turns voice to data and therefore you can still talk and have an active data transfer (VoIP in fact will be an active data transfer in itself.) But you still can't have a traditional switched voice connection during an active data transfer.

    Edit: Sorry to be confusing, I keep thinking simultaneous voice and data. So I guess I am not really disagreeing w/ your statement as much as I am qualifying it.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  3. #23  
    Will evdo really kill an active data session to take a voice call? That would be news to me. The only proof I have seen is the poster with the 730, and while his test results were promising they were far from truly scientific. I have had voice calls come through when streaming on my sprint 650...

    -rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  4. #24  
    True, we have no other proof as of now. I've read some stuff, but I've slept since then and I don't recall what it will/will not do. Besides, most of what I read was on EV-DV.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    However, w/ Rev A, VoIP turns voice to data and therefore you can still talk and have an active data transfer (VoIP in fact will be an active data transfer in itself.) But you still can't have a traditional switched voice connection during an active data transfer.
    Ahh...so, I'm still not understanding how EV-DV is dead. It seems like EV-DO was, is, and will be the same thing as what you're talking about -- the EV-DO Rev A building ontop of itself by adding VoIP. Since EV-DO has a fairly low upload bandwidth, it makes since that it can't do voice and data simultaneously. Soo...how is the "new" EV-DO any different from the initial EV-DO? I still see EV-DV happening in the future...but it couldn't be that bigga deal, just a minor annoyance.
  6. kevroc's Avatar
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    #26  
    Just a followup...

    On my 730, I have pretty clear indicators when the connection is "Active" versus "Dormant". I just initiated a download session of email on it and as it was "receiving headers" I called the phone and the call rang through. I clicked the red phone button to ignore the call and the email session kept going. It doesn't "kill" the session but it appears to "suspend" it while the call is active.

    I just tried the same thing with my sprint 650, started a check email using chatter and dialed the phone and the call went straight to voicemail.

    I realize these aren't scientific tests, but they do reflect real life situations for me. I didn't realize I would "gain" that feature on the 730 when I got it, but I am very excited about it.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by kevroc
    Just a followup...

    On my 730, I have pretty clear indicators when the connection is "Active" versus "Dormant". I just initiated a download session of email on it and as it was "receiving headers" I called the phone and the call rang through. I clicked the red phone button to ignore the call and the email session kept going. It doesn't "kill" the session but it appears to "suspend" it while the call is active.

    I just tried the same thing with my sprint 650, started a check email using chatter and dialed the phone and the call went straight to voicemail.

    I realize these aren't scientific tests, but they do reflect real life situations for me. I didn't realize I would "gain" that feature on the 730 when I got it, but I am very excited about it.
    I'll admit that EV-DO is one feature that the 730 really beats the 650 up over...but wait 'til the 750!!! Then your 730 will be obsolete. http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...ilies/wink.gif

    But yea, as EV-DO doesn't have enough upload bandwidth...it has to stop the data connection to make sure your voice call gets top priority. I guess it could thoeretically download while you're on a call, but we'll prolly have to wait for Release B of EV-DO (or is that EV-DV?)
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Ahh...so, I'm still not understanding how EV-DV is dead. It seems like EV-DO was, is, and will be the same thing as what you're talking about -- the EV-DO Rev A building ontop of itself by adding VoIP. Since EV-DO has a fairly low upload bandwidth, it makes since that it can't do voice and data simultaneously. Soo...how is the "new" EV-DO any different from the initial EV-DO? I still see EV-DV happening in the future...but it couldn't be that bigga deal, just a minor annoyance.
    The reasons EV-DV will probably be dead are:

    1) EV-DO Rev A will essentially accomplish the desired result in a different manner (by making voice into data)

    2) Expense!!! EV-DV will require both circuit-switching and packet-switching hardware. EV-DO will eventually be able to move to packet-switching only after rolling out VoIP

    3) Sprint has already announced they have dumped EV-DV

    4) Qualcomm has announced dumping EV-DV

    5) TI has announced dumping EV-DV
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  9. slinky's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'll admit that EV-DO is one feature that the 730 really beats the 650 up over...but wait 'til the 750!!! Then your 730 will be obsolete. http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...ilies/wink.gif
    I like the Palm loads and have had them since the IIIx... but how many will wait until that piece comes out and how many want to spend even more money when it eventually does? Personally, I'd love it if you put some of your energy and enthusiasm into writing Palm and convincing them how stupid they are for not simply releasing (or supporting developers to release) the WiFi drivers for the SD cards that are out and available from Palm itself. Unfortunately with the choice of that funky new device and saving $45 per month (and more for EVDO) on Verizon's network, it pays for me to sell the 650 now and buy the Samsung SCH-i730 tomorrow... Help us help them!
  10. #30  
    Uh-oh....you just opened a whole can of worms!
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    The reasons EV-DV will probably be dead are:

    1) EV-DO Rev A will essentially accomplish the desired result in a different manner (by making voice into data)

    2) Expense!!! EV-DV will require both circuit-switching and packet-switching hardware. EV-DO will eventually be able to move to packet-switching only after rolling out VoIP

    3) Sprint has already announced they have dumped EV-DV

    4) Qualcomm has announced dumping EV-DV

    5) TI has announced dumping EV-DV
    Good post. And a thank you to kevroc as well. Your last post was proof enought for me that evdo will suspend active data sessions for voice calls. Thanks.

    EVDV really isnty even worth our keystrokes at this point. It is a cdma technology, and the two biggest CDMA providers in the largest CDMA market have decided to move in a different direction. Even the manufacturers for evdv network and testing equipment have pulled back the reigns. This is not even insider info anymore.

    Simultaneous voice and data (in their current forms- ppp data encapsulation /pstn) are worthless if everything is data (voip/ internet and traditional data)! That is why EVDV is dead! Who cares about traditional voice transport if it doesn't exist!

    -rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  12. slinky's Avatar
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    #32  
    The key about WiFi though is the ability to use the phone as a WiFi enabled phone when traveling in GSM countries.
  13. #33  
    That and it would be nice to be able to surf the web AND still receive a phone call.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    The key about WiFi though is the ability to use the phone as a WiFi enabled phone when traveling in GSM countries.
    WIFI ENABLED PHONE!?!?!? IN OTHER COUNTRIES??!!?!? Where do you travel?? Japan? South Korea?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    WIFI ENABLED PHONE!?!?!? IN OTHER COUNTRIES??!!?!? Where do you travel?? Japan? South Korea?
    I dont travel but are you saying that other countries dont have wifi? I would think that wifi is getting more popular everywhere. Is that unreasonable?
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I dont travel but are you saying that other countries dont have wifi? I would think that wifi is getting more popular everywhere. Is that unreasonable?
    It's UNREASONABLE to believe that it's ubiquitous enough to use it for any REASONABLE amount of time...yea! Maybe in Japan and South Korea, like I said...but I just couldn't imagine it being "the key about WiFi"!!

    Hmm...I guess overseas prices might actually make that the key to WiFi. If rates are that high, I might be willing to stop at a hot spot to talk to my family/friends for an hour or so. But...it's not happening on a Palm device until Palm Linux comes out, and that could be another year and a half or two, even.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by robber
    Simultaneous voice and data (in their current forms- ppp data encapsulation /pstn) are worthless if everything is data (voip/ internet and traditional data)! That is why EVDV is dead! Who cares about traditional voice transport if it doesn't exist!
    Well...I certainly wouldn't care as long as I could get simultaneous voice and data. Is that what I'm getting? Do the packet-based voice calls allow for simultaneous transmission?? I'm guessing that it does as Gecko said "EV-DO Rev A will essentially accomplish the desired result in a different manner". Or does this downfall of EV-DO still stand?

    I'm pretty sure the confusion is almost gone now.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    It's UNREASONABLE to believe that it's ubiquitous enough to use it for any REASONABLE amount of time...yea! Maybe in Japan and South Korea, like I said...but I just couldn't imagine it being "the key about WiFi"!!
    It may be true. I just assumed that other countries would be interested in wifi (specifically for business purposes). I know for work purposes, we send people to hotels that specifically advertise wifi. Its just one of the features businesses are starting to expect (IMO).
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Well...I certainly wouldn't care as long as I could get simultaneous voice and data. Is that what I'm getting? Do the packet-based voice calls allow for simultaneous transmission?? I'm guessing that it does as Gecko said "EV-DO Rev A will essentially accomplish the desired result in a different manner". Or does this downfall of EV-DO still stand?

    I'm pretty sure the confusion is almost gone now.
    Yes, that is exactly what you are getting.

    I cant say for sure exactly how it will work but I imagine it will be very similar to how a lot of the newer IP T1s work. You have a full pipe of internet or data until a phone comes off hook (either for incoming or outgoing calls) The available Internet bandwidth autmatically throttles back x kbps to handle the call. Voice calls always have priority.

    There is a lot of different methodologys they could use to support this "dynamic" bandwidth allocation.

    The great news is that voice calls take a very small amount of bandwidth so the Internet speed on your device should not even take a noticable hit when you are on a call.

    -rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I like the Palm loads and have had them since the IIIx... but how many will wait until that piece comes out and how many want to spend even more money when it eventually does? Personally, I'd love it if you put some of your energy and enthusiasm into writing Palm and convincing them how stupid they are for not simply releasing (or supporting developers to release) the WiFi drivers for the SD cards that are out and available from Palm itself. Unfortunately with the choice of that funky new device and saving $45 per month (and more for EVDO) on Verizon's network, it pays for me to sell the 650 now and buy the Samsung SCH-i730 tomorrow... Help us help them!
    Saving 45/mo? Do you mean you can get data on your i730 *without* VZ's exorbitantly priced data plan? As I understood it you need the $45 data plan to use EV-DO at all on VZ, or to use the net at all on a VZ Treo - which is what drives board members here to Sprint.
    How do you find the usability of the i730? Mossberg implied that it's a powerful pda but awkward as a phone since it often requires 2 hands. I've never touched one, that's just what I've read. Impressive bit of hardware by the specs.
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