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  1. #21  
    One other thing I can add, is the 650 is an awesome music player. I have had several Tungstens, the 600, and now the 650. Just today, I really tested the 650 and was BLOWN AWAY by the sound quality. Maybe it was my encoding or my headphones, but the I heard sounds I never hear before. I encode to .ogg with FreeRip and play them in PocketTunes using JVC earbuds.
  2. slinky's Avatar
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       #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Wow...I've got a pretty good idea that you think you know everything when really, you don't know jack. Ignorance might be bliss, but occasionaly you're gonna need to listen (or read in this case) to what the wiser and more experienced are telling you.
    You wouldn't be talking about yourself? Well, obviously not because I said I owned the Treo 650 for a day and realized very quickly some of the glaring differences that I wanted to point out. Apparently you aren't reading.

    5 hrs versus 6 hrs ain't that big of a deal...not "far more" in my opinion but the trade-offs that you noted are worth it to me. I'd spare that hour for landline quality phone calls every day of the week. Also, I'd challenge you to find another cell phone with 5 hrs of talk time. I only know of one other with...RAMPBLING SNIPPED
    You really should read before embarrassing yourself like this. I said I have a VERIZON phone and the battery life is 150 minutes versus 250 minutes (at least.) Who is telling whom to read?

    2 words: Firmware Update!
    Not for the Verizon phone, which is what I am talking about.

    A wrist strap?? Are you kidding me?? What percentage of cell phones come with wrist straps?? I don't disagree that the 650's as slippery as a fish, but the solution would be rubber or that egrips ****...it's a phone, man (or woman)!!
    Many PDA phones come with wrist straps. Every Samsung phone PDA phone does, even the Sprint ones. But then again, you should already know that.

    If you think all of the reasons for upgrading that I list below minus the price that you can sell your "incredible" 600 for equals $400...you need to go take some elementary arithmatic or perhaps learn the value of these new features.
    Once again... I said "Verizon." Being obnoxious is not helping the fact that you aren't reading.

    Are you really the type of person that can't work with the lite versions?? What do you do? BTW, what is it that Snapper can do for you that Versamail can't?? (not trying to start a holy war, just a personal question for the slinkster)
    Sure you are trying to start a holy war and I'm not going to go for your flaming baiting. Simple answer. Educate yourself. There are several good threads here that will explain why someone might prefer Snapper over Versa, which is also an acceptable solution.

    In conclusion my post is regarding the Verizon Wireless upgrade to the Treo 650 NOT the Sprint. As I said, there are a number of improvements, I'm very happy to have gotten one for free. I don't think many Treo 600 Verizon users will think it's worth it to spend $400 PLUS a new TWO year contract to have to WAIT TWO YEARS until they can get the next upgrade to the next Treo PLUS buying all new accessories. Thus if you upgrade for $400 or even $450, you have to think about missing the next model -- or shell out full retail price.

    Read before you flame. Thank you.
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       #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost
    I recently upgraded my Verizon 600 to the 650. Can't believe how good it is, especially after seeing so many threads about problems people are having. My theory is that Verizon delayed their 650 to make sure they had a stable phone.
    Definitely not -- some of their other phones were a total catastrophe. The "we delay our phones to give you QUALITY" is marketing nonsense. They delayed the sale of the 650 because they had a HUGE inventory of 600s that they are still trying to get rid of.

    In any case, the benefits of the 650 are the screen, the bluetooth (didn't know how great it was until I started using it), the speed (noticably quicker than the 600, no delays that I have seen), the extra buttons for home and menu are awesome, the removeable battery (haven't used it yet, but nice option), the keyboard lights, and personally, I like how the new favorites work on the phone.
    I don't disagree. I really like the new screen. Bluetooth is OK but only if it really provides you with significant benefit and my thought is that WiFi is far more useful. Speed, yes although the 600 was extremely acceptable. The home and menu buttons are relocated, not new. The keyboard is good and I liked the way the old favorites worked because it was one keypress instead of many.

    I'm wondering -- how much did you pay to upgrade and how long is your service contract? My benefit was that I didn't have to upgrade my contract and I'm still entitled to a new phone when the next generation comes out. I'm wondering how many will think that this upgrade is worth $500+ (accessories too) AND a two year contract with the possibility of losing the ability to have a subsidized upgrade to the next version, perhaps the 700.

    IMHO, waiting for the 700 and having that be the next available subsidized upgrade is probably the best way for many to go on Verizon.

    In summary, look how long it took for Windows to be a stable OS. (Some say it still is not, but in general, XP is stable). Palm improves Treos each time they release one. Sure, the 650 is not perfect, but is is the best smartphone/pda out there.[/QUOTE]
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       #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by gapost
    One other thing I can add, is the 650 is an awesome music player. I have had several Tungstens, the 600, and now the 650. Just today, I really tested the 650 and was BLOWN AWAY by the sound quality. Maybe it was my encoding or my headphones, but the I heard sounds I never hear before. I encode to .ogg with FreeRip and play them in PocketTunes using JVC earbuds.
    I think they are similar in quality and the 600 was surprisingly decent. The benefit I've noticed is slightly quicker/responsiveness of the 650. I agree with you there are benefits, this one less than the others.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    You wouldn't be talking about yourself? Well, obviously not because I said I owned the Treo 650 for a day and realized very quickly some of the glaring differences that I wanted to point out. Apparently you aren't reading.
    Yea dude, I was talking about myself. HAHAHA! Great come back though. Anyway, I most certainly did read every friggin' word you wrote and responded directly to each point as I'm about to do again. Also, congrats on very quickly realizing these glaring differences that a billion other people have already friggin' realized. You're one in a million. If you don't remember, your initial post stated that the answer for most people on whether they should upgrade or not was "definitely no" as if you KNEW IT ALL. Sorry, I musta misread that.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    You really should read before embarrassing yourself like this. I said I have a VERIZON phone and the battery life is 150 minutes versus 250 minutes (at least.) Who is telling whom to read?
    I'm telling you to read, jackarse. What is this the second time in one thread?? At least you coulda made it to another thread before I had to tap my keys down your throat. My comments were not carrier related. I made a simple reply to your comment about how "GSM has far more battery life". I said: "5 hrs versus 6 hrs ain't that big of a deal...not "far more" in my opinion"...then I also "challenged you to find another cell phone with 5 hrs of talk time" (I chose 5 instead of 6 because you said you had the Verizon phone, remember?) which I'm still waiting for. I commented about one other from Sprint that I knew of because I am a Sprint customer; I love Sprint, in fact. I wish I could marry them...but Nextel beat me to it...the *****. Also, back to that 'rithmatic problem I asked you to fix. 5 hrs * 60 min./1 hr = 300 min; 300 min. + 60 min. = 360 min....leads to 300 min. versus 360 min. not 150 versus 250. My battery lasts a LONG time without needing to be recharged. Like others have said...I've never fallen below 30 or 40 percent. *That's too much typing about battery life, sorry.*

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Not for the Verizon phone, which is what I am talking about.
    My mistake, I coulda sworn I saw a thread title about Verizon users being able to use the 1.12 update...but since I don't have Verizon I didn't bother to read it. But since I'm so ignorant of Verizon details lemme rephrase my comment..."5 words: WAIT for a firmware update!" Sorry, it's not my fault you picked a company that chooses to delay the release of phones by 6-8 months....you even said it yourself, that "we delay our phones to give you QUALITY" is marketing nonsense." Verizon customers are usually the wealthier of the bunch...not particularly the smartest, like Sprint customers (heh...j/k), but if I were in charge of releasing phones for a cellular agency (especially a conservative agency), I'd have to admit I wouldn't have released the Treo 650 like Sprint did. I was too anxious though since I still had the 300 and the battery life was atrocious on that thing...so I could live with the minor problems like the memory allocation problem since I only had 16MB on the 300 and voice quality problem. The jump from the 300 to the 650 was like the Millenium Falcon going into Hyperspeed -- I ended up someplace completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Many PDA phones come with wrist straps. Every Samsung phone PDA phone does, even the Sprint ones. But then again, you should already know that.
    Still waiting for the answer to "What percentage of cell phones come with wrist straps?" There's a lot more companies out there besides Samsung ya know. Just 'cause that's all you've prolly dealt with before doesn't mean that's the only way it is. No, I didn't know that "every Samsung phone PDA phone" came with a wrist strap. It's still beyond me why they would waste all that material though....I know a few people with Samsung phones and they just slide it into their pocket (or purse) just like I do with my 650....I'm prolly the only person who's dropped their 650 more than 10 times, and the thing still works like it did on day one....it's slippery, but it's more durable than you'd imagine.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Once again... I said "Verizon." Being obnoxious is not helping the fact that you aren't reading.
    I'm not sure what your Verizon branded phone has to do with my math, but which part did you not understand, bro? You said "If a $400 upgrade is worth it for you to view pictures better, then I think you'd probably fall within the minority" (not to mention that she said much more than pictures, btw - go learn to read for comprehension...you've got some kinda selective reading problem, also on top of that mathematics thing I'm gonna have to talk to your tutor about). I says, "If you think all of the reasons for upgrading that I list below minus the price that you can sell your "incredible" 600 for equals $400...you need to go take some elementary arithmatic or perhaps learn the value of these new features."

    Now, here we go backwards $400 (the price you paid w/contract...and don't try to pull how you're tied down because you know you enjoy that $150 that Verizon gives you back with ANY and ALL phones & providers...we all suffer the wrath of contracts) MINUS $300 (the going rate for a Verizon 600 on eBay) EQUALS $100 (the cost for you to upgrade to that beautiful hi-res screen, bluetooth, the better keyboard, the better placement of home and menu keys, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.!!! To make it clearer, $400 - $300 = $100. It cost a normal customer $100 to upgrade...not $400!!

    P.S. - the definition of obnoxious is according to Google: "objectionable: causing disapproval or protest" You caused me to disapprove of and protest your 3.5 outta 5 ranking. You is obnoxious, honkie...and ign'nt!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Sure you are trying to start a holy war and I'm not going to go for your flaming baiting. Simple answer. Educate yourself. There are several good threads here that will explain why someone might prefer Snapper over Versa, which is also an acceptable solution.
    No I wasn't tryint to start a holy war, that's why I specifically stated it for other Snappermail/Versamail users that would love to rip my question to shreds. The question was for you who prolly doesn't have a "religious" preference in the email apps. I'm also still waiting for your reply to what Snappermail provides for you that Versamail doesn't. BEWARE!! I'll get the moderators to check all the Snappermail vs Versamail threads you're going to want to plaguarize from.

    And I'd consider myself fairly educated for a po' white Mississippian (yea, I wear shoes and we have plumbing) that made it into Tulane.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    In conclusion my post is regarding the Verizon Wireless upgrade to the Treo 650 NOT the Sprint. As I said, there are a number of improvements, I'm very happy to have gotten one for free. I don't think many Treo 600 Verizon users will think it's worth it to spend $400 PLUS a new TWO year contract to have to WAIT TWO YEARS until they can get the next upgrade to the next Treo PLUS buying all new accessories. Thus if you upgrade for $400 or even $450, you have to think about missing the next model -- or shell out full retail price.
    Listen here buddy, I don't give a rats behind what carrier you use. I saw it in your initial post, remember?? I'm the one that can read!!

    Even though I don't like you, lemme give you some advice. Don't upgrade the next phone 'cause it's still gonna have OS 5. There is no hardware upgrade that could possibly provide you with as much sustenance as the software upgrade of OS 6. Ahh, Nevermind...go ahead and upgrade to this year's model, and the year after, and the year after. Brilliant idea. I'm waiting on the Treo 2000...due sometime last year.

    Also, concerning another of your comments directed toward somebody else: "Bluetooth is OK but only if it really provides you with significant benefit and my thought is that WiFi is far more useful."

    Well, considering 5 hrs of battery life isn't enough for you, I don't see why the heck you'd be using Wifi? Not unless you use that bulky sled with battery which you can use with the 650. Bluetooth (and UWB in the future) belongs on phones, not wifi....at least not until they have much better battery life and OS 6. Anyway, since you DO have Bluetooth and NOT wifi, why not check out the reverse DUN thread (LINK: http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=64496) and get wifi speeds while you're within couple hundred feet distance of a CLASS ONE usb adapter without the battery drain of wifi or bulk of a sled. I mentioned it earlier, but of course you already knew that...jeez, people like you make me wanna hurl.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Read before you flame. Thank you.
    All the time. Your welcome.

    P.S. - Waiting for your responses to my questions, sugar!

    P.P.S. (or is it P.S.S? thinkin' the first one)- This has got to be the longest post I've made...Thanks for making it all worth while, slinky! I hope you appreciate the great tips I gave you...like the tutor one. Reading and mathematics are ever so important in such an intelligent society.
    Last edited by grndslm; 07/04/2005 at 02:59 AM.
  6. #26  
    P.P.S. - If you're still interested...I'd still bet your 650 that you won't be calling the 600 incredible after you use your new phone for a week or two.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fender Doc
    I hope the next Treo is a combination of the following:
    - Treo
    Pretty likely... but which one and what components....?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fender Doc
    - iPod
    Treos are getting to the point that they will only work on one machine without wiping the entire memory. Give PalmOne time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fender Doc
    - LifeDrive
    Gawd, I hope not... tiny toggle switch to turn on, volitile internal hard drive, barely any real RAM, no hardware access to the volume on a MULTIMEDIA device, pitiful seconds of lag time to do nearly ANYTHING... They were apparently too busy spending Thirty Million Dollars removing three letters from their corporate name to put much thought into the basics of usability on the LifeDrive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fender Doc
    We will all have to patiently wait to see what Palm has for us.
    My bets are on more of the same bungling they've demonstrated the past few years.

    ...But my eternal optimism for Palm devices continues to let hope spring eternal they will get their act together before totally destroying what is left of the best PDA/SmartPhone ever created.

    "Fool me once, shame on me; Fool me twice, won't get fooled again."
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    P.P.S. - If you're still interested...I'd still bet your 650 that you won't be calling the 600 incredible after you use your new phone for a week or two.
    I've been living with the quirks of the 650 for over a month now, here's a few of what I miss about the 600:

    - ability to sync Tasks and Calendar with Outlook (650 datamangler issue)

    - the 1-2MB of RAM (and programs I had to dump to fit the 650).

    - the speediness of the 600, (yes even with the latest 650 firmware)

    - My $200 investment in accessories I dumped for nearly no money, and am still in the process of repurchasing in 650-compatible versions.

    - compatibility of a few apps that still haven't been updated for the 650 changes, such as launcherX and Callfilter.

    - Better battery life with the 600

    - The ability to reset the phone in my car with less chance of an accident pulling off a damn mucky battery cover...

    True, the Bluetooth and Hi-Res are nice, and the main reason I put up with all the problems of the Treo 650. Plus, I figured that MAYBE PalmOne/Palm (or whatever they want to be called) has FINALLY settled on the connector they want to use for a while and I'll have to upgrade everything anyway...

    But PalmOne made so many stupid mistakes on the Treo 650 that it can't be repeated enough that after one day of using the device the same problems are obvious to nearly every Treo user. PalmOne's paid employees and/or system put this device on the market with glaring problems obvious within a day to an average upgrader. THEN they berated us as unreasonable "power users" for expecting to "upgrade" from the 600 and not have to throw away 40% of our programs in RAM. While dissing us for pointing out the obvious, they take our findings and start patching the OS best they can to eventually recover enough memory to make it "close enough" to a lateral upgrade to put up with it.

    This thread may repeat an "old" story, but 7-1/2 months later new Treo 650 users are still shocked at the lackluster "upgrade" the 650 was from the 600, even WITH the current firmware.....

    If I were Palm/One, I'd be more concerned with THAT then paying Thirty Million Dollars to remove a 3-letter appendage from my corporate name..........
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    I've been living with the quirks of the 650 for over a month now, here's a few of what I miss about the 600:

    - ability to sync Tasks and Calendar with Outlook (650 datamangler issue)
    Sorry...I don't use Outlook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    - the 1-2MB of RAM (and programs I had to dump to fit the 650).
    Ahh...the fault of the Non-volatile flash system! Well, not really fault, but the initial drawback. I'd prolly be pissed at that too had I not dropped my 600 and broken the screen only to find out that Sprint hadn't really signed me up for a "new" account and still considered the last 2 defects of the Treo 300 on this new account. Totally ripped me off, sending me back to my Treo 300, which only had 16 megs of ram...the estimated amount that the Sprint Treo 650 initially had. But coming from a 300 that had a battery life of 1 hr talk time and no NVFS...I lost everything from my battery completely draining. I flipped when I plugged it in to find my phone "magically" hard-reset itself. NVFS is a BIG upgrade feature to me, all normal cell phones have it...don't think many (if any) other smartphones have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    - the speediness of the 600, (yes even with the latest 650 firmware)
    I certainly remember the 600 being quick, but not quicker than the 650 with update. Again, the fault of NVFS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    - My $200 investment in accessories I dumped for nearly no money, and am still in the process of repurchasing in 650-compatible versions.
    That's the name of the game, though - capitalism. Everybody's gotta make as many bucks as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    - compatibility of a few apps that still haven't been updated for the 650 changes, such as launcherX and Callfilter.
    Heard callfilter had a beta out that worked. I haven't use it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    - Better battery life with the 600
    Odd....well, maybe not too odd considering the newer features like brighter transreflective screen, brighter keyboard, bluetooth, and faster processor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    - The ability to reset the phone in my car with less chance of an accident pulling off a damn mucky battery cover...
    You can't use Crash for freezes, and PowerUp for non-freeze resets?? I've maybe needed to reset using the stylus like once. (BTW, keep your eyes on the road...try learning to use one hand and no eyes to pull the battery off...it can be done, Luke, use the force!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    True, the Bluetooth and Hi-Res are nice, and the main reason I put up with all the problems of the Treo 650. Plus, I figured that MAYBE PalmOne/Palm (or whatever they want to be called) has FINALLY settled on the connector they want to use for a while and I'll have to upgrade everything anyway...
    Athena connector for life!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    But PalmOne made so many stupid mistakes on the Treo 650 that it can't be repeated enough that after one day of using the device the same problems are obvious to nearly every Treo user. PalmOne's paid employees and/or system put this device on the market with glaring problems obvious within a day to an average upgrader. THEN they berated us as unreasonable "power users" for expecting to "upgrade" from the 600 and not have to throw away 40% of our programs in RAM. While dissing us for pointing out the obvious, they take our findings and start patching the OS best they can to eventually recover enough memory to make it "close enough" to a lateral upgrade to put up with it.
    Again, what's the name of the game?? MONEY!! Why pay for test groups when the power users will pay to be your guinea pigs (and most of them will like it)??? I'm sure they had to have some kind of test group, just doesn't mean they were all that thorough or even semi-intelligent.

    Also, might I remind you...this was P1's first true hands on experience with designing a phone. I still say they did a pretty nice job considering they're still forced to use OS 5 (I'm sure the reason for way more than half of the complaints of the 650) and will be for the next year and a half or so. DANGIT...I prolly will be switching to a Windows-based phone sooner than I expect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    This thread may repeat an "old" story, but 7-1/2 months later new Treo 650 users are still shocked at the lackluster "upgrade" the 650 was from the 600, even WITH the current firmware.....
    Do you have the same upgrade I have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    If I were Palm/One, I'd be more concerned with THAT then paying Thirty Million Dollars to remove a 3-letter appendage from my corporate name..........
    I agree to a point. Like I said above...it's all about the money. I'm sure PalmOne spent pretty good marketing money for research that found out NOBODY excluding people who own PalmOne products know who or what PalmOne is all about. People are constantly asking me who makes my phone...I respond "PalmOne"...they say, "WHO?!?" You can mention Palm Pilot or Palm...and instantly everybody's on the same page. So now when somebody asks who makes your phone, you say "Palm", and they'll prolly remember to go look it up online...increasing the revenue and profit for Palm. Doesn't seem like too bad of an idea to me considering their paying engineers to do engineering work and marketers to do marketing work. That's business for ya.

    Personally, I thought PalmOne was a great name when the Palm HW division and Handspring merged. It showed how important convergence devices were to their lineup. Eventually, ONE day, everybody's going to have ONE device to control every thing they own...all music, all movies, all pictures, all PIM features, all communication, etc....it makes sense because a multi-tasking OS on a touchscreen handheld with a powerful processor WILL eventually do it all better than the dedicated devices. It's inevitable. Jeff Hawkins, creator of the Palm Pilot and Handspring, the company that created the Treo, sees it happening and I've gotta admit, he's convinced me. Not only is it logical, but it's so incredibly cost efficient as well. Tons of people are trying to develop the $100 computer for the undeveloped countries....but Palm has the solution and they prolly don't even know it. I predict that Jeff's next feat is to develop a chip to attach to people's brains so they don't even need to remember to carry their phone....also makes it easier for the government to control you....HAHAHAHAHA. Man, I've so been getting off-topic lately...like, way off-topic. Sorry, folks.
    Last edited by grndslm; 07/04/2005 at 04:32 AM.
  10. slinky's Avatar
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       #30  
    Joad, I hear you and agree. Other than fanboys who are insecure about pointing out any of the issues in their "greatest" gadget, I think many upgraders probably feel the same way.

    What is sad is that Palm is becoming the GM of the PDA industry. It's as though they had success with the Treos and have turned off listening to consumers or anyone else. Not a good policy, especially when their glaring mistakes (e.g. the RAM) will significantly annoy the users they really care about -- the corporate users. Having to buy all new accessories is ludicrous and, even worse, it was immediately obvious just how bad the AC adapter and data cable are. Nothing worse than enraging an IT director who has to expend more money from his budget to buy these accessories and also constantly manage the process of replacing cables.

    Since probably an overwhelming majority of people (definitely corporate) use Outlook, the datamangler issue is a real problem. I was unaware of it but so far sync seems to work for me. Personally, I think consumers can be happy with their devices but should be vocal with regard to unwarranted deficiences and let Palm know that the examples you give will not be tolerated and that we will jump to PPC as it closes the gap despite any of their "perceived loyalties."
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