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  1.    #1  
    I can't read one more good thing about the treo without writing this. People ask me all the time what I don't like about it so now I'll just send them the link to this. by the way, I realize I'm about to get flamed, this is my opinion.. and thats the greatest and worst thing about opinions, you can't argue an opinion, if you could it would be fact. I'll try and present the facts here but I'm sure my opinion is going to come out, who knows you might like the fact that your phone soft resets for no reason. And maybe people always saying "what, I can't understand you" is what 'in your opinion' is good voice quality, who knows... but like a nose (P.G. Rated), everybody's got an opinion... here's mine.

    The Bad

    1. Outgoing Voice Quality - Horrific, I remember just getting my phone and calling my business partner that I've talked to just about every day for about 10 years now, in other words... he knows how I sound. He didn't know I had gotten a new phone cause I was gonna be the first to get the treo (moved from a nokia). First thing out of his mouth was... "hey where are you?.... you sound kinda muffled". That was the first experience.. MANY MANY other people after that have said the same thing.

    2. Dropped calls - This one is gonna be argued I'm sure, but the 'fact' is.. I've lived in the same place and driven the same route for years with many different phones, you can say its the coverage area all you want, but the TREO is the only phone that drops my calls probably at least 1 a day (I average about 5,000 min/month).

    3. Reception - oh man here's a big one. I own a business and I'm on my cell phone constantly.. I gotta tell you how funny it must have looked when I was talking to a new client trying to land a big deal and I walked into my house and I couldn't hear him all of a sudden (because of course, ONLY with the treo, does it not work in my house very well at all... I guess you could argue its the walls or whatever you want, but again.. every other phone has worked fine). So where was I... awww yes I couldn't hear the client.. so I SPRINTED into the backyard phone in hand and BlueTooth headset on. I ran zigzags around the backyard (I'm not kidding, nor exagerating) until I saw the signal shoot up to perfect, still heard him about every other word. Then of course... dropped call (site section 2). This happens all the time to me, I think the treo knows when I'm talking to someone important, somehow I always get great reception arguing with my girlfriend (if you asked her however, she'd tell you my phone always drops calls when we get in arguments). Which I guess is a PLUS to the treo... if everyone knows your phone sucks, they won't be surprised when the call magically 'drops' if you get in an awkward position or losing battle. But back to the topic at hand...

    4. Missed Calls - You want to talk about one pissed off dude. Thats me when I'm expecting an important call and I never get it only to find out that the party called and it rang and then went to voicemail and I never picked up. Well I NEVER GOT IT. And it would be one thing if it didn't ever ring on their end and just went to voicemail, but if someone's phone rings 5-8 times then goes to voicemail, its almost safe to assume they are not answering. I for one always leave a msg, but not everyone does. Is it unfair to think a phone should ring when its dialed? AGAIN, you can argue reception and carrier details but I'll remind you the TREO is the ONLY phone that has done this in the same areas on the same network on the same band (gsm). even my CDMA phones worked as well by the way. I miss calls all the time.

    5. Soft Resets - No reason, let me repeat that.. NO, ZERO, Reason. I'll look at my phone randomly on my desk during the day and its looks back as if to say 'watch this', and reboots. I just shake my head. I guess I'll go ahead and include the mystery 'light up' feature in this section. Whats the mystery 'light up' feature you ask? Well about 5 times a day I'll notice my phone LIT UP.. and why, I'm guessing it just wanted to say hello.

    6. The Brick - Just a nickname, and I know you should think about this before getting into it and definately invest in a belt clip, in all honesty, this really does not bother me at all.. but I am writing what I don't like about it and I needed a number 6 so here goes... Its too freakin big, its great during business hours, but going downtown, out to eat, (purse if your into that), and having this thing in your pocket on the dance floor, at a restaurant, or ANYWHERE, is just short of FREAKING annoying. I could wear it on the belt clip when I go out at night, but I refuse to be that guy... (sidenote: I've always found it odd how its perfectly acceptable to wear it all day at work no matter where I go as long as I'm working, but if I wear the beltclip out and I'm not working, all of a sudden I'm a geek??? wtf?)

    Thats all I can think of right now but be sure to add anything you guys can think of. Don't get me wrong however and realize this thread is NOT NAMED The Good & The Bad. This is just the Beast, not the 'beauty and the beast'. so no beauty here. I will say there is alot to like about this phone... err scratch that.. about this PDA. i really don't know what I'm going to do when/if I change phones and I don't have my schedule on me all the time. I love the PDA, hate the phone. (though the web/email stuff is kinda kewl, and I like to sync my bank accounts with splash money). Man I might as well go down in flames... I like the Nokia software the best for intuitive use, the motorola for voice quality and the samsung for simplicity. BAM. =-)

    -Cody

    this is a reply you can see at the bottom of page 1, its a good argument. I want to make sure we get both sides here, but this is a good post and not a flame like many others, I like how he presented this as not so much to flame me or prove me wrong, just his opinion against mine.

    Your entitled to your option, so I'm entitled to mine as well. I'm afraid my own facts differ from yours too, and I'll state my differences with the numbers corresponding to yours.

    1. Call quality seemed to be an "iffy" thing with the original software of the phone, but with the current ROM version (on Sprint) I think it is fixed. I have called other people, and they've told me I sounded great, and that they couldn't tell the difference between it and a land line. I have also given my phone to my brother and had him call me on it while I was on a land line, and it sounded perfectly clear to me. No complaints. This was using the phone it self though, no head sets. I have noticed some headsets are better than others. My Jabra 250 people never seem to have a problem hearing me on, but my Scalla 500 head set sometimes people complain that I'm not loud enough. Also, Bluetooth headsets can be influenced by radio interference in the area. Things like wireless routers, microwaves, etc. can have a negative influence on the audio quality of a Bluetooth headset on any phone.

    2. My phone almost never drops calls. I can only remember 1 dropped call in the entire time I have owned the phone (I have owned it close to 6 months).

    3. My reception has been great, and I can still hear the person just fine even if I only have 1 or 2 bars showing. Again, I am on Sprint.

    4. Yes, the Treo does seem to be more sensitive about the software you put on it. It seems that software that isn't written exactly right can make the Treo reset. Most all of the resets I have gotten with the Treo though, have been identifiable to a particular application, and when that application was removed, they no longer happened. The best thing to do is do a hard reset, and start from scratch, one app at a time, making sure you spend 24 hours at least with each app on your phone, making sure that it doesn't reset with that app on the phone. If it does, try running without it. One thing to make uninstalls cleaner will be to get an Uninstall manager. From what I have heard of Windows smart phones though, they can be unstable at times as well.

    One more piece of information though... One app can make it look like another is crashing the system. For instance I had Butler 2.86 running on my phone, and when ever I tried to do a backup with Resco Explorer my phone would reset. I removed Butler 2.86 and then the phone and then Resco Explorer could do backups just fine. Went back and forth several times to make sure that it was Butler being on the phone that really made the difference (as you probably know, Butler is an application that runs in the background, gotta watch out for those). But I emailed Butler support and told them of it, and they told me to update to Butler 3.0, which had changed some of the background handling. Now that i have Butler 3.0 on the phone, Resco Explorer can do its backups without problem! Just a lesson to say watch out for those apps that run in the background. They can be causing a problem when it might look like it's a different app. The Treo can be sensitive to the way different software handles it self, it's true.

    6. I wouldn't want the Treo to be any shorter or any less wide. If it wasn't as wide it wouldn't have as much screen space or key space, and then it would be too small to see or type! I think it's just great in that respect, but I do agree I wish it was lighter and thinner. But The Treo is smaller than most of it's competition! All of the other smart phones that can do similar to what the Treo can, are quite a bit bigger! I usually carry it in my jacket pocket. For what it can do, and everything that's packed into it, it's quite a small device!

    Anyway, I just thought I'd show you the other side of the coin.

    Cheers,
    Jacob H.
    Last edited by codywalker; 06/19/2005 at 04:38 AM.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    The Bad
    Which provider and firmware version are you using? That might help others point out those little tidbits that might help your situation.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  3. #3  
    Cody I'm new here but my first question is..Why would you keep it if doesn't suite your needs?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    6. The Brick - Just a nickname, and I know you should think about this before getting into it and definately invest in a belt clip, in all honesty, this really does not bother me at all.. but I am writing what I don't like about it and I needed a number 6 so here goes...
    You NEEDED a number 6?

    You needed a number six like we needed another rehash of the same shortcomings that have plagued the device from the beginning...

    (p.s...as you say, everyone has an opinion, here is mine)
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    Which provider and firmware version are you using? That might help others point out those little tidbits that might help your situation.
    1.28 Cingular, though I've used every firmware version I know of so far.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    You NEEDED a number 6?

    You needed a number six like we needed another rehash of the same shortcomings that have plagued the device from the beginning...

    (p.s...as you say, everyone has an opinion, here is mine)
    just ordered a motorola razr. we'll see if I like it. I just wanted a post here so that people would know the down sides. no worries though mate.

    -Cody
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    The Bad

    1. Outgoing Voice Quality - Horrific...

    2. Dropped calls -

    3. Reception - oh man here's a big one.

    4. Missed Calls - ...
    Hmmm, this is odd. These are all the problems I had BEFORE my Treo. I have VZW and the reception with my Audiovox four years ago - none in the house. the motorola 120 - only in the kitchen, the Motorola flip I just let go - I could get one bar at different times. With the Treo? I've only dropped one call in the house - when I walked into the bathroom during a storm. Other than that I get at least two bars in the home, and usually three.

    The ringing without you knowing - I've experienced this on every cell phone I've ever used and I believe it's commonly a carrier problem (due to low reception). Same for the losing calls - sometimes it just happens.

    It's odd that you would have never had this problem with any other phone - because even the best out there do tend to lose reception (due to poor signal - even running the microwave can do it - or an overburden on the local towers.

    The muffling could be the headset (if you're using one). I've gotten nothing but raves about the better sound quality from my clients and I'm using the same headset I've always used - a $10 set by Sony I buy by the handfuls at Wal-Mart (I find ways to trash mine about every month or so).

    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    5. Soft Resets - No reason, let me repeat that.. NO, ZERO, Reason. I'll look at my phone randomly on my desk during the day and its looks back as if to say 'watch this', and reboots. I just shake my head. I guess I'll go ahead and include the mystery 'light up' feature in this section. Whats the mystery 'light up' feature you ask? Well about 5 times a day I'll notice my phone LIT UP.. and why, I'm guessing it just wanted to say hello. ...
    I've had this but always in conjunction with something happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    6. The Brick - Just a nickname, and I know you should think about this before getting into it and definately invest in a belt clip, in all honesty, this really does not bother me at all.. but I am writing what I don't like about it and I needed a number 6 so here goes... Its too freakin big, its great during business hours, but going downtown, out to eat, (purse if your into that), and having this thing in your pocket on the dance floor, at a restaurant, or ANYWHERE, is just short of FREAKING annoying. I could wear it on the belt clip when I go out at night, but I refuse to be that guy... (sidenote: I've always found it odd how its perfectly acceptable to wear it all day at work no matter where I go as long as I'm working, but if I wear the beltclip out and I'm not working, all of a sudden I'm a geek??? wtf?)
    No flame intended, but you DO realize there's a full QWERTY keyboard on there? If you wanted a device without a keyboard you could have purchased something else. Sorry, I just don't think you have a real argument with 6. The screen size is good, and the keys are easy for me to use - so although this device is much larger than a phone, ummm, it's NOT just a phone.

    That, and the size of the unit was something you were full well aware of before purchase (and if you ordered without ever seeing one, you shoulda thought to ask the size).


    Pamela
  8. jacobh's Avatar
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    #8  
    Your entitled to your option, so I'm entitled to mine as well. I'm afraid my own facts differ from yours too, and I'll state my differences with the numbers corresponding to yours.

    1. Call quality seemed to be an "iffy" thing with the original software of the phone, but with the current ROM version (on Sprint) I think it is fixed. I have called other people, and they've told me I sounded great, and that they couldn't tell the difference between it and a land line. I have also given my phone to my brother and had him call me on it while I was on a land line, and it sounded perfectly clear to me. No complaints. This was using the phone it self though, no head sets. I have noticed some headsets are better than others. My Jabra 250 people never seem to have a problem hearing me on, but my Scalla 500 head set sometimes people complain that I'm not loud enough. Also, Bluetooth headsets can be influenced by radio interference in the area. Things like wireless routers, microwaves, etc. can have a negative influence on the audio quality of a Bluetooth headset on any phone.

    2. My phone almost never drops calls. I can only remember 1 dropped call in the entire time I have owned the phone (I have owned it close to 6 months).

    3. My reception has been great, and I can still hear the person just fine even if I only have 1 or 2 bars showing. Again, I am on Sprint.

    4. Yes, the Treo does seem to be more sensitive about the software you put on it. It seems that software that isn't written exactly right can make the Treo reset. Most all of the resets I have gotten with the Treo though, have been identifiable to a particular application, and when that application was removed, they no longer happened. The best thing to do is do a hard reset, and start from scratch, one app at a time, making sure you spend 24 hours at least with each app on your phone, making sure that it doesn't reset with that app on the phone. If it does, try running without it. One thing to make uninstalls cleaner will be to get an Uninstall manager. From what I have heard of Windows smart phones though, they can be unstable at times as well.

    One more piece of information though... One app can make it look like another is crashing the system. For instance I had Butler 2.86 running on my phone, and when ever I tried to do a backup with Resco Explorer my phone would reset. I removed Butler 2.86 and then the phone and then Resco Explorer could do backups just fine. Went back and forth several times to make sure that it was Butler being on the phone that really made the difference (as you probably know, Butler is an application that runs in the background, gotta watch out for those). But I emailed Butler support and told them of it, and they told me to update to Butler 3.0, which had changed some of the background handling. Now that i have Butler 3.0 on the phone, Resco Explorer can do its backups without problem! Just a lesson to say watch out for those apps that run in the background. They can be causing a problem when it might look like it's a different app. The Treo can be sensitive to the way different software handles it self, it's true.

    6. I wouldn't want the Treo to be any shorter or any less wide. If it wasn't as wide it wouldn't have as much screen space or key space, and then it would be too small to see or type! I think it's just great in that respect, but I do agree I wish it was lighter and thinner. But The Treo is smaller than most of it's competition! All of the other smart phones that can do similar to what the Treo can, are quite a bit bigger! I usually carry it in my jacket pocket. For what it can do, and everything that's packed into it, it's quite a small device!

    Anyway, I just thought I'd show you the other side of the coin.

    Cheers,
    Jacob H.
    Last edited by jacobh; 06/18/2005 at 10:12 PM.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by jacobh
    Your entitled to your option, so I'm entitled to mine as well. I'm afraid my own facts differ from yours too, and I'll state my differences with the numbers corresponding to yours.

    1. Call quality seemed to be an "iffy" thing with the original software of the phone, but with the current ROM version (on Sprint) I think it is fixed. I have called other people, and they've told me I sounded great, and that they couldn't tell the difference between it and a land line. I have also given my phone to my brother and had him call me on it while I was on a land line, and it sounded perfectly clear to me. No complaints. This was using the phone it self though, no head sets. I have noticed some headsets are better than others. My Jabra 250 people never seem to have a problem hearing me on, but my Scalla 500 head set sometimes people complain that I'm not loud enough. Also, Bluetooth headsets can be influenced by radio interference in the area. Things like wireless routers, microwaves, etc. can have a negative influence on the audio quality of a Bluetooth headset on any phone.

    2. My phone almost never drops calls. I can only remember 1 dropped call in the entire time I have owned the phone (I have owned it close to 6 months).

    3. My reception has been great, and I can still hear the person just fine even if I only have 1 or 2 bars showing. Again, I am on Sprint.

    4. Yes, the Treo does seem to be more sensitive about the software you put on it. It seems that software that isn't written exactly right can make the Treo reset. Most all of the resets I have gotten with the Treo though, have been identifiable to a particular application, and when that application was removed, they no longer happened. The best thing to do is do a hard reset, and start from scratch, one app at a time, making sure you spend 24 hours at least with each app on your phone, making sure that it doesn't reset with that app on the phone. If it does, try running without it. One thing to make uninstalls cleaner will be to get an Uninstall manager. From what I have heard of Windows smart phones though, they can be unstable at times as well.

    One more piece of information though... One app can make it look like another is crashing the system. For instance I had Butler 2.86 running on my phone, and when ever I tried to do a backup with Resco Explorer my phone would reset. I removed Butler 2.86 and then the phone and then Resco Explorer could do backups just fine. Went back and forth several times to make sure that it was Butler being on the phone that really made the difference (as you probably know, Butler is an application that runs in the background, gotta watch out for those). But I emailed Butler support and told them of it, and they told me to update to Butler 3.0, which had changed some of the background handling. Now that i have Butler 3.0 on the phone, Resco Explorer can do its backups without problem! Just a lesson to say watch out for those apps that run in the background. They can be causing a problem when it might look like it's a different app. The Treo can be sensitive to the way different software handles it self, it's true.

    6. I wouldn't want the Treo to be any shorter or any less wide. If it wasn't as wide it wouldn't have as much screen space or key space, and then it would be too small to see or type! I think it's just great in that respect, but I do agree I wish it was lighter and thinner. But The Treo is smaller than most of it's competition! All of the other smart phones that can do similar to what the Treo can, are quite a bit bigger! I usually carry it in my jacket pocket. For what it can do, and everything that's packed into it, it's quite a small device!

    Anyway, I just thought I'd show you the other side of the coin.

    Cheers,
    Jacob H.

    thanks for your post, I'm gonna put add this as "the good", unless you object. I don't want to be the bad guy here, i just want both sides clearly stated. Thanks for your post and not a flame but informative.
  10. pabo's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    1.28 Cingular, though I've used every firmware version I know of so far.
    Cingular 1.28 - wow, when did Cingular release that ? I have 1.05...
  11. #11  
    2 days ago I switched from Cingular (Nokia 6620) to Verizon (Treo 650). I only have one gripe with the 650 (and you never mentioned it, strange enough) - whats up with the freaking bluetooth volume?! its WAY to low even at max setting! My 6620 was prefect in this regard and I can't, for the life of me, find a way to make the Treo's bluetooth audio levels acceptable (I have three bluetooth headsets - Moto hs820, hs850, and logitechs newest one). Cingular's customer service, btw, sucks huge ebola ridden monkey dongs...just another opinion I suppose.
    -Scott
  12. #12  
    OPINION ALERT:

    "Treo650, you're breaking my heart" (aka, Padme to Anakin)




    My goodness, I've never disliked so much something I wanted to like so much.
    Cingular T650
    ...now back to Motorola and a Zire 72!
  13. #13  
    I recently upgraded my Verizon Treo 600 to a 650. I must say, I have not had any of these problems. Good coverage, probably better than my 600. I had a couple of dropped calls, but all cell phones have them. BT volume is good, in fact on a call yesterday, it was so loud I had to turn the volume down. As far as the size, sure, it is larger than a cell phone. But look at what it does. Before my Treo, I was carrying a cell phone, pager, and Palm. Now it is so nice to be able to grab one device.

    Maybe Verizon did a good thing by delaying their deployment of the 650. It seems like a other carriers have had some problems, maybe because they rushed it to market. All I know, is my Verizon 650 is working great. Sorry for your troubles.
  14. #14  
    gapost, which BT headset are you using?
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarasotasun
    gapost, which BT headset are you using?
    I am using the Sony HBH-660. Granted not every call is so loud I have to turn it down, but some are. I don't use the Jabra eargel, just the regular hook that came with it. Very comfortable for me.

    BTY, codywalker, are you having these troubles on the Cingular phone you bought on Ebay? And is this the same one that you forced the firmware upgrade?
  16. jacobh's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarasotasun
    2 days ago I switched from Cingular (Nokia 6620) to Verizon (Treo 650). I only have one gripe with the 650 (and you never mentioned it, strange enough) - whats up with the freaking bluetooth volume?! its WAY to low even at max setting! My 6620 was prefect in this regard and I can't, for the life of me, find a way to make the Treo's bluetooth audio levels acceptable (I have three bluetooth headsets - Moto hs820, hs850, and logitechs newest one). Cingular's customer service, btw, sucks huge ebola ridden monkey dongs...just another opinion I suppose.
    -Scott
    The first versions of the Treo software had this problem. Subsequent versions have fixed it. When I first got my Sprint Treo 650 I had volume issues as well, but after the 1.08 update, the volume in BT was plenty adequate! I'm not sure if Verizon has an update out yet or not, but when they do (if they don't already) then I would suggest you get it, and I think your problems will be solved.

    Cheers,
    Jacob H.
    Last edited by jacobh; 06/20/2005 at 01:30 AM.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    thanks for your post, I'm gonna put add this as "the good", unless you object. I don't want to be the bad guy here, i just want both sides clearly stated. Thanks for your post and not a flame but informative.
    not a problem at all, I agree that I want both sides clearly stated so that people know what they are getting before they get it. I'm sure a good % of people on this forum are potential buyers (I know I was at one time). I would like a post so that they can see both sides of the equation. Thanks much

    -Cody
  18.    #18  
    BTY, codywalker, are you having these troubles on the Cingular phone you bought on Ebay? And is this the same one that you forced the firmware upgrade?[/QUOTE]

    this is a phone I've had, and it is not one from ebay but one from cingular. And problems occured before the patch, still testing the new patch.

    -Cody
  19. #19  
    Your post makes it sound as if almost anyone may experience the problems you cite, but I assure you that's not the case. I've never had any of the problems you noted. Zero, zilch, save the occasional app that caused problems. In fact, I've virtually had no problems at all with my Treo. The only built in app that has caused me problems is Versamail. I just quit using it and selected an alternative. I'm using a Cingular GSM with the original software, i.e., 1.02-CNG that is now unlocked by Cingular.

    I travel extensively and have used my Treo all over the US as well as Europe and Mexico. Overseas, Ive used Cingular's phone/data plan, which is a bit expensive, as well as prepaid Sims and it has always worked well.

    I personally know of nine people (co-workers and acquaintances) with experiences similar to mine and I suspect there are thousands more.

    The Treo has its quirks, but what phone doesn't? As for using it when going out for leisure; eg, dining, dancing, etc. I don't think it was ever designed with that type of use in mind. There are many cheaper alternative camera/wap phones that work far better for those occasions. I went the expensive route and purchased a Razr (on a second line) for this purpose and its one of the best for this IMHO and it only costs me $10 a month for that privilege, which is fairly inexpensive. I just forward my calls to the Razr if needed when using it. The Razr feels about the same as carrying a silver dollar in your pocket. It's a great phone for many purposes, but for me personally I don't like Moto's phone software.

    The Treo 650 is absolutely the best phone/pda I've ever used, bar none.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by codywalker
    just ordered a motorola razr. we'll see if I like it. I just wanted a post here so that people would know the down sides. no worries though mate.

    -Cody
    I have an unlocked RAZR. It's slim and styleish. It synchronizes with Mac OS X really well (except for To Dos). But be warned that it tends to have a poor Radio Frequency in comparison to other Motorola's in my house. It drops calls too - something my unlocked GSM Treo 650 did not do.

    By the way, I use T-Mobile in the San Francisco Bay Area.
    David
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