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  1.    #1  
    Here's a fundamental question about updating firmware in ROM.
    Isn't most data and information (not programs) that we add to the Treo placed into RAM?
    And isn't this RAM backed up by the Treo against loss due to power loss?
    And don't applications store their data, temp files and things they are
    doing 'on the fly' into volatile RAM, not ROM?
    The point is: Why try to minimize the amount of programs in ROM?
    On the contrary, shouldn't we pack as much into ROM as possible to protect
    it (the Apps) from crashes, and to make maximum use of the space there?
    Does unused ROM space essentially go to waste?
    Or is ROM used by the programs, and having minimal ROM left cause a lack
    of volatile memory for program operation? Nothing can write to ROM without
    a firmware upgrade tool right?
    Shouldn't we use the maximum amount of ROM for programs, leaving the maximum amount of RAM free for data, program usage and information?
    I may be suffering from a misunderstanding on this basic point.
    Please enlighten me.

    The ByrdUnit
    The Unit Simulacrum
    The beginning of the New Foundation
  2. #2  
    I don't want to play with custom ROMs, so methinks that my free ROM space is wasted. I wouldn't mind getting a few items off the menus, though.
    NiceGPSuperior1 is a free GPS program, now with the ability to save your map! Get more info here. It's free! If you like this app and want to encourage development, you can donate from the web page link.

    NiceDrudgeReader is a fast, simple reader for The Drudge Report. It is only $0.99, so check it out, too! More info here.

    Search for "Nice" in the app catalog to see all my apps.
  3.    #3  
    EXACTLY how much ROM do we get on the 650?

    Byrd
    The Unit Simulacrum
    The beginning of the New Foundation
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by UnitSimulacrum
    Here's a fundamental question about updating firmware in ROM.
    Isn't most data and information (not programs) that we add to the Treo placed into RAM?
    Everything you add (data and programs) is stored in ram or SD card if you have one and the app supports storing on the card.

    And isn't this RAM backed up by the Treo against loss due to power loss?
    Yes. Sorta. NVFS does not require power to maintain it's contents. This is the only benefit of the NVFS file system. This is not really backed up however. A good SD backup program is a MUST!

    And don't applications store their data, temp files and things they are doing 'on the fly' into volatile RAM, not ROM?
    Sorta correct. There is an area of volitile ram (10Mb I think) that programs actually run in. Stored data, prefrences etc are however stored in the NVFS filesystem.

    The point is: Why try to minimize the amount of programs in ROM?
    On the contrary, shouldn't we pack as much into ROM as possible to protect it (the Apps) from crashes, and to make maximum use of the space there?
    Yes. The idea with the custom rom is to eliminate the useless apps from the rom and place apps you want that would otherwise be in ram into the rom thus saving ram.

    Does unused ROM space essentially go to waste?
    You bettcha.

    Or is ROM used by the programs, and having minimal ROM left cause a lack of volatile memory for program operation?
    Nope.

    Nothing can write to ROM without a firmware upgrade tool right?
    Right.

    Shouldn't we use the maximum amount of ROM for programs, leaving the maximum amount of RAM free for data, program usage and information?
    Yep.

    I may be suffering from a misunderstanding on this basic point.
    Please enlighten me.
    For the most part, you seem to be right on track here.

    HTH

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonylmiller
    I don't want to play with custom ROMs, so methinks that my free ROM space is wasted. I wouldn't mind getting a few items off the menus, though.
    I believe there is an app called Obfuscate that will do this for you. Or, if you have Zlauncher, create a tab called useless, move those items you don't want to see to that tab then hide that tab.

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by UnitSimulacrum
    EXACTLY how much ROM do we get on the 650?

    Byrd
    I think the ROM is 32mb but I could be mistaken on that.

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  7. #7  
    Technically, I think the ROM is 32mb, however, for some reason only a little more than 23mb seems to usable when I've done custom ROMs. I think some of the ROM is used by OS apps that don't seem to reside in the firmware.

    I could be wrong, however....
  8. #8  
    The Treo 650 has internal memory of 32 MB of Rom (it's Flash Rom). In any event, about 9 MB is reserved for sandard software, etc. that is normally inaccesible to user changes, etc. (Some refer to this as Rom.) Only 23 MB is user accesible for storage. (Some refer to this as Ram.) A Shadowmite Custom Rom allows individuals to define the software that is otherwise stored in the normally inaccesible reserve. In this manner, you can remove subpar programs like real player and versamail and replace them with better programs or other add ons directly into the Custom Rom (so long as they fit within the 9 MB reserve memory). At the end of the day, you have removed the programs and annoying Sprint icons that you don't want and now have a Treo that contains only programs that you do want, and you still have 23 MB of user accesible storage.

    While getting rid of unwanted programs and increasing memory efficiency may seem minor in the world of normal computers, when your talking about 32MB total internal memory, this is really a big deal to a lot of users that find themselves running up against memory limits. This is especially notable because not all programs can be stored and run off of the external SD card and many do not like the programs that ship with the 650.
    Last edited by Katway; 06/15/2005 at 08:04 AM.
  9.    #9  
    Thanks everyone! for responding to my question about ROM. It is as I had suspected, and was exactly what I wanted to hear. YES! DO put as many of the programs into ROM as possible. I made and installed my own custom ROM last night, and it is great! I cut out 5.79 Mb in useless and unwanted files (Real Player, Versamail) from the latest v 1.23 Firmware, retaining 12.1 Mb. All of the alternate language files can be cut with no proplem (.deDE, .frFR, itIT, .esES). I'll put up DETAILED instructions on my website when I get a chance. There are some useful clarifications from the already-published instructions. No point in giving the site address yet, I need to get it put together, then I'll post a link in this forum. I added 3.32 Mb back in. My new ROM now has:

    BackUpBuddyVFSPro (YES a necessity-- this saved my ****!)
    eReader
    Filez (kind of redundant with the good file viewing of ZLauncher)
    MMPlayerGUI (Love this player-- getting into ROM solved some issues..)
    MMPlayerLib (...when not in ROM, a couple of white screen bits showed up)
    NeoCal (LOVE this calculator - highly customizable, and very powerful)
    SnapperMail (Recommended by those in this forum)
    ZLauncher (also a necessity recommeded by this forum)
    ZLT_Aquawood_Hi_64I (screen theme for above)

    I am totally loving this new custom ROM! I had been using webdogg's
    Custom ROM 1 - But now I have my own 'way awesome' ROM.
    It takes up less than 16Mb on the T650. The original v1.23 was ~18 mB, so I still have plenty more room to add plenty of new programs. I've got a way to crank out custom ROMs like a PEZ dispenser now (without having to remove the language files every time), so I'll be making a new one whenever I get a new program that I have tried and liked. Shadowmite: You Da MAN! The ROM tool rocks!

    I was at 77% free RAM with webdogg's ROM (www.webdogg.net), now I am at 91% free! Of course my 1 Gb SD card is loaded up with movies, albums, data, etc. 19% free.

    Thanks again for your great input!

    The ByrdUnit
    Last edited by UnitSimulacrum; 06/15/2005 at 08:48 AM.
    The Unit Simulacrum
    The beginning of the New Foundation
  10.    #10  
    Based on the above posts, I made another custom ROM with more programs packed into it. Other programs (in addition to those above) that definitely DO work in ROM are:
    DocsToGO
    Zap!2016

    WARNING! the following files will caused a custom ROM to crash on installation:
    AdobeReader
    Klondike (the Palm solitaire game)
    WordToGo

    Since WordToGo crashed the ROM install, it is likely that the other individual Microsoft Office emulation progs (SheetToGo, etc.) will also crash a ROM install, although the program that calls the sub-programs, DocsToGo, is fine in ROM. Other problematic programs for ROM are listed at the end of 100th Monkey's instructions.

    Now, since I installed the DocsToGo 7 suite, I am down to 73% free RAM (from 91%)

    Okay, it's time to stop customizing ROMs and get back to just using my newly customized Treo!

    BTW, after installing a bunch of different custom ROMs to see which were the pernicious programs, and then using Backup Buddy to restore my databases, my easter egg is still in Power->Prefs...

    The ByrdUnit
    The Unit Simulacrum
    The beginning of the New Foundation
  11. #11  
    FYI - there's a program on the doctogo web site (small executable) that will move most of your D2G stuff onto the card and save a bunch of space. You'll find it if you search TC for it as well...
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ericdfairchild
    FYI - there's a program on the doctogo web site (small executable) that will move most of your D2G stuff onto the card and save a bunch of space. You'll find it if you search TC for it as well...
    Definitely move DocsToGo to SD card. It's a big memory hog.

    See http://support.dataviz.com/support.s...=13395&pid=132
  13.    #13  
    Thanks for the great suggestions. Docs to Go and the associated MS emulation progs definitely take up a lot of space. But for now, I still have plenty of room in RAM, ~15.7 Mb. My real objective is to have my apps installed on the handheld, and save the card for content. That way, I can swap different cards in and out without losing any of my application functionality. I've got a 1 Gb card that is already almost full, with a couple of movies and several albums. I'm going to get several 1Gb and a 2 Gb (when they get around to starting to ship them), and just swap content in and out.
    This forum has definitely provided all the answers and suggestions that allowed me to customize my Treo and fill it with the best apps.
    Thanks again!

    The ByrdUnit
    The Unit Simulacrum
    The beginning of the New Foundation

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