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  1.    #1  
    I don't know if you guys ever noticed, but the Treo Camera can see the light of infra red LEDs that are not visible to the human eye.
    I've attached 2 pictures. 1 is 4 LEDs in the base station of my infra red wireless headphones. This is how I discovered this, as these LEDs are on all of the time when the headset is undocked, I noticed the camera picked up the LEDs when I was playing with it one day.
    The second picture are the 2 LEDs in the top of a TiVo remote control. It took a few attempts but I manage to get a picture of the LEDs just as they were flashing.

    Anyway, see for yourself. Take the treo camera and point it toward a remote and hit the buttons.
    So if the treo camera is sensitive to at least part of the IR spectrum, I wonder how this affects it's light sensitivity when snapping photos.
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  2. #2  
    Kewl. Actually interesting. Thanks for posting that.
  3. #3  
    I used to have a camcorder that did that
    visor deluxe->clie n760->treo 300->treo 600->treo 650 -> treo 700p -> treo 755p
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  4. #4  
    Most, if not all, digital camera and camcorder CCD's can detect IR light.
    .
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    MarkEagle
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  5. holmes4's Avatar
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    #5  
    This is a classic way of seeing whether your remote control is working - view it through the electronic viewfinder of a CCD camera or camcorder.
  6. #6  
    Darn, I thought this thread was going to be about using your Treo to see people naked through their clothing!!!!
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by wcarlson40
    Darn, I thought this thread was going to be about using your Treo to see people naked through their clothing!!!!

    If it did that, it would be sold out everywhere!!! And PalmOne would most definitly recall the 650 then. (That is what Sony did with their High8 cam)
    Palm III > Palm IIIC > Handera 330 > Kyocera 6035 & Sony NR70V > Treo 600 > Treo650 & Palm LifeDrive > Modded LifeDrive w/16gig CF > Palm Pre
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavisjohn
    If it did that, it would be sold out everywhere!!! And PalmOne would most definitly recall the 650 then. (That is what Sony did with their High8 cam)
    Ya, I want me one of those! Any idea where I can get one?
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillin_
    Ya, I want me one of those! Any idea where I can get one?
    If you do find someone who has one, you will pay 3x the retail price (If you are lucky).
    Palm III > Palm IIIC > Handera 330 > Kyocera 6035 & Sony NR70V > Treo 600 > Treo650 & Palm LifeDrive > Modded LifeDrive w/16gig CF > Palm Pre
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh
    I don't know if you guys ever noticed, but the Treo Camera can see the light of infra red LEDs that are not visible to the human eye.
    I've attached 2 pictures. 1 is 4 LEDs in the base station of my infra red wireless headphones. This is how I discovered this, as these LEDs are on all of the time when the headset is undocked, I noticed the camera picked up the LEDs when I was playing with it one day.
    The second picture are the 2 LEDs in the top of a TiVo remote control. It took a few attempts but I manage to get a picture of the LEDs just as they were flashing.

    Anyway, see for yourself. Take the treo camera and point it toward a remote and hit the buttons.
    So if the treo camera is sensitive to at least part of the IR spectrum, I wonder how this affects it's light sensitivity when snapping photos.
    I've tested and it is true with both 600 and 650
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by JFMw
    I've tested and it is true with both 600 and 650
    I believe every CCD based camera can see IR. I know my Sony NR70V, Cybershot, My Intel webcam, and my new FinePix S7000.
    Palm III > Palm IIIC > Handera 330 > Kyocera 6035 & Sony NR70V > Treo 600 > Treo650 & Palm LifeDrive > Modded LifeDrive w/16gig CF > Palm Pre
  12. #12  
    Showed the kids, and their mind just flipped. Kind of weird........
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

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  13. #13  
    it is true that most digital camera sensors have this ability. Most of the time the vendor includes a little plastic IR filter that prevents this phenomena. When removed and replaced with a "visible light" filter (such as a dark film negative) the camera actually becomes a full-blown night vision camera. You can find full instructions over at http://www.hackaday.com.
  14. holmes4's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavisjohn
    If you do find someone who has one, you will pay 3x the retail price (If you are lucky).
    Really? I never knew. I have the very model that caused this ruckus, the CCD-TRV8. And no, Sony did not recall it. They did modify the production run to disable the NightShot feature in bright light. (Mine is from before the change.)

    This was a whole lot of nonsense, anyway. The idea was that in NightShot mode, a filter was slid over the sensor blocking out most visible light, letting IR through and allowing you to take video in the dark. This part does work, and remarkably well. The camcorder even has an IR illuminator.

    Anyway, if you have someone out in the sun, wearing thin clothing, the camcorder would "see" the IR radiating from their skin, so you would see that rather than the fabric. It didn't work all that well, according to some experiments I saw at the time.

    Now, as it happens, I'm going to Vegas tomorrow for a convention and bringing the V8 with me. I may get a chance to do this experiment for myself, but I don't have high hopes for it.

    As for 3X the retail price - the auctions I have seen on eBay don't seem to reflect that, though none I have seen indicate if their particular unit was made prior to the design change.
  15. #15  
    Some place there is a web site based on the nighshot Sony's and their ..ahem unique capabilities. I recall also that one can purchase filters and disable the sensor (with tape?...) on "fixed" nightshot cameras and others and have the capability. Poor Sony took a bit of flack for that back then, even if the "see through" was not that big of a deal.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by holmes4
    Really? I never knew. I have the very model that caused this ruckus, the CCD-TRV8. And no, Sony did not recall it. They did modify the production run to disable the NightShot feature in bright light. (Mine is from before the change.)

    This was a whole lot of nonsense, anyway. The idea was that in NightShot mode, a filter was slid over the sensor blocking out most visible light, letting IR through and allowing you to take video in the dark. This part does work, and remarkably well. The camcorder even has an IR illuminator.

    Anyway, if you have someone out in the sun, wearing thin clothing, the camcorder would "see" the IR radiating from their skin, so you would see that rather than the fabric. It didn't work all that well, according to some experiments I saw at the time.

    Now, as it happens, I'm going to Vegas tomorrow for a convention and bringing the V8 with me. I may get a chance to do this experiment for myself, but I don't have high hopes for it.

    As for 3X the retail price - the auctions I have seen on eBay don't seem to reflect that, though none I have seen indicate if their particular unit was made prior to the design change.
    Ok not an official recal... However if you take it in for repair (Reguardless what the repair is) they will impliment the modification in later modles to your camera. As for the $ as with anything on e-bay that is really subjective. When the IR "Issue" was first discovered they are 3 on e-bay for 3-5x retail price. (With full adverts saying that it was the model with the "Super IR" function.)

    However yes conditions have to be JUST right in order for it to film "Through Clothing". And when you do get it to work, it is not like their clothing dissappears. All you get are contures, no major detail. And you still see the clothing as well. It looks kind of like a superimposed picture.
    Palm III > Palm IIIC > Handera 330 > Kyocera 6035 & Sony NR70V > Treo 600 > Treo650 & Palm LifeDrive > Modded LifeDrive w/16gig CF > Palm Pre
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by holmes4
    Really? I never knew. I have the very model that caused this ruckus, the CCD-TRV8.
    Mine is the Sony CCD-TRV815.

    Does that model include the issue?
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  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillin_
    Ya, I want me one of those! Any idea where I can get one?

    I have one of those "x-ray" hi8's, and still use it. Make me an offer, I'm certainly due for a new one.
  19. #19  
    I haven't looked at the entire thread yet, but ... here goes.

    This is very common among digital cameras. Many higher-end digicams will actually have a filter placed in front of the CCD (called a "hot mirror" filter) that will block passage of IR, since the sensor's sensitivity to IR can bleed through into photos recorded in the visual range only.

    If you want to have a lot of fun (though I don't know how well this would work with a simple camera like a cell phone camera) you can buy an IR filter that actually allows only IR to pass through and take infrared-only photos!

    Here's a site with some more info & some examples:

    Invisible Light - Infrared Photography by Andy Finney

    Note that if you decide to try this, you may or may not be able to see an image through the viewfinder (some electronic viewfinders will still show you an image, but SLRs with optical viewfinders can't show you anything while the filter is mounted on the lens), so you may have to compose your shot, then place the filter over the lens, then take your photo. Furthermore, the filter causes several "stops" of light to be lost, so a longer exposure will be required to get the same shot, which may make filtered IR shots with a PDA nearly impossible (unless you don't mind camera shake!) since it's kind of hard to prop up a PDA-phone and they generally don't have self-timers or remote controls of any kind.
    Last edited by Buran; 06/16/2005 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Adding a bit more info
  20. #20  
    If you had a high intensity IR light and shined it on someone, and took a pic w/ur Treo, then would that enable "x-ray vision?" I'm not sure of the IR details so maybe one of you could debunk this theory (or not).

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