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  1. #21  
    Better use or try SureWave Mobile Connect from JP Mobile
    www.surewave.com, i think they are offering a free 30 day trial.
  2. agi
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    #22  
    SureWave - Exchange only.
  3. #23  
    Also seems to install all it's own databases. Been there, done that, uninstalled it. I want solutions that integrate with the built-in applications.
  4. agi
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    #24  
    Me too, but to tell you the truth I like the hosted solution idea. No worry about the IT, hosting it yourself, etc just plain works (or does it?).
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mblank
    nrosser - What's ironic, of course, is that IMAP/SSL is no less secure than OWA...

    Marc
    MB - I don't have enough detailed knowledge of SSL, etc to have an intelligent dialog with you on this, but - if your point is correct (assuming it is), tell me this: Why are so many IT/server admin guys adamant about NOT opening an IMAP port on their Exchange/Domino/Groupwise servers? Is it that they've bought into the BES kool-aid about not having to open an outbound port on their firewall?

    I'm genuinely curious on this. Cuz I've talked with lots of IT folks and there seems to be a true reluctance to open an IMAP port. Clue us in.
  6. #26  
    Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    "Ask your IT guy if punching a hole through your firewall is a 'pro'"

    My IT "guy" is an Electronic Messaging group with hundreds of people, all totally stressed out trying to keep a vast network of Exchange servers plus Blackberry servers running all around the world, and totally uninterested in even discussing adding anything to the environment that might destabilize things. So anything I can do that doesn't involve talking to them is indeed a
    'pro"...provided that it's not really dangerous.

    Which leads me to the difference between what I said, "punches through the firewall" and what you paraphrased, "punches a hole in the firewall": Those are very different ideas. These desktop redirectors don't open any new ports; their data rides on top of HTTP through the same proxy that IE uses, and this doesn't violate any firewall rules. There is, of course, a vulnerability when data passes through someone else's server (Verizon's, in this case), but that's more theoretical than real as long as the server owner is a reputable company.

    To Nrosser's point about the mini-server: You're right, except in my case about the part where we put the box in the server room, protected from outages. That would put us right back in the mode of jumping through (flaming) hoops to meet IT standards. For a smaller company, though, it's a terrific solution.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by tangible
    These desktop redirectors don't open any new ports; their data rides on top of HTTP through the same proxy that IE uses, and this doesn't violate any firewall rules. There is, of course, a vulnerability when data passes through someone else's server (Verizon's, in this case), but that's more theoretical than real as long as the server owner is a reputable company.
    Well... reputation only gets you so much, and that doesn't mean their systems can't be hacked.

    But this raised another question for me... in the redirector model, what are the endpoints of the encryption? One would expect that the data is encrypted at the redirector and not decrypted until it reaches the client device. Is this *not* the case? Is the data flowing freely on the carrier's network?
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by tangible
    Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    "Ask your IT guy if punching a hole through your firewall is a 'pro'"

    My IT "guy" is an Electronic Messaging group with hundreds of people, all totally stressed out trying to keep a vast network of Exchange servers plus Blackberry servers running all around the world, and totally uninterested in even discussing adding anything to the environment that might destabilize things. So anything I can do that doesn't involve talking to them is indeed a
    'pro"...provided that it's not really dangerous.

    Which leads me to the difference between what I said, "punches through the firewall" and what you paraphrased, "punches a hole in the firewall": Those are very different ideas. These desktop redirectors don't open any new ports; their data rides on top of HTTP through the same proxy that IE uses, and this doesn't violate any firewall rules. There is, of course, a vulnerability when data passes through someone else's server (Verizon's, in this case), but that's more theoretical than real as long as the server owner is a reputable company.

    To Nrosser's point about the mini-server: You're right, except in my case about the part where we put the box in the server room, protected from outages. That would put us right back in the mode of jumping through (flaming) hoops to meet IT standards. For a smaller company, though, it's a terrific solution.
    My fault. I misread and misstated your point and I hear that all the time from both IT people and from folks who do not want to bother with their IT people because they are swamped. Now, regarding security of a desktop redirector riding on HTTP. What you run into there is your data (email, etc) is going out over the net unencrypted.

    Regarding Taroliw's question about encryption, you make a very good point. I can't speak for BES or BB's dekstop redirector, but within GoodLink, the data is encrypted in AES and stays that way all the way down to the device and vice versa.
  9. #29  
    With the Verizon Wireless Sync (rebranded Intellisync) product, the data is also AES-encrypted down to the device, and vice versa, as well. So - taroliw, it's not open data flowing freely. Just an FYI.....
  10. AKC
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    #30  
    I wish goodlink had a weclient like RIM so you could check your business email as well as your corporate email without having to use two different services. I also would like to be able to view my bosses calander. He is always asking me to check his schedule and its very slow looking it up on Outlook Web Access on My Treo. Am I asking for to much?
  11. #31  
    I don't understand the difference between business email and corporate email. I am guessing you mean a web client when you sau weclient. I have sent the feature request through that we support POP3. Do not know if it is on the road map or not.

    Shared calendars are coming. There is an application out there (can't remember off the top of my head) that will allow you to share calendar's with GoodLink. Let me see if I can find it. I do remember it is fairly pricey.
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    as is common in these discussions, sometimes folks miss the fact that Good (and most others as well - Blackberry's BES server, for instance) uses a CORPORATE SERVER to give you all that goodness. It's not just a one-user deal. I'd say that 99% of the Blackberries you see out there are running off a company's Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES) - meaning, it's an IT gig, and not just a one-off person with his own individual device. Yes, I know that's not the case with EVERYone, but most Blackberry users (and ALL Good users) are running their device off an intermediary server. In the case of Good, it's the Goodlink server, connected to Exchange. In the case of Blackberry, it's the BES, connected to Exchange or Domino.
    So - it ends up being pretty cost INeffective to want to run out and get your own Good (or BES) server if you're just a single random person.

    My point is that most folks miss the point that all the great wireless syncing and push email, etc (which is not limited, by the way, to just Good and RIM - there are others out there as well) is MOSTly driven by an enterprise software server, connected to the Exchange server, for instance. Yes, you can use Snapper or Chatter if you can get your IT person to open an IMAP port on your mail server, but not every IT guy will do that. BES and Goodlink (and Intellisync, etc) solve the security risk by creating a secure pipe with the mail server, and encrypting data sent to the handheld.

    bla bla - I could go on....but the point is made. Maybe.
    Nrosser -

    You must not have read my original thread -- I have an exchange server and application server to run goodlink.

    What I don't want is half of a solution. Chatter, Snapper, Versa and BC are great for someone that wants just email. These are definately not enterprise solutions - No management features or centralized management. No way to enforce security policies. Devices cannot be provisioned or upgraded easily -- no OTA like Good, BES, Visto..etc. They don't support multiple devices Palm, PPC, Symbian and BB... Lastly, there interfaces are not polished and documentation is sketchy.

    Have you ever used Goodlink? If suspect you haven't. Try it and then tell me the others are better.
    Last edited by GolfBallMan; 06/11/2005 at 07:56 PM.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by tangible
    Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    "Ask your IT guy if punching a hole through your firewall is a 'pro'"

    My IT "guy" is an Electronic Messaging group with hundreds of people, all totally stressed out trying to keep a vast network of Exchange servers plus Blackberry servers running all around the world, and totally uninterested in even discussing adding anything to the environment that might destabilize things. So anything I can do that doesn't involve talking to them is indeed a
    'pro"...provided that it's not really dangerous.

    Which leads me to the difference between what I said, "punches through the firewall" and what you paraphrased, "punches a hole in the firewall": Those are very different ideas. These desktop redirectors don't open any new ports; their data rides on top of HTTP through the same proxy that IE uses, and this doesn't violate any firewall rules. There is, of course, a vulnerability when data passes through someone else's server (Verizon's, in this case), but that's more theoretical than real as long as the server owner is a reputable company.

    To Nrosser's point about the mini-server: You're right, except in my case about the part where we put the box in the server room, protected from outages. That would put us right back in the mode of jumping through (flaming) hoops to meet IT standards. For a smaller company, though, it's a terrific solution.
    Wow...that sounds like alot of people dedicated to running a BES. With all that stress they should look into Good.

    -- just being a wiseguy...
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by GolfBallMan
    What I don't want is half of a solution. Chatter, Snapper, Versa and BC are great for someone that wants just email. These are definately not enterprise solutions - No management features or centralized management. No way to enforce security policies. Devices cannot be provisioned or upgraded easily -- no OTA like Good, BES, Visto..etc. They don't support multiple devices Palm, PPC, Symbian and BB... Lastly, there interfaces are not polished and documentation is sketchy.

    Have you ever used Goodlink? If suspect you haven't. Try it and then tell me the others are better.
    Well, I have used three such solutions, including Goodlink. A few observations:

    (1) It's not just a question of wanting only email. One needs also to take into account whether PIM data must be synced LIVE always. For some this may be more important than for others. But most people, if pressed, will usually resolve that having PIM right up to the moment isn't critical. Receiving and responding to email live almost always is critical.

    (2) Being an "enterprise" solution almost invariably means that IT can easily provision, maintain, and control access to/from a variety of devices. Notice I do not add "support multiple platforms." Almost all IT departments I've ever encountered or worked in eventually resolve to support a very small (usu. 1) number of platforms to reduce support costs. Sure, it's nice if a solution supports a wide variety... but IT will always resolve to support as few as possible.

    And as for centralized management of devices, this can be a huge double-edged sword. With the increasing costs of the very PDA devices required to run these applications, companies are increasingly (but not always) deciding NOT to subsidize or outright purchase devices for employees. And when centrally managing devices these applications lose sight of this fact.

    An example is the Goodlink feature enabling the enforcement of a password on all Palm devices using the application. Obviously, security of corporate data is a concern... but too bad that you only really care about securing your corporate data... oops! We just locked your whole device. And realzing the headache of this, IT at my current employer has granted users of PDA/phone devices the company didn't purchase an exemption from this policy... and it's turning into a huge hassle with more PDA/phone users coming online. Many attempt to bypass the security by using one-letter paswords, usually "p", since it's close to the Enter key and can by typed easily when trying to use the phone somplace like a car when you can't be staring at it to type a full password.

    So... the key here is that not every corporate feature that sounds like a great idea works in all environments. And labeling a product "enterprise" doesn't automatically mean that any non-"enterprise" solution suddenly become irrelevant.

    In the aforementioned corporate "enterprise" environment, I have tossed Goodlink on it's ear and begun using ChatterEmail and (beta) NexChange to handle my live email and period PIM sync requirements. And while I think NexChange has ways to go to be a truly world-ready application, it's a good example of how "enterprise" bloatware isn't always the best approach.

    YMMV, of course, which is part of the point.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by taroliw
    Well, I have used three such solutions, including Goodlink. A few observations:

    (1) It's not just a question of wanting only email. One needs also to take into account whether PIM data must be synced LIVE always. For some this may be more important than for others. But most people, if pressed, will usually resolve that having PIM right up to the moment isn't critical. Receiving and responding to email live almost always is critical.

    (2) Being an "enterprise" solution almost invariably means that IT can easily provision, maintain, and control access to/from a variety of devices. Notice I do not add "support multiple platforms." Almost all IT departments I've ever encountered or worked in eventually resolve to support a very small (usu. 1) number of platforms to reduce support costs. Sure, it's nice if a solution supports a wide variety... but IT will always resolve to support as few as possible.

    And as for centralized management of devices, this can be a huge double-edged sword. With the increasing costs of the very PDA devices required to run these applications, companies are increasingly (but not always) deciding NOT to subsidize or outright purchase devices for employees. And when centrally managing devices these applications lose sight of this fact.

    An example is the Goodlink feature enabling the enforcement of a password on all Palm devices using the application. Obviously, security of corporate data is a concern... but too bad that you only really care about securing your corporate data... oops! We just locked your whole device. And realzing the headache of this, IT at my current employer has granted users of PDA/phone devices the company didn't purchase an exemption from this policy... and it's turning into a huge hassle with more PDA/phone users coming online. Many attempt to bypass the security by using one-letter paswords, usually "p", since it's close to the Enter key and can by typed easily when trying to use the phone somplace like a car when you can't be staring at it to type a full password.

    So... the key here is that not every corporate feature that sounds like a great idea works in all environments. And labeling a product "enterprise" doesn't automatically mean that any non-"enterprise" solution suddenly become irrelevant.

    In the aforementioned corporate "enterprise" environment, I have tossed Goodlink on it's ear and begun using ChatterEmail and (beta) NexChange to handle my live email and period PIM sync requirements. And while I think NexChange has ways to go to be a truly world-ready application, it's a good example of how "enterprise" bloatware isn't always the best approach.

    YMMV, of course, which is part of the point.
    Tarilow -

    I am giving Nexchange a shot next week. Sounds like a promising product and I hope it works out.

    This may be a moot point now though -- my employer just sent out an email. Apparently they just purchased 15,000 licenses of Goodlink.

    Regarding passwords, IT has the option via the GoodLink Mgmt consule to enforce strong password protection -- this would avoid the one key password. Personally, I wouldn't want people reading their email while driving their car, my last boss had a nephew killed by a BB user checking their email while driving.

    For most email is good enough but I don't put boatload of freebies on my treo. I just want outlook functionality, handmark, one or two games, mp3 and thats it. I know people have an issue with the amount of memory GoodLink takes up but I don't.

    But back to the original point -- is there anything as Good as Good. Thus far, the answer has been no. Nexchange looks promising and meets the demands of the minimalist by using the native palm apps and no IT intervention. Visto, Seven & Surewave - my biggest complaint is the interface. Chatter and Snapper - just do email only which is good for some and better than versamail. Dataviz has Roadsync comming out which may be interesting. But for an all inclusive and robost solution Good is the way for me. So looks like I will get me one of those 15,000 licenses.
    Last edited by GolfBallMan; 06/12/2005 at 08:51 AM.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by GolfBallMan
    Regarding passwords, IT has the option via the GoodLink Mgmt consule to enforce strong password protection -- this would avoid the one key password. Personally, I wouldn't want people reading their email while driving their car, my last boss had a nephew killed by a BB user checking their email while driving.
    I must not have been clear then. It's not just a password on Goodlink (email). It is a password that locks your whole device -- and, by the way, replaces the Palm "security" settings. Yes, that means we had to type it before making -- and sometimes before receiving -- phone calls. But if you're going to use one of those 15,000 licenses, you'll learn that soon enough.
  17. #37  
    we're in agreement that BES, Good, et al are enterprise apps whereas Chatter, etc really aren't. That's been my point all along, so maybe I was unclear in what I had been saying. We're on the same page.

    And at the moment, I have a 650 running Goodlink & another running Verizon's Wireless Sync app. Just so you know.

    (I think the critical aspect that makes a mail app 'enterprise' or not is whether it's middleware-based or not. BES, Good, etc are all middleware based. That's what really separates the BESs and Goods from the world, from the individual mail clients like Snapper and Chatter.

    BUT - I say that's all going to change as SP2 starts to roll out, and the middleware guys start to lose their relevance. Should be interesting to see over the next 12 to 18 months.....
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    BUT - I say that's all going to change as SP2 starts to roll out, and the middleware guys start to lose their relevance. Should be interesting to see over the next 12 to 18 months.....
    I agree the next 12 - 18 months will be interesting but it is going to be more interesting to see what happens to Blackberry. That is who is MS is really targeting..IMO

    Microsoft needs mobile email the most inorder to keep feeding itself. Less than 20% (some estimates <15%) of MS installed exchange servers are using 2003. Microsoft is pushing hard on the mobile devices with PocketPC Phone Edition and Smartphone. So, the promise of push email is something to help convince customers to upgrade, generate revenue and keep partners happy.

    Microsoft is still a few years away and the middleware companies should thrive in the short term because of interest being generated and the gaps in Microsofts solution. In the longterm, email will become a commodity, just like voice and enabling backend application intergration on the device will be on the forefront.

    Application intergration is where the middleware companies will ultimately compete. One thing we can all agree on, Microsoft is not in the services business and they cannot seem to get their own applications intergrated.

    So what do middleware companies have to offer? A secure and reliable platform for not just email but application deployment to multiple devices. Companies are paying for that security and the SLA's delivered by each solutions NOC. This is why middleware solutions are strong in the enterprise and will continue to thrive.

    Blackberry should be worried. Over 70% of revenues are from hardware. Blackberry Built-in and Blackberry Connect don't exist in the US and what phone mfg in their right mind is going to offer a phone that only offers partial functionality of BB's own device?

    Blackberry now has to worry the likes of HP, Nokia, Motorolla, Audiovox, Sony, LG and PalmOne - thats just on the hardware end. Now Microsoft is comming to the plate, loaded with some pretty awesome powerpoint slides, lots of smoke and mirrors and a marketing campaign that rivals a hurricane running through the Florida coast.

    It will be interesting to watch BB's earnings for the next 12 - 18 months. Watch the margins. Three of their largest carriers (Verizon, Cingular, Nextel) have entered into agreements to resell competitive products (Intellisync, GoodLink, Visto). Microsoft is hot off the press with powerpoint slides. HP is launching the communicator, Dell is a crouching tiger. I am sure more of BB's carrier partners will be announcing competitive offerings over the next few months. The question is which competitive solution is strong enough to win multiple carriers. The target is BB. Microsoft, hardware vendors and middleware guys win on this one - no one part can survive without the other.

    Oh, BB has to suffer through the NTP suit...again.

    Its gonna be an interesting ride.. A?
    Last edited by GolfBallMan; 06/12/2005 at 09:52 PM.
  19. #39  
    [GolfBallMan] "Wow...that sounds like alot of people dedicated to running a BES. With all that stress they should look into Good. -- just being a wiseguy."

    Well, only a small portion of the support people are working on Blackberry issues exclusively. The rest of them are involved in Exchange support and the incredible effort to comply with the regulatory and legal requirements on financial services firms wrt archiving and categorizing email.

    Nevertheless, your point is well taken. David Pogue just wrote an interesting column in the NY Times called, "Spending Time to Save Time". [June 9, 2005] It talks about how reluctant people are to invest time up front to make their personal technology systems more effective in the long run. That happens at the enterprise level, too. Blackberry had a tremendous first-mover advantage, and no effective competition until fairly recently. They're going to be hard to dislodge, and it may be that only another incumbent (Microsoft, Cisco) can do it, irrespective of the product quality.
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by tangible
    Blackberry had a tremendous first-mover advantage, and no effective competition until fairly recently. They're going to be hard to dislodge, and it may be that only another incumbent (Microsoft, Cisco) can do it, irrespective of the product quality.
    Yeah, BB had a tremendous lead and they created the space. But Microsoft needs to feed itself. Remember Harvard Graphics, Lotus 123, Wordperfect, Wordstar, Netscape, Novell and Digital Research. It will take time but Microsoft needs the middleware guys to help fill in the gaps so they can sell more exchange 2003 and pocketpc's, smartphones.
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