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  1. #41  
    If I recall from the days of setting up Vision when it first came out, all Sprint phones w/ Vision have an IP address.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  2. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #42  
    ^ Yes, all data-enabled devices have an IP address. The address is dynamically assigned when device initiates an internet-call. Often times, depending on the provider, the IP address assigned is "private" and can not be directly accessed from elsewhere on the internet.

    Push email solutions like GoodLink and eXpress Mail will send an SMS to the device alerting it that new email/information has arrived. The device will then initiate an internet call and "pull" or download the information from the email provider's server. This is actually a pretty robust way of implementing "push" email, since it saves on data traffic (the device does not need to be constantly connected) and in turn saves battery power.
  3. #43  
    GoodLink does not use SMS.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiVeyx
    ^ Yes, all data-enabled devices have an IP address. The address is dynamically assigned when device initiates an internet-call. Often times, depending on the provider, the IP address assigned is "private" and can not be directly accessed from elsewhere on the internet.

    Push email solutions like GoodLink and eXpress Mail will send an SMS to the device alerting it that new email/information has arrived. The device will then initiate an internet call and "pull" or download the information from the email provider's server. This is actually a pretty robust way of implementing "push" email, since it saves on data traffic (the device does not need to be constantly connected) and in turn saves battery power.
    Will this use up my free SMS allowed under my Cingular plan? I use XpressmailPE.

    How will MS Activesync do this without needing additional software on the Exchange server or some 3rd party servers (like Seven uses with Xpressmail)?
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  5. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    GoodLink does not use SMS.
    Actually, I beg to differ. When I was using GoodLink (about 6 months ago) on my T600 I was forced to swap out phones for a couple of days. I was using a regular Moto V551, every once in while I would receive a cryptic SMS, this happened for about three days straight. I had never received anything like in on my T600 before. When I got my T600 back, no more cryptic SMS's, and back on GoodLink.

    I'm pretty sure GoodLink is utilizing SMS in conjunction with data calls to accomplish its "push" technology.
  6. #46  
    spivey..

    All versions of GoodLink prior to 3.6 did use SMS. However, with version 4.0 (and all future releases) does not use SMS.
  7. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #47  
    ^ I stand corrected then. I was not using GoodLink 4.0
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    #48  
    So do newer solutions such as the upcoming activesync and good use a proprietary solution for push now? How do they communicate with the phone then if vision isn't active?

    Thanks for all the answers so far, very informative thread...
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiVeyx
    ^ I stand corrected then. I was not using GoodLink 4.0
    Yeah, when you said 6 months ago, that was the first thing that popped into my mind. Common misunderstanding.
  10. Webby's Avatar
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    #50  
    I got chattermail to work. yay
    Treo (Palm Version) lover

    Motorola v400 --> Sidekick ll --> Treo 650 --> PPC 6700 --> Sprint Treo 700P --> Blackberry 8700g --> Blackberry 8300 --> Blackberry 8320 --> Sprint Mogul --> **What's Next?**
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gantry
    So do newer solutions such as the upcoming activesync and good use a proprietary solution for push now? How do they communicate with the phone then if vision isn't active?

    Thanks for all the answers so far, very informative thread...
    As for Exchange ActiveSync, that is a very good question. We had a meeting after the announcement and the question of how the Exchange Server communicates with the phone is a MAJOR issue that nobody outside of Redmond seems to know right now.

    As for GoodLink, we use an IP message to maintain the connection. This is how we can support GlobalConnect. With an SMS contact method, you have to have and SMS agreement with carriers, whereas with ours, as long as the carrier supports the network type (CDMA, GPRS, etc) and the device and your carrier has a roaming agreement with them, you can use GoodLink.
  12. Kash76's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by reverendrhino
    VersaCrap go push? Damm they can't even get to work right, can you imagine the headaches? Chatter all the way........by the time, VersaCrap & Snapper get going, Chatter will be ahead by miles........

    I'll wait for snapper to get chatter like functionality right. Chatter resets my treo way too much. Snapper is very stable, when they release IDLE support it will be much better than chatter.
    Kash76

    Sprint - Treo 650, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    If I recall from the days of setting up Vision when it first came out, all Sprint phones w/ Vision have an IP address.
    Won't I have to be always connected to GPRS on my Cingular T650?

    It's not a problem (doesn't cost me to stay connected), but it is not a given (say on powerin on the phone) to get connected to the network.

    Also, Media NEt uses get a private IP address behind a NAT (like spiVeyx mentions). So my Treo will not be able to use IP based push e-mail from any vendor ..

    I'll need the more expensive ($40/mo) package from Cingular, that's needed for VPN etc.

    Am I correct?
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad

    Also, Media NEt uses get a private IP address behind a NAT (like spiVeyx mentions). So my Treo will not be able to use IP based push e-mail from any vendor ..
    You could use GoodLink with that configuration. GoodLink transmits Exchange data via SSL port to our SOC then to the carrier network. If you are getting and sending email via Exchange, you can use GoodLink. But, as has been stated previously, GoodLink does require IT intervention.
  15. #55  
    I think what this thread (and SO many others like it) indicates is that there's a great unknown out there in the world, as far as pushing email out to a device/any device. There's a lot of demand, and subsequently, a lot of mystery and misdirection.

    People say 'hey I just got a Treo and I want it to work just like my friend/spouse/neighbor/guy on the plane next to me/dog's Blackberry'. Well, it's not that simple. RIM has indeed done an excellent job of showing the IT person how they can make the process somewhat *****-proof. Good is making similar progress, yet there's still the larger set of users out there (again, as indicated by the posts in this forum) who need some handholding. And THAT is where Microsoft will come in - they'll go right at the IT guy, saying, 'hey, juust upgrade your Exchange '03 server to SP2, and push email now becomes a no-brainer'. And once that happens on a mass scale, we'll see push email (at least in the Exchange world - and that's most of the world, and growing) start to become TRULY ubiquitous.
    I just want RIM to go down, so however that happens, I'm all for it.
  16. #56  
    Funny thing is, nrosser, it may NOT be that easy. We are hearing some interesting things that may be required outside of the SP2 upgrade for pushed email. On top of all of that, EAS won't work outside of Exchange 2003 and won't work with Treo 600's. IT guys are not about "hey, just upgrade your Exchange Server". They will...eventually, but early adopters of MSFT upgrades are few and far between. Many like to wait until the first, of what is usually many, patches come out.
  17. #57  
    Interesting article that sheds some light on things:

    http://www.brighthand.com/article/In...ile_Push_Email


    "According to Sami Khoury in the Microsoft Exchange Team Blog, the device periodically sends an HTTP request to the server, which asks Exchange to report any changes that occur in the mailbox of the requesting user within a specified time limit.

    If no new emails arrive, the server will send an empty response message at the end of specified time. The device will then send another HTTP request to the server, starting the cycle all over again"
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    Funny thing is, nrosser, it may NOT be that easy. We are hearing some interesting things that may be required outside of the SP2 upgrade for pushed email. On top of all of that, EAS won't work outside of Exchange 2003 and won't work with Treo 600's. IT guys are not about "hey, just upgrade your Exchange Server". They will...eventually, but early adopters of MSFT upgrades are few and far between. Many like to wait until the first, of what is usually many, patches come out.
    This really sounds like FUD to me. I think Microsoft has done an excellent job of getting out a tremendous amount of info on the new features, but people are a little slow in actually reading and digesting them.

    http://blogs.technet.com/exchange/ar...07/406035.aspx

    The necessary components are pretty clear: Exchange SP2; Messaging & Security Feature Pack for Windows Mobile 5.0; and for the licensees like Palm/Nokia/etc, their own programming feature updates.

    If you have heard something more, you should be specific, as Microsoft has been VERY specific:

    Check out the Exchange Blog for more info, like this: "SP2 is imminent, and I’m very excited about this. We are currently running almost all of Microsoft (102,000 mailboxes) on SP2 (with the exception of 1400 people currently running Exchange 12…)" http://blogs.technet.com/exchange/ar...06/405993.aspx

    It is really pretty late to call people running Exchange 2003 "early adopters", don't you think? My organization has been running it for more than a year. On Friday evening, we upgraded from Standard to Enterprise version (due to impending store size shutdown; we couldn't wait for SP2 to bump our store size). Amazingly, it took less than 3 hours.

    What I can tell you is that the ONLY reason someone should still be running an earlier version of Exchange is MONEY. If they cannot afford the software, then none of this discussion applies to them (but then Goodlink/BES really wouldn't either).

    Oh, and I think some third-party apps (like DataViz's RoadSync) will specifically support Treo 600s using Exchange ActiveSync (even before SP2 comes out). http://www.dataviz.com/solutions/ent...d_devices.html

    So that too is a misstatement, and just a little more FUD on the fire...
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    Interesting article that sheds some light on things:

    http://www.brighthand.com/article/In...ile_Push_Email


    "According to Sami Khoury in the Microsoft Exchange Team Blog, the device periodically sends an HTTP request to the server, which asks Exchange to report any changes that occur in the mailbox of the requesting user within a specified time limit.

    If no new emails arrive, the server will send an empty response message at the end of specified time. The device will then send another HTTP request to the server, starting the cycle all over again"
    Sami's actual article would be more appropriate to read than a slanted rehash...here's a BRIEF excerpt:

    "I’ve omitted some details here, but that is what is going on under the covers when you check the "Enable up-to-date notifications via HTTP" checkbox in Exchange System Manager in Exchange 2003 SP2, and it has the benefit of working on any mobile operator network that supports internet connectivity. Since the hopes of increased revenues of most mobile operators appear to be pinned on the possibility of selling users on data-enabled applications, this seemed like a safe enough bet.

    Further, by using HTTP, we do not require enterprises to open any inbound ports beyond what they’ve already had to open in order to support Outlook Web Access (OWA), Outlook’s RPC-over-HTTP feature, and ActiveSync itself. Finally, the client-initiated nature of HTTP makes the device ultimately responsible for connectivity with Exchange, so upon receiving the request for change notifications from the device, Exchange will return a response immediately if any changes have occurred since the last synchronization. This is how we prevent "dropped" notifications. If the device ever drifts out of coverage, it will enter a re-try loop and connect as soon as it is able. The network resilience logic of the device can also be triggered on the timeout limit having elapsed before a response from the server is received.

    So there we have it: an up-to-date mobile email solution that is friendly for administrators and users alike. Changes trickle into the phone in the same way that they do into Outlook on the desktop. In fact, updates appear on the phone before they do in Outlook and OWA!

    Now then, if you’ve been paying attention, you’ve probably noticed that AUTD requires a persistent data connection twixt the device and Exchange, and you’ve got a few issues with this:

    Won’t the always-on data connection hose the battery of the device? If we were constantly sending and receiving packets, yes. However, note that for much of the lifetime of a request for change notifications, we are just waiting for a response. GPRS radios do not consume power unless they are actively transmitting. Further, the lifetime of a request for change notifications is chosen independently by each device, and, in practice, these requests tend to live for upwards of twenty minutes in the no-email case. The means by which the device chooses this lifetime is tuned to minimize bytes over the wire and maximize battery life. Five minute scheduled sync is more poorly behaved in this regard.
    Won’t the always-on data connection result in massive data charges for users? Not really – the synchronization operations that are performed in AUTD are targeted at only those folders that contain changes, so you’re never issuing lots of empty syncs as you are with a scheduled or manual sync. Five minute scheduled sync is more poorly behaved in this regard, too.
    How much data traffic does AUTD require? We get this question a lot. The best answer is that we have no idea. How much email do you get in a day? That’s about how much traffic AUTD requires. Unhappy with that number? Consider sending less email or ending certain personal and professional relationships.
    What the previous three points add up to is that AUTD is actually better for mobile operator networks and device battery life than the solution based on scheduled sync that is used by devices that mobile operators sell today. We’ve had a bit of difficulty in getting this point across to some mobile operators."

    GO READ THE WHOLE THING!
    Last edited by delta_baggage; 06/11/2005 at 11:59 PM. Reason: FORGOT THE LINK!?!?!?!
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    SP2 is due end of the year, however, from what I have seen, while it will be a major improvement over the current version of Exchange ActiveSync, it will still be a very immature product and won't be a viable enterprise solution for awhile.
    How do you know this? Microsoft says, "Get a sneak preview of the new features and improvements coming in Service Pack 2 (SP2), scheduled for release in the second half of 2005."

    And there appears to be some rumoring growing around September/October to quickly follow the Mobile 5 devices...

    And while you call the product "immature" and say it "won't be a viable enterprise solution for awhile", I find the fact that it is ALREADY IN PRODUCTION IN AN ENTERPRISE to be somewhat contradictory: "We are currently running almost all of Microsoft (102,000 mailboxes) on SP2 (with the exception of 1400 people currently running Exchange 12…)"

    What is growing increasingly interesting to me is that while Microsoft has done one of its BEST jobs of getting a ton of info out in a matter of hours and days following the announcement, so many people are bending over backward to make seemingly false or uninformed contradictory statements to already published info...
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