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  1.    #1  
    Someone pointed out to me the following in a discussion on Shadowmite's website:

    http://www.mail-archive.com/palm-dev.../msg85816.html

    It turns out there is a "hidden" memory card on the Treo 650 that looks just like a second SD card to the applications, except that it is hidden from normal view. It turns out that it's possible to expose this "card" with a hack I'm working on, and use it to play MP3s and store other files in the internal memory. It's just like a "ramdisk" except it's already there...

    The other thing that's interesting about this "card" is that the photos and videos in main memory are stored there. This is a big problem, because most backup programs don't know about this hidden card, so if you've ever tried to backup and restore your Treo while doing hard reset, and lost a weeks worth of pictures, you'll know what I'm talking about...

    If you want to see what's in your internal "card", here's an experimental modified version of Filez that lets you browse it. You can also use it to copy all your photos to a safer place.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  2. #2  
    Today isn't April 1st...
  3.    #3  
    Yes, I have a calendar. What's your point?
  4. #4  
    Very cool...thanks!!!
  5. #5  
    what are all of those files in the blazer directory?


    hmmm...17.3MB. Is that the backup directory for the NVFS?
  6.    #6  
    My best guess is some sort of cache metadata. The files are too small to be the cache itself. I have no idea why Blazer needs this junk.

    The other directory seems to be an alternate view of the NVFS... actually it may be the more accurate view, since I've heard that NVFS is really a FAT filesystem.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstroot
    Today isn't April 1st...
    And he's not fooling.......For those of you who don't know, Dr.Wowe played a significant roll in getting 1.08 Custom ROMs up and available so quickly - he knows what he's doing!
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrWowe
    My best guess is some sort of cache metadata. The files are too small to be the cache itself. I have no idea why Blazer needs this junk.

    The other directory seems to be an alternate view of the NVFS... actually it may be the more accurate view, since I've heard that NVFS is really a FAT filesystem.
    Any ideas yet as the the size of the drive? Would be interesting to see if there is significant extra memory to further enhance the available RAM...

    Dutch - yours is 17.3 meg? Mine is just 7.7 meg........hummm...Am I safe in assuming thats the size of the full BUILTIN when you look at details in FileZ?
  9.    #9  
    How are you finding the size? If you're using the tree view and click "details", Filez just sums up the reported size of each file, one by one. Use the "Information" button on the main menu to get info about the whole volume. On mine it is reported as
    Total Size: 24852480 bytes
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrWowe
    How are you finding the size? If you're using the tree view and click "details", Filez just sums up the reported size of each file, one by one. Use the "Information" button on the main menu to get info about the whole volume. On mine it is reported as
    Total Size: 24852480 bytes
    Was just selecting BUILTIN and then looking at details...

    I show 16.4 meg free. If this is truly additional free memory and not included in the ROM/RAM total, it doesn't seem like it's used very efficiently.....I suppose unless P1 wanted to have a significant amount of memory available for pics, etc. I wonder if NVFS needs significant memory at different times?

    I may be asking dumb questions - I'm just can't for the life of me figure out why there would be RAM challenges and then an extra drive that many won't use much of???

    Would you think those of us who do not use Pics & Videos would be safe using more of this drive for other programs?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    And he's not fooling.......For those of you who don't know, Dr.Wowe played a significant roll in getting 1.08 Custom ROMs up and available so quickly - he knows what he's doing!
    Then Dr.Wowe, can you please suggest to P1 that this be made into an official P1 patch?

    Without it being approved by P1 this ROM hack probably invalidates any P1 warranty and unapproved hacks invalidate Lockline's coverage.
  12.    #12  
    Here's what I think. (it's just guessing, if you want the truth, sign an NDA with PalmONE...)

    I think the BUILTIN memory card is the NVFS. The whole NVFS. As we all know, the internal 32 megs of flash is divided into two areas, the "ROM" and the "RAM". I think this card is the true native view of the RAM part. I think the traditional Palm database manager is layered on top of this, which is why there's a PALM_DM directory with what appears to be the whole contents of your database memory. Meanwhile, the developers who wrote the camera app realized it would very easy to support both the internal and external cards with the same code... literally just choose card 1 or card 2.

    I've written an experimental YAHM hack which exposes the card to all applications. I was actually able to play an MP3 with pTunes, although RealPlayer couldn't see it. I think all the built-in apps are hardcoded to know where the SD slot is, so they don't "enumerate" the volumes like 3rd party apps do.

    Another interesting project would be to find wherever the native storage is for the ROM part. Imaging doing custom ROMs on the fly...

    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Would you think those of us who do not use Pics & Videos would be safe using more of this drive for other programs?
    I wouldn't know. I'm certainly not going to guarentee anything.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Then Dr.Wowe, can you please suggest to P1 that this be made into an official P1 patch?
    I don't know what you mean? Filez is a GPL program by "Nosleep software". P1 has nothing to do with it.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrWowe
    I don't know what you mean? Filez is a GPL program by "Nosleep software". P1 has nothing to do with it.
    Well I'm just thinking that using the space probably would give P1 an excuse to invalidate their warranty if someone ran into issues. Since they did not make it easy to access themselves and 3rd party apps must be used.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrWowe
    I've written an experimental YAHM hack which exposes the card to all applications. I was actually able to play an MP3 with pTunes, although RealPlayer couldn't see it. I think all the built-in apps are hardcoded to know where the SD slot is, so they don't "enumerate" the volumes like 3rd party apps do.
    So, if I'm reading this right, this is usable memory (if not readily accessible?)
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    So, if I'm reading this right, this is usable memory (if not readily accessible?)
    Actually, I think DrWowe is right on the NVFS - the amount of free memory in my BUILTIN drive mirrors the amount of free RAM in the Internal when I compare the 2 in the Filez Information screens.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Actually, I think DrWowe is right on the NVFS - the amount of free memory in my BUILTIN drive mirrors the amount of free RAM in the Internal when I compare the 2 in the Filez Information screens.
    Well, I guess what I'm trying to figure is would it possible to use a PowerRUN type program and use this "built-in card" (for lack of a better term.) Since he mentioned playing an mp3 from it, can programs be launched from it? I know there's no way of doing it yet, but in theory, is it do-able?

    Or is this just some type of internal backup?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    the amount of free memory in my BUILTIN drive mirrors the amount of free RAM in the Internal when I compare the 2 in the Filez Information screens.
    Same here... even confirmed that by clearing my Blazer cache, checking free RAM, doing some surfing. and then checking free RAM again.

    Not knowing ANYTHING about the OS, I'd say BUILTIN represents the raw memory available, while Internal is what you get after the OS has has massaged it for use. At least that's the only logical explanation I can give about the PALM_DM being a mirror of the Internal RAM.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  19. #19  
    can someone put all of this is non-technical terms???
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by matthew23
    non-technical terms???
    I don't think anyone knows enough about it yet to understand what it really means.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
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