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  1. slinky's Avatar
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       #1  
    So I wandered down to the Sprint store to see whether I was interested in upgrading and changing my service. My primary reason was because Internet access on Sprint is reasonable but on Verizon it's absurdly expensive. I was very unhappy by the crippling 32MB of RAM, but hey, let's keep an open mind because it could cost me only $300 since I have most of the accessories.

    OK, first impression was a shocker. The Treo 650 is far more cheaply built. The frame is made of a hollow plastic like substance that is clearly lacking the feel of the solid Treo 600 build. But the design flaws and deficiencies continued. I really liked the solid, small sleek volume buttons on the side of the 600 that wouldn't be pressed so easily. In contrast, Palm added a cheap plastic "rocker switch" to replace the volume buttons that feel like it will break and are far easier to press accidentally. But there's more -- I heard from others that they didn't like the plastic type feel of the primary function buttons and they were correct. Cheap thin plastic feel.

    The keyboard is easier to use but the choice of plastic buttons is also atrocious. They feel like a cheaply built import and I wonder how long the characters painted on these cheap plastic buttons would last. There is no question in my mind that impact of the phone against any hard substance is considerably worse with this phone.

    On the bright side, the screen difference is strikingly noticeable. That's nice but not worth $300, especially given how poorly built the Treo 650 seems to be. I'm disappointed that Palm simply didn't keep that solid build feel. But as would seem in line, Palm cut corners such as the 32 MB of RAM that should have been no less than 64 MB. I don't feel like the Treo 650 phone was built to last but rather be a transition to the next model.

    I'm happy for all of you who needed to upgrade their phone and are using the new Treo 650. But for the rest of us with a Treo 600, the Treo 650 exemplifies a few steps forward but some significant steps backwards too.

    And BTW, Palm's R&D department obviously were focused on trying to cut costs to raise net revenue rather than using it to build the better phone. In addition to the RAM "oversight" the Treo 650 still lacks a loop for the ubiquitous carrying strap. Perhaps dropping this phone more frequently will have a positive impact on sales numbers too...
  2. pabo's Avatar
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    #2  
    funny, having owned both, I find the 650 to be pretty well built, and at least as good as the 600.

    Only complant is the battery door is a little loose, and you have to remove it to hit the reset. I would never go back to the 600, but if you prefer the 600, more power to ya'....
  3. #3  
    You make alot of quality accusations, yet you never used a T650 for more than 5 minutes?

    I agree that most of what you say is true, albiet a bit exagerated. I got one of the rubber formfitting covers and the device now feels very solid. I've dropped it several times and it took the falls well. I don't like the choice of plastic they used, but mine seems to be pretty solid.

    -BT
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by BIGtrouble77
    You make alot of quality accusations, yet you never used a T650 for more than 5 minutes?

    I agree that most of what you say is true, albiet a bit exagerated. I got one of the rubber formfitting covers and the device now feels very solid. I've dropped it several times and it took the falls well. I don't like the choice of plastic they used, but mine seems to be pretty solid.

    -BT
    Great avatar. That's one of the movies that I've encoded and watched just today on my 650!
  5. #5  
    THe 650 is better. I am glad to be rid of my 600.
    Contrary to you, I like the new plastic buttons and lighter feel.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    So I wandered down to the Sprint store to see whether I was interested in upgrading and changing my service. My primary reason was because Internet access on Sprint is reasonable but on Verizon it's absurdly expensive. I was very unhappy by the crippling 32MB of RAM, but hey, let's keep an open mind because it could cost me only $300 since I have most of the accessories.

    OK, first impression was a shocker. The Treo 650 is far more cheaply built. The frame is made of a hollow plastic like substance that is clearly lacking the feel of the solid Treo 600 build. But the design flaws and deficiencies continued. I really liked the solid, small sleek volume buttons on the side of the 600 that wouldn't be pressed so easily. In contrast, Palm added a cheap plastic "rocker switch" to replace the volume buttons that feel like it will break and are far easier to press accidentally. But there's more -- I heard from others that they didn't like the plastic type feel of the primary function buttons and they were correct. Cheap thin plastic feel.

    The keyboard is easier to use but the choice of plastic buttons is also atrocious. They feel like a cheaply built import and I wonder how long the characters painted on these cheap plastic buttons would last. There is no question in my mind that impact of the phone against any hard substance is considerably worse with this phone.

    On the bright side, the screen difference is strikingly noticeable. That's nice but not worth $300, especially given how poorly built the Treo 650 seems to be. I'm disappointed that Palm simply didn't keep that solid build feel. But as would seem in line, Palm cut corners such as the 32 MB of RAM that should have been no less than 64 MB. I don't feel like the Treo 650 phone was built to last but rather be a transition to the next model.

    I'm happy for all of you who needed to upgrade their phone and are using the new Treo 650. But for the rest of us with a Treo 600, the Treo 650 exemplifies a few steps forward but some significant steps backwards too.

    And BTW, Palm's R&D department obviously were focused on trying to cut costs to raise net revenue rather than using it to build the better phone. In addition to the RAM "oversight" the Treo 650 still lacks a loop for the ubiquitous carrying strap. Perhaps dropping this phone more frequently will have a positive impact on sales numbers too...

    ..........and the whole irony of it? treo 650 is made by the same OEM maker of the infamous 'dark side' compaq Ipaq which its built is famous

    and treo 600 built is worse quality than treo 650 *IMHO*
    treo 650: on my hand nya nya nya!
  7. #7  
    Where, oh where were you slinky? to stop me from purchasing this piece of crap? Probably looking for another string (?!?) to tie around your 600? I'm sorry, but the idea of attaching a loop to my $600 phone, then wearing around my arm like friendship bracelet, is ludicrous! The plastic doesn't feel cheaper to me, but hey! In America we're all intitled to opinions. What's it like where you live?
    Lighten up. The phone's better than a 600, but no one's gonna force you to upgrade.
    The other thing that amuses me is that you continue to use the word "upgrade" when its obvious you don't think this was one? Why is that? Perhaps because secretly, you yearn to join us, but can't, for whatever reason, so you attack instead. Be at peace man! This revolution's OBVIOUSLY not for you.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  8. #8  
    I have a lot of issues with my 650 too having been using it now for four plus months. The hi-res screen and bluetooth are great new features, but it definitely wasn't worth the money I spent on it to "upgrade" from my 600. Depending upon the day you catch me on, I might say I'm glad I switched to it from the 600, or I might not. I hope P1 takes more than baby steps when it introduces its next Treo.
  9. #9  
    I think this is great. One less person to complain about the 650. Can you imagine how many negative posts after this one we would have to read if he actually OWNED one???
    Cingular Treo 650
    Click here to see what's loaded on my Treo 650
    Do you like my dog? Visit his website!!!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by thebland
    THe 650 is better. I am glad to be rid of my 600.
    Contrary to you, I like the new plastic buttons and lighter feel.
    The Treo 650 does weigh more than the 600.
  11. #11  
    Well I think the memory is low too, considering how much extra software many people here put on their phone. I don't plan on adding that much, though. I did see a post here where someone claimed a Palm One rep said they saved $6 per phone by skimping on the memory.

    Cheap build? Well anything made in Taiwan(or China) isn't completely solid IMO. But the Treo 650 isn't THAT bad, it feels pretty decent. Screen is brighter and clearer than my regular phones. However, I do think it was a bit overpriced. Maybe the Treo 700 will be better for you.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    Where, oh where were you slinky? to stop me from purchasing this piece of crap? Probably looking for another string (?!?) to tie around your 600? I'm sorry, but the idea of attaching a loop to my $600 phone, then wearing around my arm like friendship bracelet, is ludicrous! The plastic doesn't feel cheaper to me, but hey! In America we're all intitled to opinions. What's it like where you live?
    Lighten up. The phone's better than a 600, but no one's gonna force you to upgrade.
    The other thing that amuses me is that you continue to use the word "upgrade" when its obvious you don't think this was one? Why is that? Perhaps because secretly, you yearn to join us, but can't, for whatever reason, so you attack instead. Be at peace man! This revolution's OBVIOUSLY not for you.
    Nice!
  13. #13  
    The 600's keyboard and 5-way had better response and feel to me than the 650. My 650 developed a soft, no-click "P" key, within 1 month, and a compeltely stiff spacebar within 4 months (doesn't click or depress in any way, although it does generate a character when touched - I suspect it will completely fail in maybe 2 or 3 months). The 600's keyboard is still working perfectly to this day, and that phone saw some abuse from me (now my wife's). Plus, the coloring scheme was better, as you are not blinded by the keyboard at night, as it happens with the 650's brighter-than-the-screen white keys.
    The 650's 5-way has an inferior shape in the "down" direction in comparison to the 600, making it harder for my thumb to press, but that is a design issue. A quality issue with it is that the 650's 5-way feels very different (and weird) when pressing each side. Left and up feel fine. Right side feels soft and sticky, and down has a very short travel. Feels odd and is an obvious manufacturing defect. The 600's was and still is perfect, feels as crisp as a Nintendo gamepad.

    A lot of us have creaky battery covers. This is also a very common problem. These are design and/or manufacturing defects. The battery cover is slightly forgivable as it is a completely new feature for the product line.The others, not so much.

    I don't agree with you about the application buttons however, I think they are slightly better build quality than the 600's, and the layout is better with the inclusion of the menu and application keys. What did happen is that they added poorly designed functionality to some of them that makes them feel like they don't work - for example., no one knows exactly how many times are you supposed to push the power/hangup/4th button in order to turn the treo on (or off in some cases). Sometimes it's one, sometimes two, sometimes three. In that specific case, it's bad software not bad build quality, because the button responds correctly in other situations.

    Most of these issues are known and widely reported (except for the spacebar problem, honestly I haven't heard of any one else with that one) - the "P" key issue in particular is the most common.

    A lot of people here will try to insult you for finding problems with the 650 and will make fun of you in an infantile manner and will absolutely not accept any criticism of any kind if they can help it, and someone will promptly slap you with "90% of treo users are happy", which is a complete fabrication. Some of them will even have the nerve to suggest that the problem is your hand or your finger, not the keyboard or the 5-way.
    Just putting that out there as a warning to you, dont' get too discouraged, some of us are genuinely interested in the device's potential.
    Last edited by NSiNSiNSi; 04/17/2005 at 04:44 AM.
  14. #14  
    I think the 650 is really well built. I had it in my hand when i punched someone. It still works the same unrealiable way.
  15. pabo's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    A lot of people here will try to insult you for finding problems with the 650 and will make fun of you in an infantile manner and will absolutely not accept any criticism of any kind if they can help it, and someone will promptly slap you with "90% of treo users are happy", which is a complete fabrication. Some of them will even have the nerve to suggest that the problem is your hand or your finger, not the keyboard or the 5-way.
    Just putting that out there as a warning to you, dont' get too discouraged, some of us are genuinely interested in the device's potential.
    not realy, I think folks may be a little put back by someone who stopped by a store and provides a "review" of the 650 - especially on a forum where people come for things like valid reviews.

    I would suggest buying a 650 and using it for 29 days (as almost everyone provides a 30 day MBG) and THEN providing a review.

    It took me no less than 4 solid hours to complete my first successful hotsync - to the point where I was seriously considering returning the unit. Once I actually READ the manual and did it the recommended way, the unit works great. After 30 days, I picked up my wife's 600 to use it and realized how much of an upgrade the 650 is....

    ...as for the 90% happy being a fabrication, do you have better information with greater validity ?? If not, make sure you use terms like "I believe it is"...
  16. #16  
    after my 6th 650 this one finally seems to be of proper quality. had mainly hardware issues of non working buttons, unproper screen, ect. go figure yourself. as a SRO guy told me they've much less hardware issues with the 650 than with the 600. dunno how many 600s I'd have used ...
  17. #17  
    The only gripe I have with my 650 is the amazement that a smartphone lacks the basic features that are included with all of my dumb nokias and ericsons. (voice dial, no resets, bluetooth that works). I guess the problem with palms software development team is that they rushed on trying to put so much fancy stuff in it that they ran out of room for basic stuff., Try building a phone from the ground up instead of thy sky down. Maybe the users will appreciate it more.

    Only smart people use smart phones, that's why we don't need bluetooth dialing for safe driving we're too smart to get into accidents.. Or a phone that doesn't reset every 17 minutes. Or troublesome bluetooth connections and volume management. Because hey, idiots don't know how to use smart phones so the only ones who own 650's are programmers, debuggers, technicians, engineers, geniuses and the average 13 year old super geek. And we are all more then qualified to fix the problems we are receiving on our devices..after all, we didn't buy a phone to use, we bought a phone to tinker, trick, tweak and fix.

    Now back to mimicking my windows desktop experience. *pushes his infinite reset loop button*
  18. mtgmt's Avatar
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    #18  
    jeese I bought mine in dec 04 and still have it all intact working perfectly, no probs solid as a rock, little resets( in that i mean like one a week at most) running over 80 apps, what are all you people doing with your phone that it does not work??
    I are you using it as bait while fishing?? i have never seen/read so many people with problems while i have virtually had none. Im starting to wonder what really goes on behind the scenes..............

    very happy 1st and one first 650 owner
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    A lot of people here will try to insult you for finding problems with the 650 and will make fun of you in an infantile manner and will absolutely not accept any criticism of any kind if they can help it, and someone will promptly slap you with "90% of treo users are happy", which is a complete fabrication. Some of them will even have the nerve to suggest that the problem is your hand or your finger, not the keyboard or the 5-way.
    Just putting that out there as a warning to you, dont' get too discouraged, some of us are genuinely interested in the device's potential.
    I have ranted about many "issues" on these boards. Some of them are worthy of note, some of them are me being a baby. Either way, I certainly hope you weren't pointing to me with your "infantile manner" comment. This is the best smartphone on the market. Period. Find me one that does everything this one does, and does it better. The 600 certainly didn't. All one has to do to win that argument is hold the two models side by side in a normally lit room and take a picture. Of course, I'm sure those of you who complain would say the camera doesn't count because no one uses it, right? Well then, let's look at the interface. My 650 has "hang up" and "call" buttons, like a cellphone should. Does the 600? I could go on and on here. The bottom line is this guy went into a Sprint store, played with the phone for a few minutes, then proceeded to tell all of us actual users what's wrong with it. I hate to use this analogy, but that's like test driving a Monte Carlo, then proceeding to tell Dale Earnhardt Jr. how to drive one. Ridiculous. What's worse is that you then proceed to come on here and defend (?!?) this guy? On what basis? I would have a lot more patience with him had he owned one.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  20. #20  
    mods, did I have a post deleted in this thread?
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