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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    6) The speaker and volume are noticeably worse even though they look the same.
    You can SEE soundwaves?? :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    7) 5 way switch is slightly inferior.
    After 7 months, that's honestly my only quirk with the phone's features/design/build quality. I've gotten used to the up button, but it does suck...yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    8) The 32MB or RAM is what it pathetically is. No true workaround and I'm making do with what I have (and using realaudio in ROM as the MP3 player to save space and dumping my favorite player...)
    Hey...at least it's better than 64MB of Windows Mobile programs!! But seriously, though....do any Windows Mobile devices have NVFS?? All it takes is one time of draining the battery and POOF all that data you had was gone...at least what you hadn't backed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    What really irks me is the way the software and placement of buttons now. Making the right telephone button both a "turn on network" and a "hang up" call button has me hanging up on people accidentally regularly when I try to revive the backlight to see something. Shortcuts are now not shortcuts and require extra keypresses to do anything.
    You'll get used to it. One of the best things Palm could have done. I wouldn't have thought of it...but sometimes it's nice to fit in. When talking about smartphones fitting in, you'll find one of those times.
  2. #82  
    I think what I'd really like to hear is, "Ok, I was wrong, the Treo 650 is not nearly as bad as I made it out to be before I ever even owned one and I apologize for starting yet another ridiculous, treo bashing thread." Oh and, "I apologize for lying about the fact that I got the Treo 650 for free because I just didn't want to swallow my pride after realizing that it's not so bad afterall."

    That would work for me.
    The only thing that separates the men from the boys...is the lessons they learn.
    www.planetmills.com
  3. Dockery's Avatar
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by millsda2
    I think what I'd really like to hear is, "Ok, I was wrong, the Treo 650 is not nearly as bad as I made it out to be before I ever even owned one and I apologize for starting yet another ridiculous, treo bashing thread." Oh and, "I apologize for lying about the fact that I got the Treo 650 for free because I just didn't want to swallow my pride after realizing that it's not so bad afterall."

    That would work for me.

    Oh ya, and could you use large bold font please?
    I have a New Unlocked 650 because my 600 was stolen from me when I was traveling from Singapore to Bangkok. Mixed blessing?
  4. #84  
    Soooo......DrDoom was right. Your initial 10 minute review was inadequate. Maybe you should apologize to him? Or maybe to everyone else in this thread that you suggested were lying?
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  5. #85  
    Right now the Treo 600 is an extreme value for the cost-cutting-I-don't-wanna-spend-over-$300-on-a-phone crowd.
    HP 95LX -> Newton 100 -> Palm III -> Handspring Platinum -> Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p
  6. #86  
    I thought I was the only person getting ridiculously aggravated with this guy.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyTang
    Right now the Treo 600 is an extreme value for the cost-cutting-I-don't-wanna-spend-over-$300-on-a-phone crowd.
    Well...for $10 less than that $300, they can get a much better phone at a much better price, making it a much more extreme value.
  8. slinky's Avatar
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       #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dockery
    So if i read this right, about a month ago you hated it because of poor build quality (vs the 600) in your opinion. Now you think it's similar roughly a month later.

    Give it another month. You should love it by then.
    LOL. I'll respond to your post and address the ridiculous others that follow, including grndslm who is unfortunately a midwestern youth with little else in his life except his obsession with his Treo 650 and to flame and trash any with an ounce of criticism.

    Reading over my post, I felt the build quality was inferior and am glad to say that others were right that generally the build quality is similar. BUT I think my impression was significantly affected by that silly, large, cheap plastic rocker button for the volume which not only looks bad but is easily pressed accidentally (or the little button below it) when trying to hold the phone during normal conversation. It's maddening. While I am enjoying the 650 a bit more than the 600, I still don't think it's worth a $400 upgrade AND two year service contract if you have the 600. My suggestion is still to wait and use your upgrade for the next version. The 32MB of RAM makes me terribly memory conscious and for that price and inability to upgrade, it makes sense for 600 users to stick with what they got.

    Regarding the other posters following, I think that some of you really need to take a step back and look at what you're writing. You're demanding apologies because I stated an opinion that my initial reaction was that the phone seemed like an inferior build? I have to have used the phone for a significan't period of time and I'm not allowed to voice my first impression of the phone after walking in the store? Why the heck not? Do I "need" an apology from others here who are wrong about items I've pointed out? Not a big deal. It's a phone. It's not personal. We talk, express thoughts.

    But some of you take it personally, such as grndslm, who writes long rambling, obnoxious, angry posts (which are frequently inaccurate as well) any time someone mentions a bad word about the 650. It's as though there is little else in his life other than his ownership of what he perceives to be the most incredible phone that has ever existed. It's a phone. Grow up grndslm and some others who can't bear the thought of having a polite conversation about a phone, despite how much it may make our lives easier in this complicated world.
  9. #89  
    apology accepted
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    LOL. I'll respond to your post and address the ridiculous others that follow, including grndslm who is unfortunately a midwestern youth with little else in his life except his obsession with his Treo 650 and to flame and trash any with an ounce of criticism.
    It's the friggin' summer time, nutsac...what else do you want me to do?? And why the hell is it that only slinky and darnell feel it necessary to mention where I'm from and my age as if it matters to people trying to use their friggin' phone. I've tried numerous times to help you find your way around programs and differences between the two phones. You're a sick person, ya know that??

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    While I am enjoying the 650 a bit more than the 600
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I still don't think it's worth a $400 upgrade AND two year service contract if you have the 600.
    Still didn't fix that math problem, huh? Last time -- You buy the phone with 2 yr, it costs you $290. You sell the 600 for $250 on eBay, and it only costs you $40 to upgrade to ALL that the 650 has to offer. At worst, it could only cost like $100....so you're spending up to $100 for an upgrade to hi-res, bluetooth, yada, yada...go back and read it the first two times I explained this to you, slinky. And you can't escape the 2 yr contract without wasting money. Every intelligent person signs the contract because it's virtually 3 free months of service....you're a fool to act like every phone company doesn't do this for like 90% of their customers. There's that 10% that avoids contracts, but I can't understand why.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    My suggestion is still to wait and use your upgrade for the next version. The 32MB of RAM makes me terribly memory conscious and for that price and inability to upgrade, it makes sense for 600 users to stick with what they got.
    I disagree...skip this next version and get the one that has Palm Linux AND WiFi the second upgrade from now. I'm pretty sure by that time the EV-DO market will have matured and hopefully the price will have fallen too.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    You're demanding apologies because I stated an opinion that my initial reaction was that the phone seemed like an inferior build? I have to have used the phone for a significan't period of time and I'm not allowed to voice my first impression of the phone after walking in the store? Why the heck not?
    There, you just said it: "I have to have used the phone for a significant period of time [before making an accurate judgement about the phone]". This is what I dislike about you most, you're talking more than you're listening. Just stop posting for a solid day and read as many threads as you can...preferably the ones you might interest you. And don't forget to search if you must.

    We demand apologies because you were wrong in stating repeatedly that the 650 were an inferior phone before asking for help. THAT is why we want apologies, jackarse!!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Do I "need" an apology from others here who are wrong about items I've pointed out?
    If you ask for an apology for a certain subject, and that person were wrong, I'm pretty sure they'd apologize; it'b only right. Don't you think?? Was there anything I was wrong about that you pointed out??

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Not a big deal. It's a phone. It's not personal. We talk, express thoughts.
    Where the hell have you been. That's what we were doing before you got here?? Your ignorant ramblings have kinda prevented us from discussing anything of importance, though. I attribute this to TreoCentral's lack of a Wiki section, though. If they had one, you could have skimmed it in like an hour or two and learned everything the wisest of TC members could share with you

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    But some of you take it personally, such as grndslm, who writes long rambling, obnoxious, angry posts (which are frequently inaccurate as well) any time someone mentions a bad word about the 650. It's as though there is little else in his life other than his ownership of what he perceives to be the most incredible phone that has ever existed. It's a phone. Grow up grndslm and some others who can't bear the thought of having a polite conversation about a phone, despite how much it may make our lives easier in this complicated world.
    Dude, I write long rambling posts because there's not much else to do in Mississippi during the summer time. There's really not much of ANYTHING for a college student to do ANYWHERE during the summer time -- besides get a job, but remember...I'm intelligent, why work harder when you can just work smarter and ge a degree without the petty side work?? I've been enjoying my summer quite nicely 'til people tell me I write too much. Little else in my life other than my ownership of this phone?? Why do you say this isn't personal and then start talking about my personal life? Really doesn't make much sense does it? But if you'd like to know about my personal life, I'd be more than happy to tell you if you seriously wanted to know. And I'm sorry you've found my posts "angry" but like I've said...I HATE the spread of misinformation; hence, the hate of FOX News and slinky's posts. Sorry you can't read fast enough...perhaps invest in some speed reading material, eh? At least I'm fairly experienced when it comes to this phone and I tried to be nice and guide you in the right direction...but your love for your 600 got outta hand...it's already started to fade just like I said it would!!!

    Seriously though, slinky. If you want to count how many times I've been wrong about something, go ahead and find 'em...but believe me, your number will come out a lot higher. If you ignore that suggestion, I'll just know you're chicken sheet when you feed me some bull honkey about how you have a life...and maybe a wife, even.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    apology accepted
    HAHAHAHA
  12. #92  
    So...How 'bout them Nationals?? First place...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  13. dsch's Avatar
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    3 Posts
    #93  
    I've had my 650 for about 2 months (Note: This was a unlocked GSM phone purchased at P1 web site for $700) and 2 keys on the keyboard stopped working. I tried to call tech support. 3 hours latter on hold (total time) (Note after about 35 minutes on hold P1 drops your call. Called back in 35 minutes latter dropped again and again and again.), I got fed up and called P1 at there CA head quarters and told them that there tech support line was not working. They transferred my call to corporate tech support and they stated that I need a replacement phone. I got the replacement phone and send off the old one. This was a big mistake because P1 sent me a dead phone.

    This replacement phone keeps resetting. I didn't even hotsync it yet. I called in to tech support again and got one of there infamous Customer Support(CS) personnel. They didn't understand anything I said. I think she was in the Philippines . I finally just said that I needed a replacement phone for the replacement phone P1 just sent me. These replacement phones are defective phones that were supposed to be fixed. I could tell that this phone didn't work real easy, just by using it. It Lockups and resets. I know this isn't correct because I had a 650 that worked great just a broken keyboard. If any tech would have put it on a test bed, they would have known it didn't work. P1 has outsourced there there tech support and repair services. Does P1 understand that the final buck stops with them. P1 say's it is to keep cost down. But I have called Nokia (not a carrier) in December 04 and guess what I talked to someone in Florida. If Nokia can afford to keep their CS in the United States while selling dirt cheep phones (well below the price point of the 650) why can't P1. This outsourced services will come back to hurt them in a big way.

    The build quality of this phone 650 is poor. Period. Check out the threads, People aren't stupid and can find these shortcomings quite easily. Anyone can make excuses for why P1 did it. But it doesn't change the fact that the 650 is made from cheap parts. I have read that they are trying to keep it's price down but when you charge $700 for a phone it had better be rock solid with quality parts. If P1 want to sell it for 400 range thats fine but they don't. When P1 is asking for a premium you better deliver. P1 needs to take a look at Nokia 6680 series, this phone feels like quality. This is P1 real competitor. Bring out a higher res screen and a slider keyboard P1 is dead. Also look at Motorola, they have actually brought back inhouse the manufacture of their high end smart phone because of the quality issues with the outsourced manufacturers. Don't get me wrong I like the design and with this last ROM update they fixed most of my problems I had with the units operations but the build quality is poor. Does P1 understand that this is a vicious cycle They build a cheap phone, which causes a high CS call rate, which eats into profits. Which means they need to use cheaper parts which starts a downward spiral.

    I have owned 5 palm PDA's and this Treo. The Treo is an amazing device. I was testing this phone for my company as the new standard cell phone. It had everything we needed quad band (we do a lot of world traveling), ability to use it as a Internet connection for our laptops in remote country's (It worked in the boonies of South Africa) email and etc. But my final decision was not to deploy the Treo 650 because it needs to “just work”. It didn't. I wanted this phone to be the one, but with the build quality issues and the CS issue I had to say no. This cost P1 over $10,000 in sales just because of poor build quality and CS support. How many other companies have test deployed it and then just said “let's go with some other phone” . It cost my company more money in lost wages while I was on hold then what we paid for 650. I can just image if everyone in my company was using this phone and waiting 3 hours for a CS rep I would have had a new a** hole before the end of the day. If P1 want to run with the big dawgs in corporate America they need to act like it.
    I hope someone at P1 will read and understand what I have written. Please no flame wars. I want P1 to succeed they just need to fix their problems.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by dsch
    I've had my 650 for about 2 months (Note: This was a unlocked GSM phone purchased at P1 web site for $700) and 2 keys on the keyboard stopped working. I tried to call tech support. 3 hours latter on hold (total time) (Note after about 35 minutes on hold P1 drops your call. Called back in 35 minutes latter dropped again and again and again.), I got fed up and called P1 at there CA head quarters and told them that there tech support line was not working. They transferred my call to corporate tech support and they stated that I need a replacement phone. I got the replacement phone and send off the old one. This was a big mistake because P1 sent me a dead phone.

    This replacement phone keeps resetting. I didn't even hotsync it yet. I called in to tech support again and got one of there infamous Customer Support(CS) personnel. They didn't understand anything I said. I think she was in the Philippines . I finally just said that I needed a replacement phone for the replacement phone P1 just sent me. These replacement phones are defective phones that were supposed to be fixed. I could tell that this phone didn't work real easy, just by using it. It Lockups and resets. I know this isn't correct because I had a 650 that worked great just a broken keyboard. If any tech would have put it on a test bed, they would have known it didn't work. P1 has outsourced there there tech support and repair services. Does P1 understand that the final buck stops with them. P1 say's it is to keep cost down. But I have called Nokia (not a carrier) in December 04 and guess what I talked to someone in Florida. If Nokia can afford to keep their CS in the United States while selling dirt cheep phones (well below the price point of the 650) why can't P1. This outsourced services will come back to hurt them in a big way.

    The build quality of this phone 650 is poor. Period. Check out the threads, People aren't stupid and can find these shortcomings quite easily. Anyone can make excuses for why P1 did it. But it doesn't change the fact that the 650 is made from cheap parts. I have read that they are trying to keep it's price down but when you charge $700 for a phone it had better be rock solid with quality parts. If P1 want to sell it for 400 range thats fine but they don't. When P1 is asking for a premium you better deliver. P1 needs to take a look at Nokia 6680 series, this phone feels like quality. This is P1 real competitor. Bring out a higher res screen and a slider keyboard P1 is dead. Also look at Motorola, they have actually brought back inhouse the manufacture of their high end smart phone because of the quality issues with the outsourced manufacturers. Don't get me wrong I like the design and with this last ROM update they fixed most of my problems I had with the units operations but the build quality is poor. Does P1 understand that this is a vicious cycle They build a cheap phone, which causes a high CS call rate, which eats into profits. Which means they need to use cheaper parts which starts a downward spiral.

    I have owned 5 palm PDA's and this Treo. The Treo is an amazing device. I was testing this phone for my company as the new standard cell phone. It had everything we needed quad band (we do a lot of world traveling), ability to use it as a Internet connection for our laptops in remote country's (It worked in the boonies of South Africa) email and etc. But my final decision was not to deploy the Treo 650 because it needs to “just work”. It didn't. I wanted this phone to be the one, but with the build quality issues and the CS issue I had to say no. This cost P1 over $10,000 in sales just because of poor build quality and CS support. How many other companies have test deployed it and then just said “let's go with some other phone” . It cost my company more money in lost wages while I was on hold then what we paid for 650. I can just image if everyone in my company was using this phone and waiting 3 hours for a CS rep I would have had a new a** hole before the end of the day. If P1 want to run with the big dawgs in corporate America they need to act like it.
    I hope someone at P1 will read and understand what I have written. Please no flame wars. I want P1 to succeed they just need to fix their problems.

    Agree with you. $700 phone should be of a higher quality and build. The QC is lousy. The end of Palm........
  15. #95  
    So slinky ,
    What is well built and does the Job of a Treo 650( T 600 exlcuded)?
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    So slinky ,
    What is well built and does the Job of a Treo 650( T 600 exlcuded)?
    I agree, I would like to hear that as well. It's very easy to slam the build quality of the 650 if you don't compare it to anything. Personally, I'm not having a problem with it so far.
    Treo 650 with 1 GB SD card!
    http://www.rkuo.com
  17. #97  
    hey..

    You gotts to be kidding "Treo 650 poorly built"

    So far my 650 jumped out of my shirt pocket onto a cushioned chair, onto a wall then hit the tile floor. nothing jhappened to it. Then it disconnected itself from my belt hook and hit a tile floor twice while it was in the leather case. Still works good and the plastic caseing has no cracks.

    Then today it jumped out of the leather case, hit the running board of my semi while I was getting out of my truck and then crashed to the concrete driveway. The SD card goes flying in the other direction. I thought for sure the phone finally committed Treocide. Nope, the screen still in one piece and still works fine. The phones case has a couple more nicks and gouges.

    It appears the Treo 650 is tough little bugger. It would be perfect if I can get it to stop having the propencity to hit hard floors and driveways. Must be a bug in it somewhere.

    Sprint Treo 650 1.08 firmware update.

    Chuck
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    hey..

    You gotts to be kidding "Treo 650 poorly built"

    So far my 650 jumped out of my shirt pocket onto a cushioned chair, onto a wall then hit the tile floor. nothing jhappened to it. Then it disconnected itself from my belt hook and hit a tile floor twice while it was in the leather case. Still works good and the plastic caseing has no cracks.

    Then today it jumped out of the leather case, hit the running board of my semi while I was getting out of my truck and then crashed to the concrete driveway. The SD card goes flying in the other direction. I thought for sure the phone finally committed Treocide. Nope, the screen still in one piece and still works fine. The phones case has a couple more nicks and gouges.

    It appears the Treo 650 is tough little bugger. It would be perfect if I can get it to stop having the propencity to hit hard floors and driveways. Must be a bug in it somewhere.

    Sprint Treo 650 1.08 firmware update.

    Chuck
    LOL!!! good one...
    I'm not weird... I'm gifted!!!
  19. slinky's Avatar
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       #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    So slinky ,
    What is well built and does the Job of a Treo 650( T 600 exlcuded)?
    Overall I think the build is reasonable, better than others. Most here have a short term memory and once someone criticizes something it's like everything is wrong with the device. My initial reaction was that the 650 may be a step down from the 600. Upon further review, I find that it's similar and my attention was drawn to the significantly inferior and lunkhead decision by Palm to create that cheap huge rocker button on the left side. Still, I find that the build is more than acceptable.

    Regarding "the job", it depends upon what your requirements are. Pocket PC devices do the job of a Palm and which does it "better" is a matter of opinion. With the Treo I could never access my MS Exchange email access over the web because none of the web browsers (and definitely not the built in) would support a good number of corporate pages. Syncing was better with Outlook and the PPC. Many corporate IT departments will consider Blackberries before Treos in a heartbeat. Personally, I prefer the Treo but that's because I manage my own connectivity with email and for other reasons. I like it most overall but that doesn't mean it's "the best" for all purposes.

    My biggest beef with Palm is probably similar to Joad's complaints. It's insulting to consumers to do a number of things and, most notably and obvious, the 32 MB of RAM in this "upgrade" was one of those insults. It begs of an upgrade, especially with the already increased footprint requirements of Palm software. If you want to use it in a corporate environment, as per above, then the small RAM footprint becomes an even bigger liability. The PPC crowd isn't taking full advantage of Palm's lapses but it seems that Palm is starting to feel the effects of not having done it right. I like my Treo 650 but much more so because of the fact that I didn't pay $400 to upgrade from a 600 and to sign a 2 year service contract.

    So I guess everything depends upon what your requirements are and then you can determine which tool is best for you. With WiFi being introduced in these other phones, that's a serious consideration and I think much more than Bluetooth.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Most here have a short term memory and once someone criticizes something it's like everything is wrong with the device.
    No short-term memories here. You dogged the 650 - using words like atrocious and cheap.

    You did the same with the 600 - using words like pathetic and difficult (if you've lost your memory - just click here). Note that you later made comments of liking the 600.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    My initial reaction was that the 650 may be a step down from the 600. Upon further review, I find that it's similar...
    Proof that it takes "time" to adequately utilize and review a product.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    ... and my attention was drawn to the significantly inferior and lunkhead decision by Palm to create that cheap huge rocker button on the left side.
    A rocker button many of us use every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Regarding "the job", it depends upon what your requirements are. Pocket PC devices do the job of a Palm and which does it "better" is a matter of opinion.
    Yep - but good or bad, I'd rather have an opinion that stemmed from adequate research.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    With the Treo I could never access my MS Exchange email access over the web because none of the web browsers (and definitely not the built in) would support a good number of corporate pages.
    Working with hosted clients myself, there are oft problems with MS Exchange email - regardless of using a computer or a PDA.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Syncing was better with Outlook and the PPC.
    Yeah, but are we forgetting that outlook was never really created as an actual "email" client for general use? It's a clunky program at that (and yes, I use it). But there are far more stable email clients out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Many corporate IT departments will consider Blackberries before Treos in a heartbeat.
    And most IT departments don't look beyond the core functionality for which they are responsible. They want the key things they implement and support to work. But this normally doesn't include all the extras the average Treo user utilizes (add-on or not).

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Personally, I prefer the Treo but that's because I manage my own connectivity with email and for other reasons. I like it most overall but that doesn't mean it's "the best" for all purposes.
    Ugh... okay, I guess that's what the bulk of folks here wanted to hear. But wouldn't it have been so much easier to know exactly what you were posting? Public forums and archived posts and all...

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    My biggest beef with Palm is probably similar to Joad's complaints. It's insulting to consumers to do a number of things and, most notably and obvious, the 32 MB of RAM in this "upgrade" was one of those insults. It begs of an upgrade, especially with the already increased footprint requirements of Palm software. If you want to use it in a corporate environment, as per above, then the small RAM footprint becomes an even bigger liability. The PPC crowd isn't taking full advantage of Palm's lapses but it seems that Palm is starting to feel the effects of not having done it right. I like my Treo 650 but much more so because of the fact that I didn't pay $400 to upgrade from a 600 and to sign a 2 year service contract.
    Anyone using a device to "get jobs done" should be looking at the price tag last. Sad, but true. There were a slew of $150-$250 devices I could have purchased, but I was looking for the best option for the features I needed. The Treo could have been double the price and I still would have laid it down. I know what my time is worth, so nickel and diming over money when I know how much is going to be saved (and earned, as I won't waste time) is key.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    So I guess everything depends upon what your requirements are and then you can determine which tool is best for you. With WiFi being introduced in these other phones, that's a serious consideration and I think much more than Bluetooth.
    Not for me. Anything important enough that WiFi is necessary would require me to pull out the laptop anyway. WiFi is nice, but I don't think the fact it's not there is a breaking point for anyone who actually prefers the Palm OS and realizes why it's a better solution for many tasks. I'd think most who don't care are looking more for something that looks and acts pretty and runs okay rather than a power tool.

    Pamela
    Last edited by mediasi; 07/09/2005 at 09:08 PM.
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
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