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  1. NRG
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    So I wandered down to the Sprint store to see whether I was interested in upgrading and changing my service. My primary reason was because Internet access on Sprint is reasonable but on Verizon it's absurdly expensive. I was very unhappy by the crippling 32MB of RAM, but hey, let's keep an open mind because it could cost me only $300 since I have most of the accessories.

    OK, first impression was a shocker. The Treo 650 is far more cheaply built. The frame is made of a hollow plastic like substance that is clearly lacking the feel of the solid Treo 600 build. But the design flaws and deficiencies continued. I really liked the solid, small sleek volume buttons on the side of the 600 that wouldn't be pressed so easily. In contrast, Palm added a cheap plastic "rocker switch" to replace the volume buttons that feel like it will break and are far easier to press accidentally. But there's more -- I heard from others that they didn't like the plastic type feel of the primary function buttons and they were correct. Cheap thin plastic feel.

    The keyboard is easier to use but the choice of plastic buttons is also atrocious. They feel like a cheaply built import and I wonder how long the characters painted on these cheap plastic buttons would last. There is no question in my mind that impact of the phone against any hard substance is considerably worse with this phone.

    On the bright side, the screen difference is strikingly noticeable. That's nice but not worth $300, especially given how poorly built the Treo 650 seems to be. I'm disappointed that Palm simply didn't keep that solid build feel. But as would seem in line, Palm cut corners such as the 32 MB of RAM that should have been no less than 64 MB. I don't feel like the Treo 650 phone was built to last but rather be a transition to the next model.

    I'm happy for all of you who needed to upgrade their phone and are using the new Treo 650. But for the rest of us with a Treo 600, the Treo 650 exemplifies a few steps forward but some significant steps backwards too.

    And BTW, Palm's R&D department obviously were focused on trying to cut costs to raise net revenue rather than using it to build the better phone. In addition to the RAM "oversight" the Treo 650 still lacks a loop for the ubiquitous carrying strap. Perhaps dropping this phone more frequently will have a positive impact on sales numbers too...
    I direct your attention to this post sir. http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=81702
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    So I wandered down to the Sprint store...
    That first staement should automatically discount anything else he has to say. UNLESS it was followed by "that was four months ago, and this thing sucks!"
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mtgmt
    jeese I bought mine in dec 04 and still have it all intact working perfectly, no probs solid as a rock, little resets( in that i mean like one a week at most) running over 80 apps, what are all you people doing with your phone that it does not work??
    I are you using it as bait while fishing?? i have never seen/read so many people with problems while i have virtually had none. Im starting to wonder what really goes on behind the scenes..............

    very happy 1st and one first 650 owner
    I could not agree more. Had mine since early January and I'll bet there have been fewer the 15 total resets - and that's with me messing around with Custom ROMs, trying a ton of new software, etc. What can I say, for me it just works, couldn't be much happier with my purchase!
  4. #24  
    Two in my household. Very happy and very satisfied customers. Will certainly buy them again.
  5. #25  
    All of my resets and problems can only be attributed to me fooling with the phone and trying a lot of beta software or programs that haven't been written with the NVFS in mind. If this were a straight PDA, I might be a bit annoyed, but adding a phone to it introduces potential for many conflicts and that doesn't shock me.

    On the hardware side, I have the soft 'P' key but it's been that way from the start (early Sprint shipment in Nov.) and hasn't gotten worse. Otherwise it works well. However, in comparison to my Blackberry 7520, the keyboard feels a bit more delicate. I pound away on the Blackberry and never worry about the keys failing. Of course, the Blackberry is work-provided and I'm not concerned about breaking it. My Treo was purchased with my own money and I rely on it more, so maybe I'm a bit more careful with it. Regardless, I wouldn't say the Treo is poorly built.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by mtgmt
    jeese I bought mine in dec 04 and still have it all intact working perfectly, no probs solid as a rock, little resets( in that i mean like one a week at most) running over 80 apps, what are all you people doing with your phone that it does not work??
    I are you using it as bait while fishing?? i have never seen/read so many people with problems while i have virtually had none. Im starting to wonder what really goes on behind the scenes..............

    very happy 1st and one first 650 owner
    HEY, where did you get that slick protective case????
  7. slinky's Avatar
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       #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    Where, oh where were you slinky? to stop me from purchasing this piece of crap? Probably looking for another string (?!?) to tie around your 600? I'm sorry, but the idea of attaching a loop to my $600 phone, then wearing around my arm like friendship bracelet, is ludicrous! The plastic doesn't feel cheaper to me, but hey! In America we're all intitled to opinions. What's it like where you live?
    Unlike many others here, I use my phone for almost everything but watching movies. I live in a very big city and checking email on the go is commonplace. As almost anyone who actually uses the phone for business can tell you, the bracelet is invaluable. I cannot tell you how many times someone will knock into you and the only thing that saves you is the strap. It's an absolute must if you are a commuter in NY, Chicago or Boston.
  8. slinky's Avatar
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       #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Great avatar. That's one of the movies that I've encoded and watched just today on my 650!
    This is what makes me laugh. Unfortunately marketers are laughing at all of us. Give them the ability to watch a movie and they'll forget that they paid top dollar for a somewhat scaled down unit.

    I'm glad to hear that a good number of you aren't experiencing serious problems at this stage. There is no question that the build is not as solid -- put them next to each other and you'll feel the 600 has a much more solid case that feels more like an alloy. I'm hoping that you'll still feel the same way after a year's use. I'm not sure what I'll have but at this time my Treo 600 has lasted very well for 7 months and is in excellent condition.

    To the person who said that I don't really have an opinion worth discussion having only used the phone for 5 minutes, I don't need a month to figure out the obvious by using my eyes and fingers. It's unfortunate and I'm not alone in this opinion that it is definitely not built as solidly. For all of you who are talking about the manufacturer is the same as, etc. etc. -- who cares? Palm built this to spec. They should have included an extra 32MB of RAM and the amount of RAM is years old. The marketing dept. survey claims that most users don't go near the RAM total? BS. I've been in a company like this. They cut as many corners as they thought possible and made some.

    Like most, consumers like to rationalize why their purchase is really better than it is. I'm not different although I'll own up to it begrudgingly. I've seen phones built with less quality but the 650 disappointed me somewhat. Not horrible but certainly no better than average to slightly above. Years later this machine should have been a killer for the same price. Palm will wait until someone comes up with a substitute and that time is coming very, very soon from what I'm seeing...
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by thebland
    HEY, where did you get that slick protective case????
    Vajacases.com

    That actual one is for sale, i got two more a brn and blk and a grey/blk i used some palm bucks to get my other two
    mt
  10. slinky's Avatar
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       #30  
    I'm actually very happy with my bellagio leather case (the flip with no belt clip) which is fantastic. The one item I'm not happy with are the screen protectors. Ridiculous that they sell them at 3 for $15 here. I've been cutting my writerights down to size but I cannot understand why these haven't been out for the Treos for years. Excellent screen protection at $2 per sheet. I got the thin plastic case on order for the 600 since it's even sleeker than the Bellagio and having the screen protector is virtually good enough. I'm still not happy that Palm didn't include the screen protector slot anywhere on the Treo 650 either. Sometimes the design specs are just infuriating.
  11. pabo's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Palm will wait until someone comes up with a substitute and that time is coming very, very soon from what I'm seeing...
    It's been phrased to many different ways to do a search, but there must be a hundred threads predicting the demise of Palm. People have been talking about this since the Pilot.

    As for marketing laughing, just remember, the next release of xyz company's device is going to be killer - we just need to wait a few more months to get it.....
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Unlike many others here, I use my phone for almost everything but watching movies. I live in a very big city and checking email on the go is commonplace. As almost anyone who actually uses the phone for business can tell you, the bracelet is invaluable. I cannot tell you how many times someone will knock into you and the only thing that saves you is the strap. It's an absolute must if you are a commuter in NY, Chicago or Boston.
    Well, slink. I've got to disagree again. I commute over an hour everyday. I use the vaja case like the one pictured in mtmgt's avatar (solid black baby!) and the belt clip on my hip does a great job keeping it in place. When it's in my hand it isn't going to get knocked out. I lived in NY, ATL, SF, AND Chi-town, so I don't know what you're talking about as far as that goes. No one there ever bumped into me hard enough to make me drop something, although admittedly NY was years ago. Again, to each, his own. I don't want to come off sounding like those people who defend the Treo to the point of stupidity, but its hard not to. This is an incredible device, light years ahead of the 600. I'm sorry, but it is. Everything is relative, though. My Dad still uses his 300, well until the 650 he just bought arrives at my store tomorrow, and he's been quite happy until recently. You go your way, I'll go mine.
    Again, I still have a very hard time with your "five minutes" of use making you an expert. Should the 650 have had more RAM? Absolutely. Was BT flaky before the update? Absolutely. Is BT perfect after the update? No, but usable for me. What do you want me to say. I've had mine since December 5th. It's the only phone I use. It's what sends 90% of my emails, and 90% of my posts here, and it is holding up great ! How am I supposed to reconcile that with what you're saying about build quality. Your experiences (and I use that term loosely ) don't match my real world use. Sorry. In my reality that makes you wrong. End of story.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    mods, did I have a post deleted in this thread?
    Dutch-

    I also had a post vanish yesterday. Nothing that a mod would have purposly deleted either. Wonder if the db is having issues...

    -X

    Sorry for the OT post.
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    funny, having owned both, I find the 650 to be pretty well built, and at least as good as the 600.

    Only complant is the battery door is a little loose, and you have to remove it to hit the reset. I would never go back to the 600, but if you prefer the 600, more power to ya'....
    YAHM [Yet NAother Hack Manager] allows a sfot reset via the menu options. This saves you from having to open the cover which should help prevent the looseness from increaseing
  15. #35  
    > YAHM [Yet NAother Hack Manager] allows a sfot reset via the menu options. This
    > saves you from having to open the cover which should help prevent the looseness
    > from increaseing

    This assumes that the device is still responding to user input. The vast majority of times that I have to reset the phone, it's because the phone has stopped responding entirely. Sometimes I am able to do a soft reset from within LauncherX, but not often.

    I think I'm going to have to poke a hole in my battery cover and carry a paper clip...
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       #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    Well, slink. I've got to disagree again. I commute over an hour everyday. I use the vaja case like the one pictured in mtmgt's avatar (solid black baby!) and the belt clip on my hip does a great job keeping it in place. When it's in my hand it isn't going to get knocked out. I lived in NY, ATL, SF, AND Chi-town, so I don't know what you're talking about as far as that goes.
    So I guess you use the phone while it is in the belt clip since it never gets knocked out of it? Considering that virtually every other phone has a loop for the strap *except* the Treos, there is a good reason for this and I'm happy for you until you drop it just once.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    No one there ever bumped into me hard enough to make me drop something, although admittedly NY was years ago.
    Then you work nowhere near Times Square.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    Again, I still have a very hard time with your "five minutes" of use making you an expert. Should the 650 have had more RAM? Absolutely.
    What time do I need to spend other than the 10 minutes to clearly see that the buld quality of the 650 is not as good, SIDE TO SIDE! Considering that 32MB devices haven't been offered for many years, again it doesn't take any time to see that serious corners have been cut in critical areas. Once I ditch the Treo, I'm never coming back. The "universal adapters" are no longer universal anyways... but hey, that has nothing to do with build quality.
  17. slinky's Avatar
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       #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    It's been phrased to many different ways to do a search, but there must be a hundred threads predicting the demise of Palm. People have been talking about this since the Pilot.

    As for marketing laughing, just remember, the next release of xyz company's device is going to be killer - we just need to wait a few more months to get it.....
    I agree with you but the gap is now closing fast. Microsoft was also stupid. Their technology was good they just didn't bother polling people that actually use the phones about how the software should work!!! But quite frankly, the Samsung i-600 was pretty close and I'm sure they will fix many of the kinks in the next version. It's a smaller phone than the Palm. Blackberry is also starting to become ubiquitous.

    As the number of my incompatible Palm "universal" devices grows, I'm increasingly fed up with them and will not return to their garbage at the first chance I get. Putting in 32 MB or RAM is really an insult to the consumer and most of you should write them or at least make sure it is a complaint that Palm is aware of. Doing an update of the VFS file system is not a solution. The build quality is acceptable but to even compare the plasticky buttons on the side and top means people are fooling themselves. While there were some improvements Palm should know that we know they are cutting corners unnecessarily and we aren't happy about it. Being able to play a movie now in your phone shouldn't change those facts.
  18. pabo's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    ... Palm should know that we know they are cutting corners unnecessarily and we aren't happy about it. Being able to play a movie now in your phone shouldn't change those facts.
    I'd like to help... www.ebay.com

    Sell the 600 and get the Samsung, as "I'm sure they will fix many of the kinks in the next version." ....just not in THIS version (isn't that the complaint here, never mind).

    Would I like more memory, sure. Would I like an anodized aluminum case like my wife's powerbook, sure. Would I like a 5MP camera, sure. Would I like BT1.2, sure. Would I like it to vibrate on my hip and make me lose 15 pounds, sure. Is it poorly built, no.

    There is no valid reason that I upgraded from my 180 to 270 to 600 to 650, other than it's cool and it works for me. If it didn't, I'd ship it back (like I did with my i705 - talk about crappy build).

    The 650 works for me, I think it is built well, relatively speaking and I'm going to keep it. If you don't like yours, find something you do and if it doesn't exist, invent it.
  19. #39  
    Slinky, in all honesty, sounds like you're beginning to hate Palm altogether. Which is fine, you're entitled. I never used the 600, so I can't say if it's better or not. But let me tell you this. The PPC-6600 I've been looking at, I finally picked up a working model(at Sprint also, LOL!). It isn't really that superior over the Treo 650 IMO(build quality-wise). The screen quality is good, but in all honesty, I think the Treo 650 is more solid. For $629(it's full price), the 6600's plastic casing seems a bit flimsy to me. I have regular phones that are more solid! I know it's supposed to be a thin PDA, but now I'm wondering if the screen might flex or break in my purse, it's so thin. I also am not sure I like the keyboard as much as I thought I would. I was all set to buy either the 6600 or the SX66, now I'm not so sure. The mediocre build quality made me appreciate my Treo even more! And I'm very picky about phones too. By the way, I have a friend who refuses to pamper his 650, and it's still running and never fell apart! Go figure!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. slinky's Avatar
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       #40  
    Pabo - your post is a shining example of what I talk about rambling facts that bear no relation to the real issue. A 5MP camera is absurd in a small phone. 1 MP is possible but it's an extra. RAM is an essential in the phone, no matter which way you slice it and dice it. Regardless, you still have not addressed the fact that phones/PDAs have had 32 or 64 MB of RAM in them for years. Palm even admitted it could have done so but blamed the consumers for not including it -- that's an insult as far as I'm concerned. Pay more for less in a critical area.

    Lady Treo - I don't hate Palm, I'm just not happy with watching them go down the path from innovator to slacker looking to extract more than they should from the consumer at our expense by deliberately providing us with inferior phones when it's not necessary. While the 650 may be built better than some other garbage phones, my only point was that it is not as solid as the 600 model was. I'll be it cost them less to do so and again, why fix the parts of the Treo that weren't broke? The answer: so that they can make more money off you while providing you less that you may only notice later.

    Truth is I miss the days when companies weren't as dominant and there was actually a fight for market innovation. Now it's about fooling the consumer into accepting less so that they will go on a continual stream of unnecessary repeat purchases. I wondered how other Treo 650 owners felt about the build quality but from the responses here it's clear I'm only able to get truthful answers from about 25%.

    I saw some new phones coming out in the future and am wondering what their impact will be. I was incredibly impressed with the new Pocket PC that I saw. It's getting smarter with each revision. I like the Palm but am wondering if they will lose market share again soon. It will be really tough to get it back if that happens...
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