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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    This complete and utter bull.

    Period.

    This urban legend continues to this day, and it is pathetic.

    Cell phones do not interfere with jack squat on plains.

    A pilot will NEVER hear DTMF tones in thier headset (unless it is plugged into a phone!) They are on completely separate frequencies.

    Just be discreet. Airlines are run by lawyers and accountants who take the path of the least lawsuit. Zero to do with technical details.
    I have to object to this answer. I am a commercial pilot and fly with my treo on my lap in my plane all the time. When a call comes in, it WILL interfere with my headset. It just causes loud static on it. Infact, I usually can't hear the phone ringing, I hear the static. Soon as I answer it, it goes away. It seems to only do it while receiving the call. I do not have it plugged in to any part of my plane. I do agree though that this does not affect my navigation in any way but it does interfere with my hearing ATC at times.

    "Age is only a number society has inflicted upon us to number our days on Earth."
    ~Stephen Todd
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Basically, they get to make up the rules.

    There is no "determination" that is done, just blanket policy.

    THERE IS NOT ONE STUDY THAT ANYONE CAN POINT TO THAT SHOWS INTERFERENCE.

    This happened back in the day with the laptops....they tested and found zilch.
    The key is "Published" study. There could be plenty of studies that have found interference.

    Look, it is an airline. If you don't like thier policy then don't fly them. Fly another airline, take the bus, or train. There are always plenty of other options. Why make it harder for yourself. For me it is not worth the effort. It just put it away.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorypierce
    They cannot have you arrested unless you are endangering the normal operations of the aircraft. They can tell you to leave the plane, they can have you detained by airport security, but they cannot have you arrested just for disobeying their orders.
    Yes, but being told to leave the plane at 30,000 feet is much worse!

    They could claim your Treo is endangering the normal operations of the aircraft. Sure, you might win once you go to trial, but is that really worth it?

    Which is more inconvenient, not being able to use your Treo on a flight or being detained by airport security?

    I'm not justifying what some ignorant flight attendants do.

    If/when they wave the rule on no cell phone use on planes, look for the sales of noise cancelling headsets to skyrocket. It might be a good time to buy Bose stock.

    Air travel is annoying enough these days. It will be worse when the people who THINK THEY HAVE TO SHOUT into their phones get to use them on the plane.
    Atlas Just Shrugged!
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo650luvr
    I have to object to this answer. I am a commercial pilot and fly with my treo on my lap in my plane all the time. When a call comes in, it WILL interfere with my headset. It just causes loud static on it. Infact, I usually can't hear the phone ringing, I hear the static. Soon as I answer it, it goes away. It seems to only do it while receiving the call. I do not have it plugged in to any part of my plane. I do agree though that this does not affect my navigation in any way but it does interfere with my hearing ATC at times.
    Are you getting call while you are in the air? If so, what carrier are you with? On occassions where I have forgotten to turn off my Treo, I have never had a signal.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by convbcuda
    Yes, but being told to leave the plane at 30,000 feet is much worse!

    They could claim your Treo is endangering the normal operations of the aircraft. Sure, you might win once you go to trial, but is that really worth it?

    Which is more inconvenient, not being able to use your Treo on a flight or being detained by airport security?
    You are inferring a conclusion about an argument I did not make. I responded to your statement that arguing with a flight attendent. Unless you are being irrate and dangerous or otherwise endangering the craft, you cannot be arrested (i.e you're going to be processed by law enforcement). You SHOULD do whatever they say, but the letter of the law does not specify that a disagreement with flight officials and and argument will result in incarceration.

    As for whether or not it would be worth it to go to trial and win - yes. It is ALWAYS worth fighting for your rights. Always always always. While you don't have a particular 'right' here, if you did - you should fight for it.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Basically, they get to make up the rules.

    There is no "determination" that is done, just blanket policy.

    THERE IS NOT ONE STUDY THAT ANYONE CAN POINT TO THAT SHOWS INTERFERENCE.

    This happened back in the day with the laptops....they tested and found zilch.
    See. laptop's are what started to infuriate me about this arguement. The same flight, the SAME DAMN FLIGHTa guy next to me pulls out his laptop, fires up his aircard (he was two seats away, I watched him) and proceeds to answer emails. The flight attendant passed him three times WHILE HE WAS IN OUTLOOK RECIEVING EMAILS, and no one said a word! He had three bars of signal for over an hour! My Treo, in my pocket with the screen off and radio off, gives off the same "interference" (and I use this term loosely) as it does with the screen on and the radio off! It's ****ing ignorant and they should have to go through some sort of training on "approved devices" or they should shut the hell up! Period.
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    #47  
    I don't see how an aircard could pick up a signal in flight! I ha e never had one work, much les my Treo, and yes, I have tried.

    A couple of bits on interference... I have Bose QC2 headphones... and even when they aren't plugged in (but active) they can hear cell phone transmissions. So I believe some devices can interfere with Pilot comm systems. And although flight attendants (or medically capable air hostesses, as I like to think of them...) do have the right to request you turn off devices if they aren't sure about interference potential. However, if they asked me to turn off my Treo and the guy next to me had an aircard, I would certainly bring it to their attention. One shouldn't be transmitting anything whilst an aircraft is in flight. As for SWA, well, if demonstrating the on/off chime and light of the Treo doesn't satisfy them, leave the thing off and choose a different carrier next time. But most of all... have fun Treoing...
    Palm III -> Palm V -> Blue Palm Vx w/Omnisky -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorypierce
    They cannot have you arrested unless you are endangering the normal operations of the aircraft. They can tell you to leave the plane, they can have you detained by airport security, but they cannot have you arrested just for disobeying their orders.
    Actually, they can.
    Interference With Flight Crew Members or Flight Attendants -- 49 U.S.C. 46504
    One who assaults, threatens, or intimidates a flight crew member or attendant while aboard an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States, and thereby interferes with the performance of that crew member's duties or lessens the ability of that crew member to perform his/her duties is punishable under this subsection.

    The powers of a pilot in command (the captain) of a commercial aircraft are very similar to that of a ship at sea. His word is very close to law, and the flight attendant is his/her agent. If they tell you to do something, do it. Otherwise, take your chances. You may eventually win in court (in court, anything is possible), but I can tell you that if they want to have you taken off of the aircraft in handcuffs and arrested, it will probably happen. These incidents fall under FBI jurisdiction, and the FBI tends to take the statements of the flight crew as gospel. I was involved in several arrests of passengers aboard commercial aircraft as a local officer at the destination point, and the FBI agent that responded in each case didn't even interview the suspect before he directed me to transport them to the local jail and book them. I don't recall what the bail was, except that it was more than I typically carry around with me.
    You can play amateur (or maybe even real) lawyer in these situations, and you may eventually win the war, but I suspect that you will lose the battle, and embarrassingly so. Even if I was more libertarian-minded than I am, I don't think this would be the hill I would pick to die on. I'll just bring a paperback novel and play games on my Treo when I get there.
  9. #49  
    This is all silliness anyways. Airlines know that these things do nothing. If they did, they would not even allow you to carry these things on board.

    "Your phone will have us plummeting to earth, so bring it aboard, just make sure it's off."

    Reminds me of the government not allowing Kevin Mitnick to use a phone while he was in jail, because he may launch nuclear warheads by just whistling tones into a phone.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #50  
    the whole thing stinks i agree....i do believe that airlines are more interested in your attention during an emergency with respect to cell phone usage. if every passenger was yammering away on their own cell phone and the fa's are trying to get people to listen and take orders...might be kind of tough when time is of the essence. do i think the whole interferrence with communications thing is a bunch of bs? yep...and ive heard of studies that have tested how usage effects navigational and communication instruments in airplanes with no ill effects.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by z3bum
    I don't see how an aircard could pick up a signal in flight! I ha e never had one work, much les my Treo, and yes, I have tried.

    A couple of bits on interference... I have Bose QC2 headphones... and even when they aren't plugged in (but active) they can hear cell phone transmissions. So I believe some devices can interfere with Pilot comm systems. And although flight attendants (or medically capable air hostesses, as I like to think of them...) do have the right to request you turn off devices if they aren't sure about interference potential. However, if they asked me to turn off my Treo and the guy next to me had an aircard, I would certainly bring it to their attention. One shouldn't be transmitting anything whilst an aircraft is in flight. As for SWA, well, if demonstrating the on/off chime and light of the Treo doesn't satisfy them, leave the thing off and choose a different carrier next time. But most of all... have fun Treoing...
    You are right. And I shouldn't get so worked up, but it is just one of those things that push my buttons, and SWA are the worst offenders. Never had another flight attendant on any other airline do anything more than ask to see that the "cell" part was off. Once they did, they smiled and moved on. SWA, or "Cattle Call" as I like to think of them, MUST be using some pretty damn cheap equipment if it picks up interference from an ENTIRELY different frequency.
    And yes, hard as it was for me to believe the guy had signal on his aircard.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
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  12. #52  
    I thought the answer was post# 196 and 198 in this thread.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...&page=10&pp=20

    Not that I am advocating its use, of course.
    Last edited by cahsdad; 04/06/2005 at 05:52 PM. Reason: added disclaimer
    Treo 700P (& GoodLink Administrator)
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  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Male flight attendant...pretty much explains it all.
    Careful, or you might get *****slapped!
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by holmes4
    Um, all electronics off means just that. You should have turned off the Treo. 10 minutes after takeoff you could start playing games again.
    But even if you put it to sleep, it's not *really* off, now is it? You'd have to open it up and pull the battery. Not that *they* understand the difference, but facts are facts.

    Frankly, I'd sleep it when I saw them coming and then just wake it back up. Naturally, the radio stays turned off.
  15. #55  
    yeh, especially the attendant is a male one... yes, I learn a bit from reading this post ...
    Not quite sure what being male has to do with it *tap* *tap* *tap* But then I'm used to snyde remarks about gay people -- or people you assume are gay due to profession...
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo650luvr
    I am a commercial pilot and fly with my treo on my lap in my plane all the time. When a call comes in, it WILL interfere with my headset. It just causes loud static on it. Infact, I usually can't hear the phone ringing, I hear the static.
    Sure... you can simulate this simply by placing most any GSM phone near an external computer speaker. We get to hear that all day long at work with various GSM phones lurking about.

    My understanding is that the buzzing is not actually the *data* being transmitted but instead cause by the frequency at which the GSM antenna cycles on and off during certain phases of a call or data session. Thus, once the call is active and the antenna stays active, the buzzing stops.
  17. #57  
    "Federal Air Marshalls want inflight cellphones"

    Just to further the discussion...

    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000420024071/
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  18. #58  
    and this one...

    "FCC to review cellphone ban in planes"

    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000677023279/
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by z3bum
    I don't see how an aircard could pick up a signal in flight! I ha e never had one work, much les my Treo, and yes, I have tried.
    Actually anytime I am under 5000 feet or so in my Cessna 182 I can get calls. I do a lot of aerial photography and fly low so I get calls without a problem. The two things that wont allow phones to work on the airliners is speed and altitude. Try getting a signal about 3 miles out from landing. You will definitely get one. The plane has slowed down and is under 5000 feet.

    "Age is only a number society has inflicted upon us to number our days on Earth."
    ~Stephen Todd
  20. hsk
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo650luvr
    Try getting a signal about 3 miles out from landing. You will definitely get one. The plane has slowed down and is under 5000 feet.
    Yeah, and that's probably the time they DON'T want you yammering on your cell phone, if it really does interfere with radio communications from air traffic. Never tested it, I always took their word for it.
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