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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by taroliw
    Well, they can't do OTA because they aren't running 4.0. But they did completely delete and re-create my profile. But it still won't connect over WAP -- right from the get-go. We're going to try and revert it back to 3.8 and see if that fairs any better. What a hassle...
    Ok..I am confused. I thought it was connecting over WAP*, but not ISP*
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    Ok..I am confused. I thought it was connecting over WAP*, but not ISP*
    pardon me... misttype Yes, that is correct... it would not connect over ISP.

    I just got off the phone with Cingular, who double checked and re-pushed provisioning to my phone. No change so far, though I think I need to reinstall the client in order to get the provisioning to goodlink redone? This is still a huge question I have yet to get an answer on: How (and when) does the client get an IP address for the server? What is this based on? If something is wrong with my setup (or wireless provisioning), then I need some idea of what to focus on.

    I've even gone so far as to completely hard reset (erased data) from the device, so we could do a cabled install on our 3.8 GL server... still got 198.76.161.10 and would only connect over WAP. Wouldn't even sync up with the services until I changed from ISP to WAP. So I would *guess* that the decision for server happens very early in the setup process... but I still don't know what it's based upon.

    I'm going to try reinstalling 4.0.3.6 now that Cingular has reprovisioned and see if it makes any difference. Any information at all that you can find about this is greatly appreciated. I can't imagine it should be difficult to get, since this is a pretty fundamental part of the install and setup....
  3.    #23  
    Well, I got approval to call direct to Good for support and within 5 minutes had the answer to my question. There are two LOVELY KB articles, ID 17138 and 17095, that lay it all out in black and white.

    The server IP is provisioned to the Goodlink client AT THE TIME OF CLIENT INSTALLATION. The IP is chosen -- please be sure you are seated -- based on your cellular service provider.

    198.76.161.10 == Cingular
    216.136.156.75 == Sprint, AT&T Wireless, T-Mobile

    And, based on 17138, it sounds like the Cingular gateway only supports IP subnets such as 10.200 or 10.216 -- subnets that appear to only be served by Cingular's WAP gateway. In my own experience I had the following results:

    WAP
    IP: 10.194.170.146
    GW: 10.197.170.0

    can ping 198.76.161.10
    can ping 216.136.156.75

    ISP
    IP: 166.170.3.6
    GW: 166.170.3.0

    no ping to 198.76.161.10
    can ping 216.136.156.75

    ISPDA
    IP: 166.138.203.152
    GW: 166.138.203.0

    no ping to 198.76,161.10
    can ping 216.136.156.75
    I have coworkers who transitioned from AT&T to Cingular after installing Good who use the AT&T gateway (and didn't realize there was a difference) without any problems. I've inquired with Good support to verify whether the Carrier choice in profile setup gets used for any other purpose, and the answer seems to be no. So tomorrow I'm going to bug my GL admin to p provision me as an AT&T customer and cross my fingers.
  4. #24  
    WOW! I am going to have to check that out. Thank so much for your patience and dillgence in this. I have learned as much as you have from this situation. Let me know it goes. I had a feeling it had to do with ATT/Cing changes and IP switches as there was a slight issue last week with some customers on Cing.
  5.    #25  
    Well, according to the feedback from the support engineer yesterday there are apparently an increasing number of affected Cingular customers. I got the impression that they (Good) have been getting a lot of complaints about it.
  6. #26  
    As I said, last week there was an issue with Cingular customers that was attibuted to some network changes withing Cing/AT&T
  7.    #27  
    No, this is over the last *year*, not a few weeks -- note the date on the two KB articles when you open them. But I imagine as time goes on, there will be an increasing number of complaints. Even my case with Cingular is well over a month old.
  8. #28  
    Slight issue? Goodlink was out of service for almost an entire day ..... I wouldn't call that slight given how many BB users we've converted to Treos w/ Goodlink .......

    I've had the WAP/ISP issue since I switched from Sprint to Cingular ...... I've talked to Cingular as has our IT group with no luck tracking down the issue. Thank you for your dilligence Taroliw ...... I had given on up ever getting this resolved .......
  9.    #29  
    My advice to you, fmastr, is get your IT on Cingular's back and get them on their back HARD. I dont' think they're going to take note of this unless more customers -- or larger accounts -- make it clear that lack of resolution on issues like this may be worthy of contract cancellations or seriously risk their chances of keeping contracts at renewal time.

    I called back into them today and found my case CLOSED without explanation. After an hour of hounding on the agent (data support; 866-490-2666) -- and having to listen to him decide whether it was worth submitting a new case for! -- he did resubmit a case for me. Afterward, he admitted that he had difficulty understanding what the problem was because the traceroutes and networking information I was providing was over his head (!!?!?!).

    I must admit I had my fun though... particularly when he was questioning whether he had all the details needed. I responded "Well, if you give me an email (he didn't) I can send them to you because I've kept every last one... or you could just log into TreoCentral and read the thread I started on the topic. All this stuff is logged there, and so will the results of this phone call." I think I heard him gasp, and then he put me on hold for about 10 minutes. Believe it guys... if we get the word and out and people who are being affected by this problem start REPORTING it, they will take notice... both Cingular and Good.

    To Good support's credit, they are doing what they can -- this was only day two for them. My issue there is being escalated into engineering, mostly because any kind of change can only be affected by them. It also turns out that they may have contacts at Cingular to drive this issue as well. I encourage people who report this issue let us know in this thread so that we can glean whatever we learn about this from each other and use it to build pressure.

    What freakin' amazes me about this is that it's such a stupid problem and so easy to fix! It feels like we may be in the home stretch, but putting as much pressure on them (esp. Cingular) as possible now may better ensure they wake up, take notice, and fix something that shouldn't have spent this much time broken. I recall saying to the Cingular guy saying, "Well, I realize you don't think this is a problem, but I'm ready to pay a termination fee, buy a new Treo, just so I can switch to your competition on CDMA... that's how pissed off I am!" And, truth be told, I may still wind up doing this depending on how it all works out.
  10. #30  
    our IT group is now pushing on Cingular + Good also providing the info you've found ...... hopefully we can get this to resolution ....... thanks again taroliw ........
  11.    #31  
    So, at this point we've pretty much confirmed that either (1) Cingular must fix it's routing problem that prevents non-WAP customers from using Goodlink services OR (2) Goodlink should be permitted to issue Cingular customers a different IP address depending on their mode of service.

    Haven't heard back from Cingular on the case they re-opened on Thursday, but I'm going to call today to try and preempt them from closing it again. Still no word from the guys I last spoke to a Good, though I trust so far that they are doing what they can.

    I find it very amusing that Cingular would take the step of announcing this new and wonderful service at a time when a good portion of their customers couldn't take advantage of it if they wanted to....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cingular Press Release
    ATLANTA and SANTA CLARA, Calif., May 31 /PRNewswire/ -- Cingular
    Wireless today added a powerful wireless e-mail and data capability
    to its broad range of solutions for business customers by directly
    offering GoodLink(TM), Good Technology's award-winning wireless
    messaging and data access software and service. Cingular is the
    first wireless cellular company in North America to offer GoodLink
    directly to its B2B clients.


    The new GoodLink solution from Cingular Wireless offers robust email
    and PIM capabilities on a choice of powerful Palm OS(R) and Windows
    Mobile(TM) business devices. Customers will achieve greater
    efficiency with unified billing and support services from Cingular.
    "Cingular Wireless is extending its leadership position in the
    wireless e-mail space through its alliance with Good Technology,"
    said Jeff Bradley, vice president, business data services, for
    Cingular Wireless. "GoodLink is an outstanding addition to our
    portfolio of robust, enterprise-grade offerings for businesses. It
    provides a cost-efficient and easy-to-implement solution through
    which customers can access business-critical messaging and PIM
    applications on the devices they prefer on the largest digital
    wireless data network in the country."
    "We are thrilled to bring Cingular's industry-leading reach, high-
    speed EDGE network, and expertise in enterprise wireless solutions
    to our common customers," said Danny Shader, CEO, Good
    Technology. "Together, Cingular and Good will accelerate enterprise
    adoption of wireless messaging by simplifying the purchase and
    support process for customers, and by offering a broad choice of
    industry standards-based handhelds and wireless applications on the
    nation's largest wireless data network."
    Robust GoodLink Features
    GoodLink from Cingular provides business customers with:
    - Continuous two-way wireless synchronization of all Microsoft
    Outlook
    functions, such as e-mail, calendar, contacts, notes and tasks, when
    within Cingular coverage areas;
    - Intuitive, Outlook-like interface with robust productivity
    features on
    popular, standards-based device platforms;
    - Enterprise-class, FIPS-certified security including end-to-end AES
    data
    encryption, remote data wipe and remote password policy management;
    and
    - Secure Over-The-Air(TM) device provisioning and management for
    improved
    TCO and simplified IT administration featuring Zero-IT-Touch(TM)
    activations and upgrades of GoodLink and third-party applications.

    Device Choice

    GoodLink runs on popular industry standards-based Palm OS and
    Windows Mobile devices from Cingular Wireless. Cingular's palmOne
    Treo(TM) 650 combines familiar Palm PDA features with a phone and
    access to EDGE, the fastest national wireless data network in the
    U.S., for quick wireless e-mail, attachments, and web browsing. The
    Siemens SX66 Pocket PC is a powerful phone/PDA combination running
    an Intel(R) 400MHz processor and features the user-friendly Windows
    Mobile Pocket PC interface and unique slide-out keyboard. With
    GoodLink from Cingular, customers also can stay connected to their
    corporate e-mail overseas using these quad-band devices. Cingular
    has the largest global roaming presence of any U.S. wireless
    provider, giving customers access to data in more than 80 countries
    and to voice services in over 160 countries.
    "Enterprises investing in wireless e-mail want a combination of a
    powerful data network, device choice, and a secure, easy-to-use and
    manage wireless messaging and PIM system," said Kevin Burden,
    Program Manager, Mobile Devices, IDC. "Cingular Wireless and Good
    Technology are bringing these essential elements together in a
    unified, cost-effective solution that should enable both companies
    to grow their footprint in the enterprise market."
    All-Inclusive Package
    Cingular is offering GoodLink as an end-to-end service for a monthly
    fee of $44.99 per month for unlimited data with a qualified voice
    plan. Customers must purchase a $1,500 one-year Starter Pak and a
    one-time $99 per user GoodLink Client Access license. With the
    Starter Pak, GoodLink customers get the convenience of one full year
    of IT support directly from Good Technology as well as enterprise-
    grade support from Cingular's business customer care group for the
    life of their contract.
    GoodLink from Cingular is available through Cingular's direct B2B
    sales organization. For more information or to arrange to speak with
    a B2B account manager, call 1-866-429-7222 or visit
    http://www.cingular.com/goodlink .
    Cingular Wireless serves customers in 95 of the Fortune 100
    companies, and counts more than 80 percent of the Fortune 500 and
    over 1,200 federal, state and local agencies as clients. GoodLink is
    in use in nearly 6,000 enterprises including seven of the Fortune
    10, and over half of the Fortune 50.
    About Cingular Wireless
    Cingular Wireless is the largest wireless carrier in the United
    States, serving more than 50.4 million customers. Cingular, a joint
    venture between SBC Communications Inc. and BellSouth Corporation ,
    has the largest digital voice and data network in the nation -- the
    ALLOVER(SM) network -- and the largest mobile-to-mobile community of
    any national wireless carrier. Cingular is the only U.S. wireless
    carrier to offer Rollover(SM), the wireless plan that lets customers
    keep their unused monthly minutes. Details of the company are
    available at http://www.cingular.com/ . Get Cingular Wireless press
    releases e-mailed to you automatically. Sign up at
    http://cingular.com/newsroom .
    About Good Technology
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by taroliw
    I find it very amusing that Cingular would take the step of announcing this new and wonderful service at a time when a good portion of their customers couldn't take advantage of it if they wanted to....
    "Good portion" is a pretty broad statement. I am truly sorry for the issues you are having, however, we do have 1000's of users on Cingular right now that are not having the problems you are.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    "Good portion" is a pretty broad statement. I am truly sorry for the issues you are having, however, we do have 1000's of users on Cingular right now that are not having the problems you are.
    Anyone who does what their B2B site (actually http://www.cingular.com/good/, not http://www.cingular.com/goodlink/ as their release suggests) says... buys a Treo 600 with data service... and actually configures that device to use the PDA unlimited plan that they'd normally force you on to, is *going* to have problems. It's reproducible, and it's undeniable. Unless those customers dumb down their device to WAP, the configuration delivered will not work.

    If a customer is willing to pay upwards of $30 more to use WAP per month, more power to them. But I will make it a point to be very clear for anyone who finds this troubling that there IS a reason why it doesn't work the way it should.
  14. #34  
    Again, you are making broad statements. Your issue, while reproducible, is NOT undeniably doing to happen to every Cingular user.

    That page you are looking at is NOT the current offering. We are on version 4.0, not 3.0, Cingular is pushing the 650, not the 600. You do not buy data service from Cingular under the recently announced partnership, but rather a "GoodLink" data plan.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    Again, you are making broad statements. Your issue, while reproducible, is NOT undeniably doing to happen to every Cingular user.
    Wordsmith all you want. If you have a PDA device, they generally tell you (I've heard people use the word "force," but if you're insistent enough you can get them to do otherwise) you must purchase a PDA unlimited data plan (i.e. ISP or ISPDA GPRS profile). But as we know, if you attempt to actually use that profile with Goodlink, it will fail. The only alternative -- from the "of course it works" folks -- is to instead use the WAP profile. "But it's the same," I hear people complain. Check out the pricing difference between MEdiaWorks (WAP) and PDA Unlimited data (ISP/ISPDA) and then come back and tell me that.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    That page you are looking at is NOT the current offering. We are on version 4.0, not 3.0, Cingular is pushing the 650, not the 600. You do not buy data service from Cingular under the recently announced partnership, but rather a "GoodLink" data plan.
    No problem, but right now that would seem to be the only information they have out there. In my email to the marketing folks, I admit this information may not be current... but this may generate confusion for customers since the actual page they refer to isn't online yet. Do you know the terms of the "Goodlink" data plan? Is it a WAP or ISP profile? If Cingular is selling WAP to these customers, then I guess they won't have a problem. But this doesn't alleviate the problem for PDA customers not purchasing their Goodlink service this way -- which might well include corporate users such as the other poster here who suggested they and their IT department tried to isolate this same issue for SIX MONTHS.

    Am I suggesting that every Cingular customer is having a problem? No. But by the same token, I'm not going to have feedback from the other users I've heard from in response to this thread (both public and private), nor the direct feedback I got from Good support ("yeah, we're hearing this from more and more Cingular customers"), belittled because people are uncomfortable that there is a problem here. Whatever issue I may have with either company at this point has a great deal less to do about the fact that a problem exists than it does about how they go about addressing (or avoiding) it.

    And I really hate to tell you this... but it doesn't matter how many times you insist there isn't a problem. There IS a problem, a DOCUMENTED problem, and so far -- at least six months if you trust the response from the other poster -- nothing appears to have been done to fix it. I wonder if the issue hasn't existed even longer, since the date on the Good KB articles is back to May 2004. But that, in itself, really isn't the point of this thread -- quibbling about when the problem started or *precisely* how many people are affected. This thread is about making sure people are aware of the problem and helping facilitate, in whatever way possible, it's solution. Anything else is a pointless distraction.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by taroliw
    Wordsmith all you want. If you have a PDA device, they generally tell you (I've heard people use the word "force," but if you're insistent enough you can get them to do otherwise) you must purchase a PDA unlimited data plan (i.e. ISP or ISPDA GPRS profile). But as we know, if you attempt to actually use that profile with Goodlink, it will fail. The only alternative -- from the "of course it works" folks -- is to instead use the WAP profile. "But it's the same," I hear people complain. Check out the pricing difference between MEdiaWorks (WAP) and PDA Unlimited data (ISP/ISPDA) and then come back and tell me that.


    No problem, but right now that would seem to be the only information they have out there. In my email to the marketing folks, I admit this information may not be current... but this may generate confusion for customers since the actual page they refer to isn't online yet. Do you know the terms of the "Goodlink" data plan? Is it a WAP or ISP profile? If Cingular is selling WAP to these customers, then I guess they won't have a problem. But this doesn't alleviate the problem for PDA customers not purchasing their Goodlink service this way -- which might well include corporate users such as the other poster here who suggested they and their IT department tried to isolate this same issue for SIX MONTHS.

    Am I suggesting that every Cingular customer is having a problem? No. But by the same token, I'm not going to have feedback from the other users I've heard from in response to this thread (both public and private), nor the direct feedback I got from Good support ("yeah, we're hearing this from more and more Cingular customers"), belittled because people are uncomfortable that there is a problem here. Whatever issue I may have with either company at this point has a great deal less to do about the fact that a problem exists than it does about how they go about addressing (or avoiding) it.

    And I really hate to tell you this... but it doesn't matter how many times you insist there isn't a problem. There IS a problem, a DOCUMENTED problem, and so far -- at least six months if you trust the response from the other poster -- nothing appears to have been done to fix it. I wonder if the issue hasn't existed even longer, since the date on the Good KB articles is back to May 2004. But that, in itself, really isn't the point of this thread -- quibbling about when the problem started or *precisely* how many people are affected. This thread is about making sure people are aware of the problem and helping facilitate, in whatever way possible, it's solution. Anything else is a pointless distraction.
    You have made your point about a problem existing for some users. The tone of your posts imply that every Cingular customer has or is going to have this problem. This is simply untrue. Could they have the issue? Sure they could, but it is far from "it will fail". I never said there wasn't a problem, as obviously there is. I completely agree your post is to let people know about a potential problem, and in the same tone, I am actually grateful for users like yourself that are escalating the issue with both organizations and reporting your findings (or lack thereof) here.
  17.    #37  
    Well, not sure if this is progress or not. Seems that the callback they kept closing my case for wasn't the Network Engineer.. but rather the support layer saying that all they can do is refer to management. *sigh* Any Cingular network engineers (or friends or relatives) online here?

    During the conversation I had with this one, she fully agreed that (a) PDA customers are sold (marketing) the PDA unlimited plan giving them the ISP profile (for which they pay almost 2X for unlimited WAP service), (b) that their Goodlink training internally says "this only works on WAP" (duh), and (c) they have no idea when it will work on ISP. So... I have to hope that this manager person gives a damn and actually forwards my case to someone in product management or engineering that might actually understand and do something about it. This was the third Cingular person I was talking to who said things like "what's this traceroute and ping stuff? it doesn't make any sense to me" ugh.

    Is their marketing strategy of selling Treo 650's for use with WAP and charging PDA data rates not making sense to anyone else? At this point, I can't do anything but consider the issue dead. Here's to hoping that the guys I talked to a Good can manage some change, or that another solution that will actually work with the PDA data plan becomes available... well, at least for Cingular -- since the GL Server address everyone else on the planet gets works just fine.

    I have to admit also being very unamused by the fact that the only reason this is happening is because of the business agreement between Cingular and Good. From the variety of conversations I've had with both sides, this seems to have been the driver for the special Cingular IP address.
  18.    #38  
    I've utlimately decided this isn't worth my banging my head against a wall. Between the headaches of using the service with PDA data plan on Cingular and the inherent instability (seems to be mostly too large a memory footprint in dynamic heap) when using Goodlink with ChatterEmail and Verichat -- for example, Blazer wouldn't even launch due to too little dynamic heap available and treo frequently crashed -- I've decided to unload GoodLink permanently and begin my search for a reasonable alternative. I also wasn't particularly fond of the fact that GL didn't seem to allow me to continue to properly integrate contacts data with other Palm applications (incl built-in stuff from Palm itself!).

    So far, Chatter is doing push email (via IMAP IDLE) from Exchange like a real champ... and this is mostly what I care about on a regular basis. Runners up are calendar and Exchange GAL, which while I would *prefer* be sync'ed wirelessly doesn't seem to be possible with the other solutions available now: Exchange ActiveSync, Blackberry Connect, PocketMirror, or KeySuite. I am thinking that periodic sync will be OK in my case, and that PocketMirror is nice because it doens't require I replace the built-in DB's with something else. KeySuite sounds potentially interesting, too, but I've grown leary of installing bloatware (it's about 2MB like GL in RAM, but now sure how it compares on dynamic heap usage) full-function PIM apps like this on my device. I'd rather something that talked to the existing DB's and integrated nicely with the apps.

    If anyone knows of other possibilities that might suit this, please do let me know.
  19. #39  
    Seven (who makes the desktop Sprint BCS client and Cingular XpressMail client) has a server platform ...... we may take a look at that - i've spoke to a couple of other companies that are running it who have spoke highly of it. It's too bad because we really like the Good platform but we are not going to continue swapping back and forth between PDA + ISP ....... and as you've said communicating with Cingular and Good on this has got us nowhere in resolving this .......
  20.    #40  
    That's a thought. But in my case, where IT already supports both BES and Goodlink (yeah, long story)... I will need something that doesn't need a back-end other than Exchange or IMAP itself. Redirectors are OK, but I'd prefer something client-only if possible. Nexchange has caught my eye, and I think I may give it a try. The advantage over PocketMirror is that it works OTA... but it is still in a beta release.
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