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  1. ink883's Avatar
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    I don't need someone else to tell me what the difference between right and wrong is.

    Finding a P1 page with a paragraph you feel is sympathetic to your view does not make the activity at all right.

    Notice what you found was on the Bluetooth Discovery Troubleshooting page. The kind of thing someone might look at after having been jacked! And it is a warning IMHO like lock your door or somebody might walk in. While such warnings are helpful (unlike the blue jackers who are not) it does not legitimize the activity.
    Palm is not telling you right from wrong; they are explaining how the tech works (thinking palms article was created to warn people about bluejacking is completely baseless).

    I fear you donít understand how Bluetooth Discovery works. When you broadcast your presence and tell our device to allow others to communicate, you are giving permission. Why is this so hard to understand? Please donít spread false information on how this technology works. Maybe once people learn how it works they wonít be scared if someone send them a message.

    For example, when you signed up for an account on treocentral you may have set up your profile to give permission so people can send you private messages. With your reasoning I send you a message via treocentral saying, ďHave a nice dayĒ and include a pic of my dog, I am on the same level of a thief breaking into your house and stealing your credit cards. Surely, you must see how silly this argument sounds.

    As I see it, all you are doing is spreading fear and misinformation on this topic. If you donít see how turning discovery on is permission, provide me and everyone else a link explaining the tech as you see it. Bashing my evidence doesnít prove your view is an accurate representation of reality. This isnít something people need to fear and isnít in the same ballpark as theft or breaking and entering.
    Last edited by ink883; 04/03/2005 at 11:59 PM.
  2. #102  
    Some people are so close-minded! Especially on this board, it seems.
    1 | 2
  3. #103  
    I think we all know right and wrong to a fully functional extent. Now here's the thing: We all know grabbing a knife and stabbing someone is wrong, yet everyday someone, somewhere does it, regardless of our desires for an ideal world where it just doesn't happen. The real task at hand (instead of pushing for "should's" and "should not's") is to always be the wiser and protect ourselves from potentially hazardous situations that do and WILL exist despite our efforts to completely abolish them.

    For example, we know that leaving our car doors unlocked is not necessarily an invitation for thieves, but thieves do exist and you never know if theres one around, so why be foolish and make it easier for them? Common sense is all it takes in that situation right? Well, its no different elsewhere. The world is not going to cease throwing harmful situations at you, so why should you throw your common sense to the floor and arrogantly expect to be unharmed or inconvenienced, at the least?

    Is it that common sense is a dying trait among us or is there a conscious effort to be stupid? Either way theres no excuse for this arrogant expectation to be "untouched." Protect yourself and expect danger. That is the way life has always been and how we survived and grew to be so intelligent up till now... Unfortunately, technology is now keeping alive those whom would have normally caused their own deletion from the gene pool. Darwin would be proud to see us at this apex of idiocy, I'm sure.
    .
  4. #104  
    What is needed as far as jacking and BT and this thread is concerned is etiquette, in other words being polite.

    1. Pranks or practical jokes on people you know can be fun and expectable.
    2. Pranks and practical jokes on strangers, hmm, I donít think so. But of course we enjoy it when it is turned into a TV show, Smile Youíre on BTÖ
    3. Expectable pranks and jokes are age dependant. Your 5 year old just loves ďpotty humorĒ. Your 13 year old will find it fun to TP their friendís homes. If you are 45 I donít recommend these jokes or activities. Eight years ago at my work I put a fake note in every office mail box saying that a limited number of hams and turkeys have been donated as a holiday gift. I gave the name of who to contact in the main office to let them know what each person wanted. I also said it would be first come first served. I did this late in the evening the day before I went in for major surgery. The next morning the office of the person I played the joke on was inundated with over a hundred people all wanting to be placed on the list. If they read the fine print they would have noticed that it needed to be replied to on the day before and no one qualified. But the person who the joke was played on didnít even get the notice and knew nothing about it. So she spent an hour making a ham and turkey list. When people found out and eventually traced it back to me I was in the hospital and then out for the holidays. They smile and talk about that joke to this day (eight years latter). On top of that the office has gone out of their way to make turkeys available several times since then, in particular the vary next year! Good practical joke no harm done and in the end a positive result. This is just one example of an adult level practical joke.
    4. When you introduce yourself you say who you are and give a reason for the introduction. I.E. hello Iím Dr. Phumble and Iíll be your brain surgeon today. If you use BT to meet people then introduce yourself.
    5. Be polite to friends and strangers alike. Being rude is not a shortcut to being funny no matter how many stand up comics think it is. The best comics donít use what is socially unacceptable to be funny (i.e. Victor Borga).

    Iím sure there are a lot of other considerations to make and I invite anyone here to make suggestions.
    Next time you want to BT-Jake someone ask yourself if what you are doing is socially expectable. If you are not sure may I recommend waiting until you are sure.
    The sending of a picture of your dog was harmless. I think it needed a follow up BT and an introduction to finish the joke and turn it into an introduction.
  5. #105  
    I guess I lied (misbehavior?) because I said I was leaving this thread, but I just couldn't believe the turn it has taken:

    1. Those of you professing the need to practice "safe bluetooth" are right, we do have an obligation to protect number 1.

    2. Bluejacking is WRONG. No different than any other appropriation of anothers property.

    3. EVERY ONE OF YOU RATIONALIZING, CONDONING, JUSTIFYING, ACCEPTING, OR ENCOURAGING THE BLUEJACKING ARE THE ONE'S TRULY IN THE WRONG.

    It is the very lack of public reproach that leads to continuing misbehavior. Would you be willing to tell your best friend it's too bad he got robbed because he left his door unlocked and then JUSTIFY the burglar's act?

    I thought (hope?) not.

    Stop rationaliing the misbehavior by this attitude of "there are bad people out there who are going to do this anyway." EVERYONE knows they are out there - just stop encouraging them by not condemning their misbehavior.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  6. #106  
    This thread makes me want to go out and get bluetooth. I feel like the geeky kid on the playground left out of the games at recess because I don't have the cool toys. I think "tag" sounds fun!

    With the amount of posts I see everyone with on TC, it is obvious the Treo is a bit of a hobby (or obsession) for some. A lot of us get a little thrill when we see TV shows, movies or even ads featuring it. There are threads on what celebrities we've seen carry it.

    Although we don't know eachother at all, TC members have formed an anonymous "bond" because of the passion we have for our devices. Wouldn't that carry over into a game of "tag?" Can you honestly say that you would feel fear and violation if a TC member "tagged" you? Or, would you, for a moment, smile and think "Hey, someone from TC is here! Cool!" For a split second, before the rightous indignation and morality issues have time to steamroll into a feeling of being personally attacked. You wouldn't smile and feel a little like the cool kid in on a private game? I'm just curious...
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130
    This thread makes me want to go out and get bluetooth. I feel like the geeky kid on the playground left out of the games at recess because I don't have the cool toys. I think "tag" sounds fun!

    With the amount of posts I see everyone with on TC, it is obvious the Treo is a bit of a hobby (or obsession) for some. A lot of us get a little thrill when we see TV shows, movies or even ads featuring it. There are threads on what celebrities we've seen carry it.

    Although we don't know eachother at all, TC members have formed an anonymous "bond" because of the passion we have for our devices. Wouldn't that carry over into a game of "tag?" Can you honestly say that you would feel fear and violation if a TC member "tagged" you? Or, would you, for a moment, smile and think "Hey, someone from TC is here! Cool!" For a split second, before the rightous indignation and morality issues have time to steamroll into a feeling of being personally attacked. You wouldn't smile and feel a little like the cool kid in on a private game? I'm just curious...
    I would.... I'll play tag....by choice.

    Threads like this can go on and on with people on both sides trying to convince the other they are right. Evolution, right to life, legalizing pot, homosexuality as a disease, yankees/red sox, democrat or republican, steak or chicken, with or without.....People take sides and a certain percentage of them will never change. It always amazes me that people will keep posting their same opinion, worded differently each time, over and over and over. Post and be done with it. You are not going to change the world, let alone the poster's opinion of it.

    People disagree, it is our nature.

    Tag....you're it!
    ELR
    >> Drop by! <<

    Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
  8. #108  
    Otter...You forgot "I love my Treo!/I hate my Treo!
  9. #109  
    ARGHHHHHHHHH!

    I hate it when I forget the obvious....

    Sorry!

    Can I still play?
    ELR
    >> Drop by! <<

    Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
  10.    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by MFizzel
    Some people are so close-minded! Especially on this board, it seems.

    i think they still dont understand what bluejacking is...lol,like the people who thing all "pitbulls" are bad and no matter what you say/show them they will still thing they are bad same s*** differant stink
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883

    I fear you donít understand how Bluetooth Discovery works.
    Seems some don't understand how respect works.

    Just because you can send me something does not mean I wish to have useless pictures of your pet.

    Sending meaningless data to people you don't know for nothing more than your personal amusement shows a clear lack of maturity and lack of respect.
  12. #112  
    Not too many people are conciously playing "Slug Bug" either, but they're all in as far as I am concerned!

    Maturity is a little overrated
    Live a little and try to smile.... Its good for ya!
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130
    This thread makes me want to go out and get bluetooth.


    LMAO! http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...lies/smile.gif

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130
    With the amount of posts I see everyone with on TC, it is obvious the Treo is a bit of a hobby (or obsession) for some. A lot of us get a little thrill when we see TV shows, movies or even ads featuring it. There are threads on what celebrities we've seen carry it.


    I've had mine for a little over a year, so I am no longer obssessed by it and I'm guilty of posting one celebrity siting. http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...ies/tongue.gif

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130
    Although we don't know eachother at all, TC members have formed an anonymous "bond" because of the passion we have for our devices. Wouldn't that carry over into a game of "tag?" Can you honestly say that you would feel fear and violation if a TC member "tagged" you? Or, would you, for a moment, smile and think "Hey, someone from TC is here! Cool!" For a split second, before the rightous indignation and morality issues have time to steamroll into a feeling of being personally attacked. You wouldn't smile and feel a little like the cool kid in on a private game? I'm just curious...


    You're right about the "bond" thing, yet there are Treo users all over the world; what are the chances of playing a game of tag with another TC member? http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...s/confused.gif Hell, some of them wont walk away from the keyboard.
    ~ ScandaLous ~
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Otter Emperor
    It always amazes me that people will keep posting their same opinion, worded differently each time, over and over and over. Post and be done with it. You are not going to change the world, let alone the poster's opinion of it.

    People disagree, it is our nature.

    Tag....you're it!
    You noticed that too?
    ~ ScandaLous ~
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by clownracer
    i think they still dont understand what bluejacking is...lol,like the people who thing all "pitbulls" are bad and no matter what you say/show them they will still thing they are bad same s*** differant stink
    ROFLMAO! Well Clown, to be honest, if you had sent me a pic of your dog, I would have been pissed cause I think that dog is ugly!

    Also, in terms of bluejacking, initially, everything that has ever been said about it has shown it in a negative light. I havent come across too many sites where its is spoken of in a positive way.
    Last edited by scandalex; 04/04/2005 at 11:19 AM.
    ~ ScandaLous ~
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Seems some don't understand how respect works.

    Just because you can send me something does not mean I wish to have useless pictures of your pet.

    Sending meaningless data to people you don't know for nothing more than your personal amusement shows a clear lack of maturity and lack of respect.
    Darnell, if you keep this up, you're going to suffer a massive stroke. http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...ilies/wink.gif But before you do, answer this for me. If someone bluejacked you with "useful" data, would you still be this irritated? Or better yet, if Clown had sent the stranger something useful, would you still say it was wrong?
    ~ ScandaLous ~
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by scandalex
    If someone bluejacked you with "useful" data, would you still be this irritated? Or better yet, if Clown had sent the stranger something useful, would you still say it was wrong?
    Like I've said in one of these many posts , if the sender sends a message helping the person that was jacked to secure their phone that is cool. If they send a message saying "fire" and there really is a fire that's great. If they send a message saying "fire" and there is no fire that's terrible. If they send me a picture of their dog that's pretty annoying and useless.

    So like with my phone number and someone calling if they call me with something that is useful of course that's cool. But a crank call is never nice.

    Same with the PM feature on this message board. If you PM me with something related to a post that is helpful then that is cool. But if you PM me with a pic of your dog or something else useless then that is pretty disrespectful.
  18. ink883's Avatar
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    #118  
    I just want people to be clear on some terms and how the tech works.

    Darnell Ė it sounds like you are backing away from the idea of bluejacking as theft of information, thank you, and I take to heart your comments about not yelling fire, and agree with them. It not OK to scare people you donít know, and I donít like people to send the message ďyou have been bluejacked.Ē

    Dstrauss Ė bluejacking is not the theft of information you are thinking about Bluesnarfing (that is not what this thread is about, any theft analogy only adds to misinformation and confusion of the activity this thread is discussing)

    Bluejacking - the sending of information from one BT device to another. With most phones the receiver must give permission (on multiple levels). 1st the receiver must set his/her phone to discoverable. 2nd on most phones once the file is received the user must then accept the file. There is no theft of data or personal information at all.

    Bluesnarfing Ėis the theft of information from a wireless device through a Bluetooth connection. This is theft and it can happen anytime you BT device is on (independent of whether BT discovery is on or off)

    I agree with Daffydd, with any form on information (including wearing t-shirts) people should use some etiquette and common sense, and that will vary with the circumstances and your environment.

    I donít send offensive or malicious messages to elicit fear or hated. I do like to send Bluetooth fortunes (same that you would find in a cookie) and famous quotes. If you think that is theft, I suggest you send a letter a your congressman and then attack people who send you spam, mailed advertisements, flyers on your window, and of course people who wear t-shirts with anything written on them (since those are all forms of information that is being pushed on you).

    Here are some links so people can educate themselves on different BT activities. I hope those who are unclear will take the time to understand the difference between what is messaging and what is theft, then decide for themselves what level of protection they need or if they want, join in the fun and play.

    What is Bluejacking: http://www.bluejackq.com/what-is-bluejacking.shtml

    What is Bluesnarfing: http://searchmobilecomputing.techtar...952393,00.html

    Bluetooth security: http://www.thebunker.net/security/bluetooth.htm

    Tag, your it!
    Last edited by ink883; 04/04/2005 at 12:30 PM.
  19. #119  
    ink883:

    Theft of information is not my point - this is breaking and entering; unauthorized use of another's property; whatever you want to call it. But again, I'll concede we won't change the minds of the bluejackers (anymore than we'll "talk" a burglar into leaving us alone)

    HOWEVER, we don't need to rationalize, condone, encourage, or worst still, look the other way when folks do wrong.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  20. ink883's Avatar
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    #120  
    If you are not saying its theft of information, may i suggest you don't use terms like burgler, and instread use terms like tresspass. This way people don't get confused.
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