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  1. #21  
    Checking the other news:

    "Thirty-seven more 'iPod Killers' were released today, and yet for some reason, people keep buying iPods. We here at the news room are shocked......................."
    Somebody....anybody........................Don't let Dr. Doom spill his Kool-Aid on his brand new "perrywinkle" sweater vest!!!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by barky81
    So, first, you carry 2 devices. That puts you in one camp. Me in another.
    I could use just the T650, but I wanted to have the data used by the Blackberry on a totally seperate device. But OK.

    Second, you don't know anything about Exchange Activesync. Again, you in one camp. Me in another.
    Wrong. Why you assume you are the only one here with knowlege of Exchange Activesync is beyond me. But you can think of yourself as knowing more as much as you wish.

    Third, you think it is cheaper to give your staff Treo 650s AND Blackberries and buy BOTH Exchange Server 2003 and a Blackberry Enterprise Server, INSTEAD of just Treo 650s and Exchange Server... Hate to say it, but: you in one camp. Me in another.
    I KNOW it is cheaper to just have a Blackberry with BES and Exchange Server, which is what most companies do. It would cost more to have the T650s with Exchange. The Blackberries are just that cheap to buy compared to the T650.

    Fourth, you think that palmOne's market is getting T600 users to upgrade to T650s, but NOT use the additional functionality. (What was the "consultant's" rationale for the upgrade, given that they did NOT want Exchange Activesync?) I mean, after all that was your anecdote, right?
    People including that consultant are upgrading for features outside of MS Exchange. And there are plenty of additional features. For you the MS Exchange issue is a deal breaker, but not for many others.

    Fifth, and finally, you think this statement (which you made) "So Symbian will have a feature Blackberries have had for years now." is just of passing interest and not really relevant, so much so that, "even without ActiveSync the Treo will remain a contender." Say it with me now: you in one camp. Me in another.
    Say it with me now, "the Treo is not in the coffin".

    The fight is about upsetting the Blackberry market. I think even RIM recognizes that it cannot survive as a separate device in a converging world. So the real question is Blackberry versus Exchange. Which is where this thread originated.
    Funny how there was no mention of Blackberries till posters other than you said it.

    So my questions for you are: (1) A year from now, will there be more Symbian OS phones with Exchange Activesync on them or will there be more standalone Blackberries?
    There will be more Blackberries. Symbian is not going to "take off" the way you expect IMHO.

    (2) A year from now, will there be more Symbian OS phones with Exchange Activesync on them or will there be more Palm OS phones with Exchange Activesync on them?
    A year from now the T650 will be history and the next Treo will probably do it better than the T650, so more Palm OS phones.

    (3) A year from now, will there be more Symbian OS phones actually sysncing with Exchange Activesync or will there be more Blackberry-enabled phones actually syncing with Blackberry Enterprise Server?
    Blackberry wins again.

    Don't expect much to change in the next year, but if it does you can stop by and say "I told you so" .
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ButtUglyJeff
    Checking the other news:

    "Thirty-seven more 'iPod Killers' were released today, and yet for some reason, people keep buying iPods. We here at the news room are shocked......................."
    Jeff, you might be "buttugly" but you get it .
  4. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    I KNOW it is cheaper to just have a Blackberry with BES and Exchange Server, which is what most companies do. It would cost more to have the T650s with Exchange. The Blackberries are just that cheap to buy compared to the T650.
    I don't know who makes the financial IT-related decisions for your company, but I hate to tell you, using BES + MS Exchange is much more expensive than just buying T650's that use ActiveSync to sync with Exchange, which I think is what barkly was getting at.

    BES licenses cost about $250 each plus the actual exchange license which is another $250, not to mention the cost of the Blackberry equipment which is another $200-$400. So by the time you have deployed BES w/ MS Exchange you're paying at least $700+ per user. As where if your using ActiveSync you're paying for the Exchange license and plus the cost of the T650, which is roughly $550 with new service activation and rebates.

    Also, keep in mind that BES licenses are renewed yearly, so you are going to incur a $250.00 per user change every year from Blackberry.

    Just thought I'd put in my .02 on the issue... "You in one camp. Me in another"
  5. #25  
    I guess different buyers get different prices for Blackberries, but I know folks getting the devices for less than the $200-$400 range. So it is cheaper in instances I've seen to get BES + MS Exchange with a Blackberry.

    Most companies can handle the annual licensing cost OK. They are concerned about what will affect today's budget and not next years.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ButtUglyJeff
    Checking the other news:

    "Thirty-seven more 'iPod Killers' were released today, and yet for some reason, people keep buying iPods. We here at the news room are shocked......................."
    The mistake you are making is that you think the Treo 650 is the "Ipod" in that scenario, but according to Darnell, the Blackberry is the Ipod.

    The Treo 650 is one of the "Ipod Killers..."

    Thanks for helping make the point, though!
  7. ash1348's Avatar
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    #27  
    "First Official Nail in Coffin of the Treo 650..."
    I guess it was all because of your 'Nail" that the palmOne's stock went up almost 9% today, while NASDAQ dropped 18 points. Maybe Wall street is reading the news upside down, right?
  8. #28  
    Mods: Can we create a special Tidings of Woe forum for this fool and Two-Pack's ghost to go play in? Some of us come here to learn about getting the most out of our awesome little devices, and all the doom and gloom really clutters it up.
    PEG N760C>Treo 600>iPaq4350>Zaurus SL-5600>Zaurus SL-6000L>Treo 650
  9. #29  
    I propose "Bill and Ted's Tidings of Woahhh!"
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Mods: Can we create a special Tidings of Woe forum for this fool and Two-Pack's ghost to go play in? Some of us come here to learn about getting the most out of our awesome little devices, and all the doom and gloom really clutters it up.
    While a funny suggestion it really might serve all parties if the crank-boxes were given their own sandbox to play in .

    Then if someone wants to read positive posts about the unit they would know where to go, and they would also know where to go for criticisms.

    I guess there could still be a 3rd "steel cage match" forum for everyone to mix it up in .

    There is hope though. Given someone upset with the T650 has started their own site, maybe they will add a forum .
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ash1348
    "First Official Nail in Coffin of the Treo 650..."
    I guess it was all because of your 'Nail" that the palmOne's stock went up almost 9% today, while NASDAQ dropped 18 points. Maybe Wall street is reading the news upside down, right?
    RIM falls on competition fears after Symbian deal

    Microsoft Deals, Nokia Wins

    Sorry, I can't resist a bit of a quote:

    "Indeed, it may be that Nokia has found itself possessing the widest range of choices for accessing corporate data from the road. If so, that would be a huge selling point for its next generation of smartphones, a market wherein it is already the leader. So where does that leave rivals Research In Motion and palmOne? Well, at least for now, staring at Nokia's back."
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    ...Why you assume you are the only one here with knowlege of Exchange Activesync is beyond me. But you can think of yourself as knowing more as much as you wish....
    ...I KNOW it is cheaper to just have a Blackberry with BES and Exchange Server, which is what most companies do. It would cost more to have the T650s with Exchange. The Blackberries are just that cheap to buy compared to the T650.
    The rest of your drivel isn't really meaningful enough to comment on, but the above 2, I just can't resist...

    First, if you DO know anything about Exchange Activesync and if you DO professionally support Treo 650s using it, then why have you NEVER posted about it?

    Second, but related, is the fact that you clearly don't understand the economics of the equation. But another kind poster has already addressed that issue very well.

    What is apparent is that you are a diehard Treo user who is a little too emotionally invested to discuss the situation critically.
    Last edited by barky81; 03/22/2005 at 11:15 PM. Reason: code issue
  13. #33  
    Well we know P1's next crack at it will be better than their first. But we don't know that Symbian/Nokia's first crack at it will be a good one.

    By the time others get their first crack out the door P1 will already be on their second.

    The others have not put up anything the was overall better than the Treo yet. I'm not holding my breath that they'll do so soon.

    While this all makes for a nice competitive market I still a good future for the Treo.
  14. #34  
    I'm really enjoying your arrogance. Let's carry on...

    Quote Originally Posted by barky81
    The rest of your drivel isn't really meaningful enough to comment on, but the above 2, I just can't resist...
    Hey if you don't want to address it you don't have to make excuses.

    First, if you DO know anything about Exchange Activesync and if you DO professionally support Treo 650s using it, then why have you NEVER posted about it?
    Go back and read where I mentioned that many corporate buyers are not even looking to sync with Exchange and there are plenty that don't even use Exchange. Then it might become clearer for you.

    Second, but related, is the fact that you clearly don't understand the economics of the equation. But another kind poster has already addressed that issue very well.
    And as I've already pointed out to him and now to you the cost factor is not viewed the same by ever corporate buyer. Some do get the Blackberry at a much better price and having priced it out for their own costs BES was a better deal.

    What is apparent is that you are a diehard Treo user who is a little too emotionally invested to discuss the situation critically.
    What you are is a little to arrogant to ever think I'm actually telling you the truth.

    Well "barky" you represent your name well. Lots of bark .
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    I guess different buyers get different prices for Blackberries, but I know folks getting the devices for less than the $200-$400 range. So it is cheaper in instances I've seen to get BES + MS Exchange with a Blackberry.

    Most companies can handle the annual licensing cost OK. They are concerned about what will affect today's budget and not next years.
    Option 1
    Treo 650
    Microsoft Exchange Server
    Exchange CAL

    Option 2
    Cellphone
    Blackberry
    Microsoft Exchange Server
    Exchange CAL
    Blackberry Enterprise Server
    Blackberry CAL

    Now, on SprintPCS Business, the base differential between the Blackberry 7750 and the Treo 650 is $40--before "your" special pricing, anyway.

    Now, in the real world (you know, out here), the math just doesn't seem to support your claim that it is cheaper.
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Well we know P1's next crack at it will be better than their first. But we don't know that Symbian/Nokia's first crack at it will be a good one.

    By the time others get their first crack out the door P1 will already be on their second.

    The others have not put up anything the was overall better than the Treo yet. I'm not holding my breath that they'll do so soon.

    While this all makes for a nice competitive market I still a good future for the Treo.
    There are several points of differentiation, the most important of which is SCALE. The Symbian OS is currently operating on an entirely different scale than the Treo 650--or the whole product line for that matter. More importantly, it appears at least POSSIBLE that the *next* Treo could run Windows Mobile, so I don't see how that's going to help the Palm OS. Although, it does bode well for a better implementation...

    Of course, that would be the SECOND nail in the coffin, because then the question becomes, "Why pay a premium for a Treo?"

    Can't we just agree to disagree? You clearly don't rely on or have much experience with the Exchange Activesync functionality, and that obviously makes it difficult for you to see the competitive issues involved.

    The facts are that while individual users may love their Treos, their only compelling corporate competitive advantage was their unique Exchange Activesync functionality. That is GONE (and worse, to date has worked miserably). Granted it was only compelling to SOME corporate customers (not you, for example); but then the phone has no value proposition for the others, does it?
  17. #37  
    Bark, I really don't care that you don't believe me. But the differential is a lot different from your "buy 1" pricing example for some cases which I have seen. You're not even considering deals offered by wireless phone companies to large corporate buyers.

    And why would a company buy a Cellphone AND Blackberry when the 7750 has a phone built in? Maybe you don't know much about Blackberries.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by barky81

    Can't we just agree to disagree? You clearly don't rely on or have much experience with the Exchange Activesync functionality, and that obviously makes it difficult for you to see the competitive issues involved.
    Maybe if you realized that someone with knowledge about this has seen deals you've obviously never seen we might agree on something.
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    I'm really enjoying your arrogance. Let's carry on...



    Hey if you don't want to address it you don't have to make excuses.



    Go back and read where I mentioned that many corporate buyers are not even looking to sync with Exchange and there are plenty that don't even use Exchange. Then it might become clearer for you.



    And as I've already pointed out to him and now to you the cost factor is not viewed the same by ever corporate buyer. Some do get the Blackberry at a much better price and having priced it out for their own costs BES was a better deal.



    What you are is a little to arrogant to ever think I'm actually telling you the truth.

    Well "barky" you represent your name well. Lots of bark .
    Apparently, it is the WORDS that have been confusing you. Sorry I took so long to catch on. Here, let's try that little exchange (pardon the pun) again:

















  20. #40  
    Thanks barky for posting the smartest and most informed posts about the future of the treo 650. It is truly awesome that you grace us with your presence.


    Seriously though, get over yourself. All you are doing is guessing. And for the most part no one cares. We dont expect the 650 to be the big thing in a year, just like the 600 isnt now. You act like your staement about the 650 is a revelation. Funny.

    Come back in a year and tell us how smart you are. Until then your just another loudmouth with an opinion, not facts. If you've got facts, post the links. Until then give us a break.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
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