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  1. #21  
    No the lack of Wi-Fi will not lead to the Treo's downfall. This same question was asked about the T600 when it was first released.

    While Wi-Fi is a deal-breaker for some it is not for most...
  2. #22  
    I've been testing out skype on my Dell Axim X5ov and it is very cool indeed. The problem is that the X50v is still crappy as a phone and some of the internatinal rates are crappy. Skype on the Treo would be awesome, but it would only be worthwhile to use VoIP to international calling as most users already probably have nationwide calling in their plans. However sypes international rates are very competitive IMO and you can easily get similar or cheaper rates from other prepaid or internet telephony products...

    Furthermore, there is VoIP apps out ther for the Treo like the Kodiak PTT client and Kalemsoft's Chitchat beta. Thus it is possilbe to have sype-like funtionality on the Troe right now without the need for wifi...
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  3. urban75's Avatar
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       #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ianjd
    So what sort of percentage of the UK population do you think that coverage will amount to?
    Clearly wi-fi will be mainly limited to built up areas, but you may be surprised at the amount of places now offering it: it won't be long before most - if not all - cross country trains have it as standard, there's over 3,000 pubs wi-fi enabled through just own chain and I'm finding more and more hotspots on my travels.

    Sure, it'll never be blanket coverage, but in the UK it's definitely on the up.

    Even in New York, I had no trouble finding wi-fi access in most places.

    Are any of you using Skype on your desktop PCs? It's really amazing technology and already saving me a bomb in phone calls!
  4. #24  
    F1 shot itslef in the foot way before wi-fi.

    The loss of Sony as a device maker was big, but Sony realized it would be years before Palm released a decent OS.

    Voip over unlimited data plans is a pipe dream the carriers will not allow (in the near term / next 5 years).

    Sorry to burst the bubble of all the people creaming themselves over the thought of this.
  5. urban75's Avatar
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       #25  
    Here's an interesting related story: US slaps fine on company blocking VoIP

    In what is thought to be the first case of its kind, the Federal Communications Commission has acted to prevent a North Carolina company from blocking VoIP phone calls over its network.

    A local telco, Madison River Communications Corp., which runs a number of phone companies in rural areas in the south-eastern and mid-western United States, agreed to refrain from blocking VoIP calls and pay a $15,000 dollar fine to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).

    The action is seen as a warning to other telcos not to prevent the growth of VoIP over their networks. Many of these companies see VoIP as a threat to their landline revenues as calls made over the internet can be made to anywhere in the world for the price of a local call.
  6. jaweston's Avatar
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    #26  
    I think that Skype is more attractive to European users since voice calls between countries are so expensive, whereas in the U.S, most heavy voice callers have plans that include virtually unlimited calls within the country.

    In the U.S, Skype is of little value unless you make a lot of international calls.
  7. #27  
    It is safe to assume that most Tre0 650 owners would have voice phone service. Not all will have a data plan that allows them to get email and surfing capabilities.

    Here is what I would like to use WIFI for:
    Accessing my PC for resources
    - File (office docs, PRC, PDB, Other apps to SD card) transfer via WIFile (Not possible using use the
    - PC Control & Access (PalmVNC)
    - Accessing Blazer & VersaMail via my PC & Broadband Internet While at Home
    - Listening to streaming music (Pocket Tunes & http://www.shoutcast.com)
    - Access Remote PCs\Servers (MobileTS)

    All this is possible today via my Bluetooth USB dongle on my PC which I used with my Tungsten T3.

    Treo 600 users most likely have not had this setup prior to going to the 650.

    While the Bluetooth is cool and much faster the the T-Mobile phone\data connection, WIFI would be even faster.

    For the same price, other devices offers both WIFI and Bluetooth. pa1mOne needs to get on the ball and stop playing.

    At least they put the Bluetooth on the 650 and this help a whole lot more.
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  8. urban75's Avatar
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       #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by godschoice
    While the Bluetooth is cool and much faster the the T-Mobile phone\data connection, WIFI would be even faster.

    For the same price, other devices offers both WIFI and Bluetooth. pa1mOne needs to get on the ball and stop playing..
    Indeed.

    Their curious reluctance to provide a wi-fi card (even when shadowmite has proved that it's entirely 'do-able') is very frustrating, and you might have thought that it would have been worth their while partnering up with Skype to help push through a Palm version of the software.

    I can understand that to some Americans with the luxury of unlimited data plans Skype's appeal may be hard to fathom, but in Europe - where we have expensive data tariffs and sky-high international phone calls, Skype is something of a killer app.
  9. #29  
    For sure there is plenty on these boards about P1's mis-queue on Wi-Fi (and memory, and browser), probably due to some marketing/product manager "saving" more good stuff for later.
    Meanwhile, you can run Skype on a PPC (http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-SJphone) which already has all those features native, but that's another story.
    On Palm OS:
    VoIP software=vaporware
    Native Wi-Fi + phone => doesn't exist
    Wi-Fi card + hack => Possible, but you lose the SD slot

    The fact is that we once had 4 major Palm vendors, and now we have only 2. And Samsung only seems to do phones with no qwerty boards in the Palm flavor. (That's not really a smartphone IMHO) Few players is always bad for innovation.

    I don't really need Wi-Fi at the moment, but it would give more options. Options are good. Casual users don't care about Skyping, but us early adopter/enthusiasts like to push the envelope. (but with Palm OS, I'm one enthusiast who is feeling more like a late-adopter!)
    The mobile operators have been ripping us off for years, and still are in Europe, for sure! So, VoIP over Wi-Fi is looking real good, however you can manage it.

    And the operators cannot stop mobile VoIP. Data is data. If you have an unlimited data plan and have mobile Skype or whatever, you have unlimited phone calls.
    Using a Tréo 600. For now.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob010101
    I don't really need Wi-Fi at the moment, but it would give more options. Options are good. Casual users don't care about Skyping, but us early adopter/enthusiasts like to push the envelope. (but with Palm OS, I'm one enthusiast who is feeling more like a late-adopter!)
    The mobile operators have been ripping us off for years, and still are in Europe, for sure! So, VoIP over Wi-Fi is looking real good, however you can manage it.

    And the operators cannot stop mobile VoIP. Data is data. If you have an unlimited data plan and have mobile Skype or whatever, you have unlimited phone calls.
    The operators will be able to stop mobile VoIP if they wish, or charge for it if they wish. All they need to do is to engineer the phones the right way, and they are already working on this. Of course there will be hacks out there to attempt to bypass that, but the fact is that if you are using the device for voice, at some point in the near future it won't matter if it's over a cell tower or a wi-fi tower, if the carriers want to charge you for VoIP calls - they will be able to do it. However, I think that VoIP will be good for consumers because it will add new players into the market, especially in areas that have very good wi-fi coverage. This will force carriers to compete with non-cell based devices and might lead to lower prices. One big thing that will make VoIP wi-fi very attractive is the quality of the calls - on a device optimzied for it, the quality is truly "land line like", which makes the idea of replacing your home land line with a single device very attractive as you don't have to worry about what the cell coverage is like at your house because you have excellent wi-fi coverage. And then if you can use wi-fi at your office as well, it really adds in all kinds of dimensions - which might lead to consumers willing to pay MORE for it since they can get rid of their land line and save $40 to $50 a month there.

    But as far as the original question - will the lack of wi-fi on the Treo650 lead to it's downfall? Not at all - until a carrier releases the first true Cell/WiFi phone that works, it doesn't matter. And even then it's going to take a couple of years or more for it take make a difference, which by then most Treo650s will be sitting in landfills...
    Siemens S46 -> Siemens S56 -> Motorola MPx200 -> Moto v600 -> Audiovox SMT5600 -> Treo 650 -> Motorola Q (14 days) -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700w -> Treo 750
  11. #31  
    Hey seaflipper! What's up?

    Really? You think They can charge you for VoIP calls if there is nothing in your contract about it, you have a data plan that says unlimited data, and you are using one of these PPC's, like the XV6600 which has Skype loaded on it, out of the box?
    And if you connect at a Wi-Fi hotspot thru Boingo or whatever, how would the operator even know you made the call?

    But you are right, that they could certainly figure out you used VoIP if you did data over their network. And right again about people dropping their phone lines in favor of VoIP. Geeks are already.

    And Motorola just launched the first GSM/VoIP phone. It's here!

    The carriers will have no choice but to use VoIP in their networks, and to drastically cut their tariffs. Starting....NOW. Otherwise, they lose customers. Check this out: http://www.voip-news.com/art/6k.html

    I think the 650 will continue to do very well, and one reason is that in the US, calling is cheap enough, except maybe in the office during the day. But then you could just use a softphone on the PC, if cost was an issue.
    But by the time they do a 700, I think many could defect from P1.

    By the way, I'm jealous of your avatar, can't wait to get mine, if I don't stray...
    Using a Tréo 600. For now.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob010101
    Hey seaflipper! What's up?
    Really? You think They can charge you for VoIP calls if there is nothing in your contract about it, you have a data plan that says unlimited data, and you are using one of these PPC's, like the XV6600 which has Skype loaded on it, out of the box?
    And if you connect at a Wi-Fi hotspot thru Boingo or whatever, how would the operator even know you made the call?
    Hi Rob010101,

    Yeah, I bet if you read your contract close enough they probably have some loopholes in there that they could wesel their way into charging you for it. Something proboably about data not supposed to be used for voice or something like that. Who reads all the fine print in their contracts anyway?

    And yeah, you can get a XV6600 with Skype on it, I have Skype on my iPaq hx4700, but you know what? The call quality is mediocre at best on the hx4700, don't know about the xv6600, but I imagine it's only "ok" not full duplex on the wi-fi side at this point.
    Siemens S46 -> Siemens S56 -> Motorola MPx200 -> Moto v600 -> Audiovox SMT5600 -> Treo 650 -> Motorola Q (14 days) -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700w -> Treo 750
  13. urban75's Avatar
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       #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by seaflipper
    The operators will be able to stop mobile VoIP if they wish, or charge for it if they wish.
    This would suggest otherwise:
    FCC Says Telco Must Allow VOIP Traffic
    In response to a complaint by broadband communications company Vonage Holdings Corp., the U.S. Federal Communications Commission announced on Thursday its ruling that "Madison River shall not block ports used for VOIP applications or otherwise prevent customers from using VOIP applications."
  14. #34  
    Maybe they will try to charge for it, but then they will lose customers if there is a better solution. It all depends on what the market is offering, and users are very savvy when it comes to $$.
    But it is looking like they will not get away with blocking it.

    For calling quality, I'll take your word for it, but I think it will improve with software updates. I hope so, because who would want to go from a cool multi-function smartphone/PDA to an optimized wi-fi phone which is not much more than a phone?

    The quality also depends on the network data speed. I think it was the Engadget guys who were saying that Verizon is speeding ahead with rolling out Ev-Do, while Sprint is sleeping...
    And Cingular is rolling out their high-speed 3G network.
    And if they all surcharge too much and the Wi-Fi option is available, users will use that.
    Last edited by Rob010101; 03/11/2005 at 09:46 AM.
    Using a Tréo 600. For now.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by urban75
    Firstly: hello to the forum - I've been lurking for some time and find it most informative. Thanks to the admin team!

    My background: been using Palms since 1999 - Palm V and a collection of Sony Clies up to TH55.

    With Sony pulling out of PDA production, I've been looking at the Treo 650 as it seems to be - by far - the most coherent PDA/phone combo.

    But I fear the lack of built in wi-fi - and in particular the lack of Skype support - may deal the product a fatal blow in the UK.

    Right now, Skype is the hot technology and Ready2Surf have just announced FREE Skype wi-fi access in over 350 locations over the UK - and Treo650 users are going to miss out completely.

    In the States,
    roaming VoIP test are proving that the technology is mature so I think it's a disaster that us Palm users can't get in on the act.

    There doesn't seem to be any real prospect of Skype emerging on the Palm in the near future and with no out-of-the-box wi-fi drivers on the horizon, have Palm just blasted several rounds into their own foot?

    I use Skype at home and love it, and I want to be able to use it on the move too. If the Treo can't provide it, I fear I may have to reluctantly move to the PPC platform - and that's something I really don't want to do!

    (In case no one knows what Skype is, it's a means of making and receiving absolutely free phone calls over the internet to other wi-fi/broadband connected users. The software is totally free www.skype.com)
    The lack of reliability will be it's downfall...
    Treo 700p, 650p 600p, 300p, IIIc, III, Vx, USR Palm Pilot, Newton Message Pad 130, Newton Message Pad 120, (Was there a MP 100?), HP Calculator, Pencil and Paper, Chisel and Rock ....
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