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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by MVT
    To me, the "memory issue" is a non-issue. If you have an SD card and a program that allows you to run apps from the SD card, there is no problem with memory whatsoever.

    PalmOne went halfway to the fix by giving out the free SD cards. If they gave us the $10 application like ZLauncher, that would be the rest of the fix. Either way, they don't need to fix it. Its fixed.
    I had to purchase Powerrun in order to run memory intensive applications from the card. You have to understand that I didn't have to purchase this if Palmone did it right in the first place. If they gave it away I still would not be fully content with it since running applications from the card takes some time for applications to load. Unlike if you had it stored in RAM. For example I am running Snappermail from SD using Powerrun. It takes 10 secs for the application to load and another 10 secs to close. If I had it in RAM it takes about 1-2 seconds tops. Do you think that is acceptable? Let me add more. The way powerrun works and I assume the same for zlauncher, it creates a shortcut in RAM so when you run that shorcut it will take that application from the card and store it in RAM temporarily. So that means I need to have enough space in RAM to load that Application. My snapper mail takes up about 5mb of RAM space when it's running. Another scenario. I use Webpro which is also running from the card. If I'm using snapper and I click on a web link in one of the emails, it does not close Snapper and will launch webpro. Now webpro is about 3mb, add 5mb of Snapper which is a total of 8mb. If I do not have 8mb of RAM it will not run Webpro and will give me an out of memory error. So now I have to make sure I have atleast 9mb of free space on RAM so I dont run into these problems. Otherwise I can only run one of these applications one at a time. I guess if I had 9mb of free space available all the time, and if Snapper and webpros size stays the same, then I might be able to live with this. Because of the memory structure of this device, I have to also worry that each time I add a contact, or just a note in my notepad, etc it will take up more memory than it should eventually eat away from the 9mb I have left. Also the same goes for application that reside in RAM right now. They take up more room than it should. If Palmone did it right in the first place I would know how to manage my applications better.
  2. #22  
    This is the problem P1 has created by being cheap with onboard RAM. All this fussing around moving programs back and forth is non-sense....this is not a PC that is optimized for such computing--the Palm is designed to run most everything from onboard memory.

    I'm close to calling it quits with my Treo 650. It just is not industrial strenegth to handle the intensive email and other activity I do. PPC or BB will be getting my attention to find a suitable alternantive but I will miss the Palm though and I am not seeing a device out there that I am really keen on! Why P1 didn't innovate their OS to multi-tasking and making it bullet proof is beyond me. PalmOS is no more advanced that MS-DOS and it is 2005!
  3. #23  
    Another thing I wanted to add about the 128MB sd card. I have a 1GB now so I really have no use for the 128 card. It's still not a fix for me.
  4. #24  
    Great thread. I sure hope P1 is working on nvfm, as it will be a good beta test (hah!) for its next gen Treo, whatever they decide to call it. Ya would think the kinks would be ironed out by now, at least.

    That said, if the next gen Treo (T700?) only comes with 32MB of memory again (and no wi-fi), I'm jumping to Pocket PC...this coming from a loyal Palm user since 2002.

    ###
  5.    #25  
    Purchase XDA mini because of this low memory thing..the mini is smaller and lower screen resolution but the PPC os is definitely more powerfull. It come with standard backup program, standard voice recorder, standard notepad (diddle) ms mmedia player not to mention word, excel, powerpoint and pdf viewer.(practically do not need 3rd party program)
    I use to tell my friend that palm application always need lower memory than PPC. NOT anymore, with NVFS it is taking as much as PPC program. but at least xda mini come with 64Meg.
    Another thing I notice is PPC is doing XIP (execute in place) meaning program running directly from SD card and not being copied to RAM and back. Why cant Palm do this.

    The XDA mini is not as friendly as treo but mainly because there is no keyboard. Hey I am begining to like the PPC..and WM2005 is just round the corner..
    Will play with it for a couple of days before deciding to stick PPC or back to Palm
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    This is going to be like the update that enabled the Treo 180 to use GPRS. It's going to be a long time coming.
    There is a big difference there - Handspring told everyone they would NOT be able to upgrade the 180, then, to our surprise they overdelivered becasue the 180 actually had a flash rom (that was not listed in the specs) ......

    The days of Undercommit and Overdeliver look lik ethey are gone.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by SofTTware
    Please also add Snappermail to the list above. I have had two mail database corruptions due to the memory issue. Snappermail is doing all they can but the feedack from them is that they need more info from P1 as to what vodoo (my word, not theirs) is going on in the file system that is causing all of these problems. I'm getting sick of reinstalling software and rebuilding my mail fies too!

    P1 is going to destroy their company if they can't get this and the other issues with the 650 sorted out soon. They will have people all over the word struggling with their product and clogging this board and others with their frustrations and comlpaints.
    Amen to that! My Treo's favorite DB to corrupt was Calendar. I've already lost weeks (that I know of) worth of entries and got sick of trying to restore from something - anything - that was not corrupted. This happened quite a number of times. Saved Preferences also went sometimes. I'm not sure that backing up is worth the effort because I don't even know if it works.

    Let's not forget bad word-of-mouth as a contributor to P1's demise. What kind of response do you think anyone asking about my 650 receives?

    Strange how not one of the people I've described the 650 to has purchased one. Why is that I wonder?
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by MVT
    To me, the "memory issue" is a non-issue. If you have an SD card and a program that allows you to run apps from the SD card, there is no problem with memory whatsoever.

    PalmOne went halfway to the fix by giving out the free SD cards. If they gave us the $10 application like ZLauncher, that would be the rest of the fix. Either way, they don't need to fix it. Its fixed.
    Wow, this is so far off the mark I don't even know where to begin. Let me just say: uhhh, wrong.

    I'm doing exactly what you describe, with my own SD card and ZLauncher, but there definitely IS a problem with the memory that this workaround can't address (no pun intended ).
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh
    Except:
    Some programs don't run from the card.
    Most that need to do timer based events (such as scheduled mail download) must run from RAM
    You can't map a hard button to a program on the card
    A program on the card can't be identified as the default app for a type of file or service (web browser, handzipper lite, email program.)
    Not to mention apps with conduits to desktop apps. The only one I know of that will sync with the Palm app and DBs stored on the card is Note Studio. This is a $50 app that I struggled with getting due to the cost, but finally did (before I had a Treo) and have been pleased with it. The fact that it syncs from the card makes it now worth even more than $50 to me.
    Last edited by otterman; 03/05/2005 at 06:12 AM.
  10. #30  
    Here's the "hine sight is 40/40" question of the day: Would 64mb RAM fix this problem? Or would we fill this and still complain about the NVFM? For those of us who had the 180/270/300 we all filled the 16mbs, those who had the 600 may have filled the 32mb and then used a third party app to run programs off the SD card. Now we fill 32mb +... who's to say 64mb would solve this problem?

    Timmay
    Im a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdalim
    where is the promised update for nvfs?.I bought treo because of this promise by palmone but until today they have been very quiet. Anybody have any info on this..maybe expected release date. My treo is badly running out of RAM. (yes I have move all to SDcard)
    You know if funny there's a stimga people have with slam'in Micro$oft when they have problem, but one things for sure they always have timely fixes for major issues and never leave you out in the cold without a proposed release date...

    The opposite seems to be true for P1, they release beta OS, give you no release date, muchless "confirm" their bugs (which BTW u get with M$), people would like fixes but say they don't mind living with the bugs and then commend P1 for a good job done...

    Very strange to me..
    "They say my ghetto instrumental detrimental to kids, as if they can't see the misery in which they live." Krazy -Tupac Shakur

    "Should we cry when the pope die? My request, we should cry if they cried when we buried Malcom X." Blasphemy - Tupac Shakur
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoufSidah09
    You know if funny there's a stimga people have with slam'in Micro$oft when they have problem, but one things for sure they always have timely fixes for major issues and never leave you out in the cold without a proposed release date...

    The opposite seems to be true for P1, they release beta OS, give you no release date, muchless "confirm" their bugs (which BTW u get with M$), people would like fixes but say they don't mind living with the bugs and then commend P1 for a good job done...
    Actually that assessment of MS is not accurate. White Hat hackers tell MS about bugs all the time. Sometimes it takes MS 6 months and a threat of public disclosure before they release a security patch.

    And often with MS release dates you're often left in the cold if you actually expect the product to be released on that proposed date . SQL Server Yukon, now SQL Server 2005 (may be released sometime this year and has been talked about since 2003, or earlier) has been a very long wait. And the same happens with each one of their new OS releases.

    P1 is not offering any false dates. They'll just release it when its ready. And the initial (while not perfect) work around was offered.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigredgpk
    Here's the "hine sight is 40/40" question of the day: Would 64mb RAM fix this problem? Or would we fill this and still complain about the NVFM? For those of us who had the 180/270/300 we all filled the 16mbs, those who had the 600 may have filled the 32mb and then used a third party app to run programs off the SD card. Now we fill 32mb +... who's to say 64mb would solve this problem?

    Timmay
    Jeez, many folks are missing the point.

    IT IS NOT JUST A MEMORY CAPACITY ISSUE THAT THE TREO HAS ALTHOUGH IT WOULD HELP IF THEY WENT TO 64 IF NOT 256MB.

    IT IS A FREAKIN' PALMOS DATA CORRUPTION ISSUE ..... Yes, IT IS A FREAKIN' PALMOS DATA CORRUPTION ISSUE.

    Read my post above, PalmOS needs to get with the 2000's and put a modern, multi-tasking, bullet proof OS in place because you can't use an MS-DOS-like OS for what this device is trying to do. Take a lesson from the developers of the Tivo...who here has ever had or heard of an inkling of trouble with their Tivo and guess what is underneath all of those easy-to-use menus? Freakin' Linux!

    I have had three Snappermail data corruptions in the last month and I have 50% free RAM and a pretty "vanila" device. As I said in my post above, at some point I just have to give up as I can't keep dealing with this nonsense.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by MVT
    To me, the "memory issue" is a non-issue. If you have an SD card and a program that allows you to run apps from the SD card, there is no problem with memory whatsoever.

    PalmOne went halfway to the fix by giving out the free SD cards. If they gave us the $10 application like ZLauncher, that would be the rest of the fix. Either way, they don't need to fix it. Its fixed.
    I have to also disagree. I use SD cards to store bunches of MP3s (for long business trips) and, just like I wouldn't leave the same CD in my CD player, I don't always want the same SD card in my Treo. That's why it is REMOVABLE. If I store apps on an SD card, I have to either duplicate them on all four of my cards to be sure they are in the device, or make sure I keep the app SD card with me and swap it in when I need them. Either way, not a good solution to the memory problem IMO.
  15. #35  
    Fix? Hahahaha.

    I predicted that F1 would not release a real fix for the memory issue within a year...5 months down, 7 to go.

    Their idea of a fix is to put 64MB (again too little) in the Treo 700

    I can't believe the banter about SD card. IT DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM! (block size and heap). It is a dirty band-aid at best.

    Maybe when we are off a 8 year old OS, things might improve.
  16. #36  
    My post was to point out that if there was 64mb of memory, would anyone think that the NVFS was a problem? I understand how the memory is handled, it's the same as any other pc.

    timmay
    Im a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  17. #37  
    From what I read on P1's website, they'll never release a 'fix' for this because it's how they wanted their new file system to run. The old it's a feature not a bug excuse... even if they decrease the static storage size it will never be as much as before. So really more included memory is the only way to fix running out of memory

    As for program corruption, I can't speak to that... I still have my 600
    DLPanther
    "When All Else Fails, Improvise!"
  18. #38  
    When the memory issue arose, F1 said "We will fix it and her is a 128MB SD card".

    They hoped the objections would go away.
  19. #39  
    This will go like past P1 patches. If the patch works for the issue it is released for it will create new issues .

    A treo everyone was totally happy with?...NEVER HAPPEND .
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