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  1. mulcher's Avatar
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       #1  
    I don't get it.

    I have wifi in my house and have been through three brands of routers, antannas that would make John Holmes jeleous and still find range is terrible through walls and doors (this is a 7 year old house with the usual hollow construction).

    Even if coverage was great, if I was going to do any web surfing, emailing or IM'ing I have computers with keyboards 10x the size of the treo, and 21" flat panel screens. Why would you want to use a Treo when you have a PC?

    On the road??? Wifi coverage is like .005% of the physical places you might be. On top of that, only 5% of those hotspots are unlocked and free to use so unless you go to the same place everyday and need high speed web browsing and aren't near a PC, whats the advantage?

    When Wi-Max or 3G services come that lets me drive and surf at 70mph, talk to me, but until then, what is the use for wifi? I usually surf 75% of the same sites each day and they are only updated daily. Avantgo is far faster than Blazer and wifi and I can always resynch when I'm not doing anything. Email is all sync based so speed isn't really an issue and any large attachments chew up too much of my precious memory anyway.

    On top of that, wifi would drain the battery VERY quickly.

    Please don't flame, just give me some real use scenarious that a decent percentage of users would use in order to justify the space, power and cost that having built in wifi would add...
    Mark F Chinsky
  2. #2  
    You bring up good point. However, under the proper configuration, you could potentially configure wifi at your home or office to use Voice over IP to make calls rather than use the cell carriers, especially if you already have the service (like Brighthouse offers its residential customers). You could also do all the typical things you do (check mail, browse the web, etc.) while laying on your couch and not having to to get up.

    The biggest sticking point is that the device CAN do it, but the carriers and palmOne have conspired to delay the introduction of this feature for obvious reasons. And this is just plain wrong. If I have a device that supports wifi and paid $600 for it, why would I quietly accept them crippling it because they fear me making calls over someone else's network?

    Its called economics.
    Cingular Treo 650
    Click here to see what's loaded on my Treo 650
    Do you like my dog? Visit his website!!!
  3. mulcher's Avatar
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       #3  
    Mabye I could see. that. However, VOIP is generally only useful if you have a traditional voip provider so you can call people on POTS lines (98% of the public currently). Thus I have a Vonage account, and a traditional 5ghz cordless.

    I doubt to use VOIP it would work with the existing dialer and directories thus I don't know why it would be much better than a cordless. It would probably be more cumbersome.

    If anything, I think we should scream for a more powerful built in IR transmitter that would make the Treo practical to use as a remote (and for Phillips to come out with full Pronto software, not crippled versions) then you could rightfully replace a $500 clunky universal remote (and one you could actually call in case it gets lost in the couch )
    Mark F Chinsky
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher
    ....If anything, I think we should scream for a more powerful built in IR transmitter that would make the Treo practical to use as a remote (and for Phillips to come out with full Pronto software, not crippled versions) then you could rightfully replace a $500 clunky universal remote (and one you could actually call in case it gets lost in the couch )
    Bravo!!!! Excellent idea!!!

    palmOne, you listening????
    Cingular Treo 650
    Click here to see what's loaded on my Treo 650
    Do you like my dog? Visit his website!!!
  5. #5  
    I use Linksys access points and routers in my home and have superb range and signal strength throughout my home and my yard. I had problems in the past, but installed two additional access points connected via wireless distribution system and now everything is great. Oops, a little off topic. I think WiFi in theory is great, but I have not seen a good implementation yet in a converged device. I tried the SX66 and it was great around the house, but out in the "real world" I was unacceptable. I often find myself sitting in airports, hotel conference rooms, etc where WiFi access is available and it would be great to kill time by going online via WiFi access and [insert what you like to do online here]. I know you can do this already with data connections, but it is slower. And many times there are areas where you can get a WiFi signal but not a cellular signal. Problem I had with the SX66 when I used it was that the WiFi antenna was terrible. I would be sitting in a room and get three out of five bars on my laptop but not be able to connect on the SX66.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher
    Why does everybody want wifi???
    I don't get it.
    1.) Many workplaces (not mine) have wall-to-wall WiFi coverage, where coverage by any given wireless carrier may be spotty or non-existent.

    2.) WiFi is typically much faster than GPRS or 1xRTT.

    3.) Connecting over workplace WiFi often makes the intranet see your device as an "insider" that can be trusted, while connecting via your cell carrier will cause you to be treated as an "outsider" and denied access to "protected" company resources.
    PEG N760C>Treo 600>iPaq4350>Zaurus SL-5600>Zaurus SL-6000L>Treo 650
  7. #7  
    I agree that if the 650 has the capability, then owners should have access to it.

    I also agree that you dont always have the best cellular signal and if email is really important to you (and it is for most mobile professionals) then having wifi access to download your emails when you cant get a cell signal is important.

    IT people would probably like to be able to manage files and systems with wifi on the 650. I use a network all the time for data files and it would be nice to have access to them in meetings and conferences when a laptop is too big or there are no real accessible outlets.

    Overall, IMHO wifi is getting more and more popular and cities are now trying to budget for having an entire wifi network so everyone would be covered (I thought I read that Philadelphia and LA are trying to find the money to do it.) I guess we shall see.
  8. mulcher's Avatar
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       #8  
    If you were in an airport for any length of time, my laptop takes about a minute to boot up and now I have 1200x1024 display and a real keyboard an the ability not to spend 5 minute just entering dycryption codes codes for a paid wifi service. There are limited free unsecured ones.

    If it cost nothing, was completely transparant (like my cdma data) maybe I could see the advantage, but I think wifi will become to wireless what Plasma is going to be to flat screens. Just a short term solution. These wi-max or whatever networks capable of 500k plus bandwidth with cellular coverage areas will make wifi moot, especially for a converged device.

    There are very few places i'm out of Sprint coverage on my Treo. If I am, I can still processes prior synced email and reply so that when I'm in coverage it will go out. If I'm on the corporate lan, than chances are I can sit in front of any workstation and use Web Outlook or Terminal Server and get a far better email experience than a tiny treo.
    Mark F Chinsky
  9. jlczl's Avatar
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    #9  
    Thread starter, do you live in a rural area? That may be why you don't have access to many hotspots. Those in urban areas have very good coverage. Besides work and public hotspots, home is a great place to use it. I love to whip out my SX66 and surf on the spot via my wifi. It is extremely fast and I can be mobile with it. I like to be watching my kids playing outside while I surf. Yes, I could do it with my laptop, but it's more cumbersome. I can't just get up and run around with my kids at a moments notice with the laptop on my lap, I can't just turn on my laptop and check something really quickly like I can on my 66 (by the time it starts up I already have the movie times up on my 66's screen). Basically , it's more convenient. Plus, if it's available, why not? I'm already paying for a high speed data connection + my 66 has it available, so I'm happy. BTW, I use a Netgear Wireless G router and I have great coverage in my house and out. It's two stories and fairly large, yet I still get good coverage. I may get an additional access point for one side of my house where the signal is a bit weak, but other than that it is an absolutely awesome experience!
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    Thread starter, do you live in a rural area? That may be why you don't have access to many hotspots. Those in urban areas have very good coverage. Besides work and public hotspots, home is a great place to use it. I love to whip out my SX66 and surf on the spot via my wifi. It is extremely fast and I can be mobile with it. I like to be watching my kids playing outside while I surf. Yes, I could do it with my laptop, but it's more cumbersome. I can't just get up and run around with my kids at a moments notice with the laptop on my lap, I can't just turn on my laptop and check something really quickly like I can on my 66 (by the time it starts up I already have the movie times up on my 66's screen). Basically , it's more convenient. Plus, if it's available, why not? I'm already paying for a high speed data connection + my 66 has it available, so I'm happy. BTW, I use a Netgear Wireless G router and I have great coverage in my house and out. It's two stories and fairly large, yet I still get good coverage. I may get an additional access point for one side of my house where the signal is a bit weak, but other than that it is an absolutely awesome experience!
    i previously wondered why the T650 did not include Wifi, when its PPC counterparts often include it. but when you really think about it, i side with mulcher. jlczl, if you live in an urban area, you probably have Sprint coverage and can do all of your surfing, etc using Vision. i think the only valid argument put forth thus far are for those working in dense buildings where CDMA coverage may be weak and that have corporate Wifi that they can then log into safely. other than that, i'm content using Vision when i want to be online with the T650. otherwise, like mulcher, i'd rather be looking a larger screen and using a real keyboard if i have the opportunity!

    i actually think p1 made a decent decision here, in that, for MOST people, the extra cost/size/battery drain of built-in (not via SD) Wifi would not have been justifiable. for the rest, there is the SD card, the lack of support for which, i agree, is inexcusable.
  11. mulcher's Avatar
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       #11  
    jlczl, I can see your point. I live in a suburban area in NJ (which some might call a city )

    You are just luckier than me. If I even where my 650 when I'm out with the kdis, my wife gives me c_ap, if I actually whip it out and surf on it versus interact with the kids, I'm a dead man...

    My biggest use of surfing personally is when sitting on lines at stores, I use that time to surf Avantgo and when I'm on the lifecycle in my house. The navigation interface and speed of avantgo is so much faster and content is so well optimized that I very rarely use blazer other than to look at a link somebody may have emailed me and that 99% of the time is done when I'm not near a PC or where there would be open hot spots.
    Mark F Chinsky
  12. mulcher's Avatar
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       #12  
    t
    Mark F Chinsky
  13. #13  
    I am with you, Mark. I am guessing that, for 90% of Treo's intended market, wifi is of little value to them. Just look at Blackberries, they didn't have any wi-fi model till recently, and they have sold a ton of BB units so far.
  14. #14  
    Yeah, I also don't see the need for wifi in it. If it was built in and would automatically switch to the faster wifi connection when it was in range, that would be cool. Truthfully, vision is fast enough for browsing, e-mail, IM, and downloading pictures or small palm programs. I would prefer stronger IR over wifi. Wifi on a card? Forget it... I need the SD card in there.

    Ty
  15. mulcher's Avatar
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       #15  
    Yea, really you have to think of the Treo as not having the SD card. The unit's puny 32 megs of barely usable memory is so limiting that my phone is barely operable without the memory card. I could never afford to leave the memory card out and thus can't use any SD solution that is designed to stay in the slot most of the time
    Mark F Chinsky
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Just look at Blackberries, they didn't have any wi-fi model till recently, and they have sold a ton of BB units so far.
    Well, "they" have sold Treos faster than they could make them, too, but that doesn't mean they're perfect.

    There are features that no one can do without, there are features that are just fluff, but in between are features the absence of which might not doom a device, but that would still be very useful were they included.

    WiFi, for those who have it available, is almost always a step up in speed over Vision or GPRS. I had a Treo 600 when I worked in a hospital with wall-to-wall WiFi, and Vision was cripplingly slow. I ditched it and went with (see sig) an iPaq and a couple of Zaurii--all with WiFi, which kicked ****. Moved on to a hospital with no WiFi, and the SL-6000L became little more than a brick. I'm happy now with my Treo 650, but I'd have probably hunted high and low for a different solution had WiFi usage at work been a consideration.
    PEG N760C>Treo 600>iPaq4350>Zaurus SL-5600>Zaurus SL-6000L>Treo 650
  17. #17  
    When you have WiFi in range, cruising at 1.4 MBPS or more on a handhed device is a pleasant experience, compared to CDMA or GPRS. At hotspots, I'm zipping through web pages with my SX66 as soon as I sit down for a coffee, while watching other users struggle to unpack their laptops and look for power outlets. Opps! that table near the outlet is taken.

    Having WiFi built-in frees your SDIO for other things, like memory and apps. I use the built-in WiFi on my SX66 if it is within range. Otherwise I use GPRS. I set it to automatically go for the stronger signal (WiFi or GPRS).

    I would not knock WiFi as a useless feature. Those of us who have it running on a phone enjoy it a great deal.
  18. rcgabriel's Avatar
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    #18  
    If you just want fast wireless access while sitting on the can at home (uhh... not that I'm saying that's what I use it for or anything), then Bluetooth Reverse DUN accomplishes this today. The Linksys USB Bluetooth widget gives pretty decent range, about comparable to what you'll get with a real crappy wifi access point, but not as good as you'll get with with a higher end wifi access point. Still, can cover a couple rooms in your house without a problem, for about 40 bucks, and it's fast as hell compared to plain old GPRS (which is the only thing I can compare to).

    Obviously this doesn't help if you want to take advantage of your office's existing wifi infrastructure or go to Starbucks.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rcgabriel
    If you just want fast wireless access while sitting on the can at home (uhh... not that I'm saying that's what I use it for or anything), then Bluetooth Reverse DUN accomplishes this today. The Linksys USB Bluetooth widget gives pretty decent range, about comparable to what you'll get with a real crappy wifi access point, but not as good as you'll get with with a higher end wifi access point. Still, can cover a couple rooms in your house without a problem, for about 40 bucks, and it's fast as hell compared to plain old GPRS (which is the only thing I can compare to).

    Obviously this doesn't help if you want to take advantage of your office's existing wifi infrastructure or go to Starbucks.
    I work at a university, and there's Wi-Fi access all around campus, especially in the libraries . If there were a reliable Wi-Fi option for the Treo 650, it'd be really useful for myself--I could leave my (very heavy) laptop behind.

    rcgabriel, I haven't heard about using Bluetooth to access a home WLAN, could you provide instructions as to how to set this up? Also, I have a Cingular Treo, so I'll probably need help enabling DUN as well!
  20. rcgabriel's Avatar
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    #20  
    this thread explains it if you have the patience. Basically, you shouldn't need to do anything drastic even to a locked phone, you just set up an alternative Network profile on your Treo and tell it to use Bluetooth, then set up BT on your home PC,make sure you allow the device to connect for networking purposes, then enable Internet Connection Sharing on your Bluetooth "network device". Then screw around for an hour or two until it works (or at least, that's what I did).
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