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  1.    #1  
    I have successfully connected to my ISP to send/receive emails from my Sprint Treo 650 using the new Versamail 3.0, but there is not any actual synchronization with Outlook occurring. There appears only to be a direct POP connection from the Treo (whether I use the "get mail" feature in Versamail or use the Hotsync button), but nothing is really getting synchronized with Outlook; it's merely sending/receiving my email wirelessly from the Treo device.

    There is apparrently a huge bug in the Versamail/Outlook conduit or I am just doing something horribly wrong. No matter what I try I cannot get the Treo to synch email to Outlook and vice versa. It does allow me use the Treo to send direct POP mail quite easily, but there is not any actual synchronization of email from the Treo to Outlook. Has anyone had this issue? I have read every manual and most of the forums all night long with no solution.

    I have the HotSync settings for the Versamail conduit set to enable synch, synch inbox, and synch outbox. But no matter what I do (even when the Versamail setup program finds my Outlook profile properly) I always get a connection type of "Direct POP Connection". Is there any way to get the conduit setup to give something other than "Direct POP Connection" so that it will synch with my Outlook email?

    Is it not possible to have the Treo send/receive email wirelessly (as it does now quite well) and also synchronize with the email in the Outlook file?

    Thanks for any help.
  2. #2  
    This is not a bug at all, but done by design. Your mail profile in Outlook is an MSINET type profile. These profiles revert to syncrhonizing with directly with the corresponding mail server (POP or IMAP).
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by dang
    This is not a bug at all, but done by design. Your mail profile in Outlook is an MSINET type profile. These profiles revert to syncrhonizing with directly with the corresponding mail server (POP or IMAP).
    Thanks for the reply and info. If this is the case then what is the reasoning for the literature indicating that Versamail is an Outlook "synchronizing" email client? It's not really synching anything at all; the only thing happening is that my Treo is sending/receiving emails wirelessly (directly to my POP/SMTP servers) with complete disregard to what my Outlook client file is doing or has done.
    Last edited by nitrixx; 03/01/2005 at 03:11 PM.
  4. #4  
    Versamail syncronzes with Microsoft Exchange mail server not with Outlook. The conduits will sync contacts and callendar from outlook however.
    Adam West
  5.    #5  
    Hmm, is that true? It clearly states in so many places (even on the palm support website) that Versamail is intended to synchronize with your Outlook file. The conduits for contacts, tasks, memos, and calendar of course work perfectly; however, those have nothing at all to do with Versamail.

    If this is really true then it's funny that they call it "synchronizing". That's very misleading. That would be like calling Outlook 2003 a synchronizing email client because it connects to your ISP's (private or public) exchange server and sends/receives. Haha. No one would think that is the intention of the synch feature they mention. That means we could call anything a synchronizing program that sends and receives to something. Heh. I thought the idea was to have Versamail talk with the Outlook file to make sure that mail is the same in both places. That is the meaning of synchronizing. And apparently this is not at all the functionality or even a possibility? LOL.

    Anyway, I like the Treo 650 (and Versamail) so far. I'm just frustrated that I spent all night trying to figure out how to make my Outlook file "synch" with my Treo's Versamail program. I have to ask one more time. Is this not the intended functionality?

    I have no problem using my Treo to send/receive; I just make it keep mail on the server so that my desktop will be able to download the mail when it needs to. It just seems weird because the idea of synchronizing is to eliminate redundancy in two places, and this actually increases the redundancy: once for sending/receiving wirelessly on the Treo and once again when you send/receive from your Outlook client.
  6. #6  
    Outlook is an email client, so is Versamail. You emails usually arrive at the email server of your company or your ISP, and then they retrieved from there by your email client. Sync is just another word for retrieving emails.....I would read too much into it.
  7. #7  
    From the Versamail User's Guide, page 87:

    When you create a Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync account in the VersaMail application, both your email and calendar info synchronize directly with the Exchange server; they do not synchronize with your desktop software application, such as PalmŪ Desktop software or Microsoft Outlook.
    Other information on your device, such as contacts, tasks, and memos, continues to synchronize with information in your desktop software application.

    If all the clients (outlook and versamail) are synched with the server, then i guess there is redundancy - but everything is in synch which is the key!
  8.    #8  
    Well, what I meant by redundant isn't exactly what you're pointing out. I did read about the Active Synch with Exchange Server and that would work fine because the mail stays on a corporate mail server in one nice convenient place, so it doesn't matter if your Outlook is accessing it or your Versamail.

    I was speaking of just simply trying to synchronize your desktop email client with your pda. There is simply is no way to do it but all of the documentation says you should be able to. I meant redundant because you are sending/receiving with your Treo (to the ISP) and also sending/receiving with your Outlook client (to the ISP); there is no synchronization of any kind actually happening. You are simply grabbing email with your wireless Treo (leaving it on the server) and then also grabbing the mail with your Outlook client. If you delete the mail off the server in either case then you have no way to access to it from the other device (the mail is gone and never "synchs" with anything).

    A synching scenario might look like this:

    1. pda gets some mail wirelessly
    2. desktop gets some mail off the server
    3. you hit the hotsync button and the mail from step 1 and 2 is synched.

    What actually happens is this:

    1. pda gets mail wirelessly
    2. desktop gets some mail off the server
    3. you hit the hotsync button and steps 1 and 2 have nothing to do with each other. If you had messages that came to Outlook in step 2 that the pda had not received in step 1 then your pda just never gets that mail, and vice versa.

    I just don't understand what purpose there is in having an email client on your pda that cannot synchronize with the email client on your desktop. Everything gets totally out of whack. Even snappermail doesn't fix anything. It still cannot synch your mail to your desktop. So you are forced to basically end up receiving mail in two places (the pda and the desktop) and having no way to make it all jive together.

    At least Snappermail openly says on the webpage that their email client is not capable of synchronizing with desktop email clients. The VersaMail product is blatantly lying when it says it can synchronize the mail from your pda to your desktop and vice versa. The only possible way might be with Active Sync or the Business Connection Personal Edition and using a corporate Exchange server in which the mail is always stored in one place.
  9. #9  
    Nitrixx - I have the same thoughts regarding 'synchronisation' that you do. When I first got my Treo 650 I tried to get it to synchronise with the desktop, as the documentation implied, but gave up without getting it working. This leaves me with a few niggling issues.
    1) When I am away from my desktop I would like to have my Inbox (at least) copied to my PDA. This way I can refer to my desktop emails while I only have access to my PDA.
    2) When I retrieve email from my PDA I would like to have that email copied back to the desktop when I next hotsync. Instead, like you, I leave the email on my ISP and download it again on my desktop. I then have to go through my email a 2nd time to delete or move it to another folder.
    3) I keep all my sent emails on my desktop so I can refer to them later. If I reply to an email on my PDA then my desktop does not know about the sent email. So I only reply to trivial email on my PDA (when I don't care about keeping a copy) or I wait until I am back at my desktop to reply.
    I thought that I must be missing something, since the 3 issues above seemed to be a pretty obvious requirement, but I guess it is Versamail which is missing something.
    When I had a Treo 270 I had 2 mail programs on it. The first copied the desktop Inbox to the PDA while the second basically did what VersaMail does. I had hoped that Versamail did both jobs but it appears that it does not.
  10. #10  
    I have done more experimenting and now know what the 'synchronisation' that Versamail does is.

    1) When you do a hotsync your desktop internet connection is used to send any mail in the PDA Outbox. The mail then moves to the PDA Sent folder. This gets your email delivered but unfortunately does not leave a copy on your desktop.

    2) Any mail at your ISP is also downloaded via your desktop to your PDA. It appears in the Inbox in your PDA and in the Inbox of your desktop. Unfortunately this only happens if the email is downloaded from your ISP during a hotsync.

    Both of these functions do 'something' but I think it is less useful than simply synchronising the Outlook Inbox and Outbox with your PDA's Inbox and Outbox.
    I will be turning synchronisation off as the current method is of no use to me.
  11. #11  
    brnz,

    You are right about the sending in item 1). Since the connection is direct POP, and POP servers have no Sent folder then of course it won't move anywhere. A sync with Lotus Notes, Outlook or IMAP will do the move to the right folder on the desktop/server during the sync.

    As for 2) think about it. VersaMail and Outlook are two distinct mail clients accessing the same mail store for your messages. VersaMail doesn't know how to contact the rest of your mail clients that access that account, nor does Outlook. That one is an issue with any mail client.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by dang
    brnz,

    You are right about the sending in item 1). Since the connection is direct POP, and POP servers have no Sent folder then of course it won't move anywhere. A sync with Lotus Notes, Outlook or IMAP will do the move to the right folder on the desktop/server during the sync.
    I must say again, I really think this only works with a corporate Exchange server; this is simply because in that environment all of the data is stored on the exchange server and never leaves until its explicitly deleted or stored to a personal folder file. However, a regular-old desktop Outlook setup does not stay in synch with any kind of POP/SMTP ISP configuration (ie. RoadRuner, AT&T, home dsl/cable connections, etc...) that the Treo is using. It's as if VersaMail is just busted and not at all working as intended. Apparently some people are saying they have actually had their Outlook file download stuff to the Treo and vice versa. I have no idea how though. I have tried everything including various hard resets, reinstalls of palm desktop (with a registry clean), various email settings, creating the email account on the Palm first then synching, creating from the hotsync manager first then synching account to the Palm, and every other possible combination. Nothing works. The VersaMail app is totally ignorant of the fact that Outlook exists on my desktop.

    Quote Originally Posted by dang
    brnz,
    As for 2) think about it. VersaMail and Outlook are two distinct mail clients accessing the same mail store for your messages. VersaMail doesn't know how to contact the rest of your mail clients that access that account, nor does Outlook. That one is an issue with any mail client.
    I think what brnz is trying to get at is the same issue I was talking about. If the VersaMail app is aware of synchronization then it should know something about your desktop Outlook setup (and, no, not a corporate Exchange Server). Most of the documentation for VersaMail (especially the pre 3.0 versions) have extensive literature on setting this link up between VersaMail and various desktop email clients (in a non-corporate Exchange environment) such as Outlook or Outlook Express. VersaMail 3.0 has nothing like the previous versions. You see, VersaMail, according to all the literature, is in fact supposed to be aware of Microsoft Outlook (among others) on your desktop. This just doesn't happen though; or maybe it's just incredibly buggy and only works in very particular cirumstances.

    As for now, just as brnz mentioned, the "Enable HotSync Synchronization" in the VersaMail conduit manager is totally useless. There is no point in using it at all. In fact, it does more harm than good if you are not working with a corporate Exchange server. Why on earth would we "synchronize" a POP/SMTP mailbox? What is it synchronizing? LOL.

    Synchronization is a method to have multiple devices contain the same set of data. When we normally use an email client we don't care anything about synchronizing. When you send/receive from your desktop you are not "synchronizing" with your POP server; you are just sending stuff to it and getting stuff from it. What we really need for this to be useful is for email client 1 (desktop) and email client 2 (pda) to talk with each other. That is synchronizing. Whether the pda or the desktop send/receive the email doesn't matter. The important thing is that in order to synchronize, one email client (Outlook) has to be able to talk to the other email client (VersaMail). Sending and receiving of mail to a server have nothing to do with synchronizing.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by dang
    brnz,

    You are right about the sending in item 1). Since the connection is direct POP, and POP servers have no Sent folder then of course it won't move anywhere. A sync with Lotus Notes, Outlook or IMAP will do the move to the right folder on the desktop/server during the sync.

    As for 2) think about it. VersaMail and Outlook are two distinct mail clients accessing the same mail store for your messages. VersaMail doesn't know how to contact the rest of your mail clients that access that account, nor does Outlook. That one is an issue with any mail client.
    Hi. I believe I understand exactly what Versamail is doing and why it is doing it. I was explaining what it does in 1) and 2) rather than why it does it that way. I just think it is useless functionality unless you use Versamail on the PDA as your only email client, even though you have a desktop with an internet connection and Outlook installed. In my case I do use Outlook on the desktop.

    I could make Versamail delete the POP3 server copy when it downloads email (whether via hotsync or wirelessly), then I would have only one copy of my email. But I would never know whether it is on my PDA or my desktop. And there is no way to put them both together again.

    I would have expected Versamail to work like this during a Hotsync:
    1) move email from the PDA Outbox to the desktop Outbox
    2) copy from the PDA Sent to the desktop Sent
    3) copy (only email downloaded since the last hotsync) from the PDA Inbox to the desktop Inbox
    4) copy from the desktop Inbox (all email) to the PDA Inbox
    These 4 options could be independantly enabled by the user.

    I could then ask Versamail to delete the POP3 server email when it downloads. Then all my email would always be on my desktop even though I used my PDA to receive/send it. I would also have all of my Inbox on my PDA. I would also get any unsent email on my PDA sent from my desktop when I hotsync. Seems like the sensible solution to me. Oh, it would also be nice to have other folders as well, drafts/deleted..., then I would not need to do anything on my desktop for email processed on my PDA.

    In summary, Versamail 'syncs' with your ISP and not with Outlook. As has been said by Nitrixx, the Versamail 'synchronisation' has nothing to do with Outlook at all. It is simply an email client which will make use of your desktop internet connection during a hotsync to send/receive email. If they made this clear in the documentation, instead of the misleading way they make you think that you can synchronise with Outlook, then I wouldn't have wasted so much time on this.
    Last edited by brnz; 03/03/2005 at 04:53 AM.
  14.    #14  
    My big question at this point: do there exist any Treo 650 email clients that are capable of synchronizing with various desktop email clients such as MS Outlook?

    I have seen "push/pull" services (like Business Connection Personal Edition) and this would work okay I suppose. Does there not exist some simple program that can talk with Outlook (and other clients) to allow you to synch the information between the PDA and desktop? For example, what if you simply want the last week or so of emails from your Outlook .pst file to be on your PDA while your out of town so you can work with them (wirelessly); later when you get back you would like to be able to synch in order to get any of that data you worked with (such as replying wirelessly while out of town) back into your Outlook .pst file.

    As it is, the only good use of something like Versamail (or Snapper for that matter) is if it's your only email client. Otherwise there is so much redundancy going on between your multiple email clients it's ridiculous. Do the Yahoo Premium services and such still use a web interface? Maybe that would help things if all the mail is still stored on the server. The trouble so far is that POP email in general is not stored in one place (you download it to your PST file or other email client and then it's gone - unlike a corporate Exchange server). Therefore, an application (like Versamail) that tries to to "synch" with a plain old POP3 email server is spinning it's wheels. The data is existing in multiple places that do not natively communicate. I'm not sure if what I'm saying is clear to everyone.

    Haha. The Sprint people don't understand what I'm saying either. I was talking to a "level 2 data support" guy today at Sprint PCS and he was sooooo freaking frustrated... LOL.

    Would you want to add 25 contacts to your Palm Desktop or Outlook, perform a Hotsync, and then not have them present on the PDA device? This is basically what happens with the current VersaMail/Snapper/Chatter mail system. That's the best I can explain the dilemma folks.
  15. #15  
    I have found a partial solution to a couple of my problems. I purchased 'InBox To Go' as an upgrade for about $30 which gives me my Inbox on my PDA. I could have spent more on Intellisync but I don't need the extra functionality. When replying to an email, synced from my PC, I copy it to Versamail and send the reply from there. I have Versamail set to always BCC myself and to not download emails to the PDA which were sent by myself. I have Outlook configured to automatically move email from my Inbox to the Sent folder if the email is from myself. I now have my Inbox on my PDA and my Sent email in Outlook. I also enabled Versamail OutBox synchronisation via my PC since this also works using the above system.
    Last edited by brnz; 03/14/2005 at 01:51 AM.
  16. #16  
    I have switch my Tungsten T5 for Treo 650 and i can say Versamail deliver with Tungsten T5 CAN synchronize your outlook mails's desktop !!!

    I don't know why Versamail for Treo 650 cant' do that !!!!

    I'm searching how do that with Treo 650 without success, for me it's a bug in this version. All the others versamail version for all Tungsten can do that !!!
  17. #17  
    I thought this actually did work, and I had it working for awhile. If you setup the Versamail account on your computer, one option is to select one of your existing email accounts. Then, during sync it would make sure that the two "mail files" we're the same. I thought there was an option somewhere in the Versamail account setup to do this, but I'm not doing it now due to some issues with ActiveExchange (so I've set my Versamail conduit to do nothing) so I can't confirm anymore that it does everything you're looking for.

    I'll try to get it working again and post more.
  18. #18  
    Yuck, this is definately a problem
    . I've been doing all my mailing from my Treo lately so I hadn't even noticed that they weren't appearing in Outlook.

    So here's a question, where is the e-mail from your Treo backed up to if not in Outlook? It must be recovered from somewhere after say a hard reset, true?


    Ivory...
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivory
    Yuck, this is definately a problem
    . I've been doing all my mailing from my Treo lately so I hadn't even noticed that they weren't appearing in Outlook.

    So here's a question, where is the e-mail from your Treo backed up to if not in Outlook? It must be recovered from somewhere after say a hard reset, true?


    Ivory...
    Definately a bug. If you set up Outlook Express which is also a mail client it works exactly as you want it to. It will sycnronise with the desktop inbox at hotsync. It actually gives you the option during the account setup to syncronise with Outlook Express or direct pop. There is a pull down menu item in the "advanced" section. This pull down no longer exists when you try to setup an Outlook account - even on the same machine. Really weird.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by adamwest
    Versamail syncronzes with Microsoft Exchange mail server not with Outlook. The conduits will sync contacts and callendar from outlook however.
    Well, not really. It won't upload calendar changes you make on the Treo with your Exchange Outllok Calendar. That's why I went back to Snappermail and manually synching calendar along with the other conduits.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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