View Poll Results: What is your view of Shadowmite and his work on the TREO 650?

Voters
369. You may not vote on this poll
  • Excellent work; I would have returned my TREO 650 if not for Shadowmite's help

    68 18.43%
  • Excellent work; I would have kept my TREO 650 without his help, but it works better with it

    166 44.99%
  • Excellent work, but does not affect me/have not used it

    121 32.79%
  • Shadowmite's work was a waste of time as far as I am concerned.

    14 3.79%
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 70 of 70
  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by ZBoater
    Ok, I'll take that. It is not my intent or desire to be a law enforcement officer, or "champion". However, my personal character flaws, which believe me are much, much worse that just using NotePad from my Tungsten have no bearing on the validity of copyright law.

    Don't shoot the messenger.
    I don't think this has anything to do with your character flaws. It has to do with the pot calling the kettle black. You're championing copyright law, stating it's wrong of SM to reverse engineer the code and wrong of anyone else to use it while, at the same time, using Palm intellectual property on your Treo in violation of the same copyright law.

    Can't have it both ways. If it's wrong, you should delete that program from your Treo. If you think it's ok for you to use it, whatever the justification, don't criticise others for doing basically the same thing.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars
    What a sorry group you are.
    Then take your bone stock Treo, call up whoever you consider worthy of your exalted companionship, and (if they can hear/understand you) run off and play with them.

    I doubt anyone here really disputes that we (including Shadowmite) are violating the letter of copyright law. What I think has been sufficiently demonstrated, though, is that the spirit of intellectual property law has been respected: no one is using software they didn't pay for, no one has obtained for free something they would have otherwise bought, and no one has lost sales they otherwise would have made.

    If anything, P1's revenue has been increased by the availability of "grey market" patches that fix several of the things they screwed up on this device. If you want to huff and puff about section and subparagraph of copyright law, call someone who cares.

    And while I'll pass on slurring your character, since I don't know you and don't want to, but I will ask WTF is up with your creepy username.
    PEG N760C>Treo 600>iPaq4350>Zaurus SL-5600>Zaurus SL-6000L>Treo 650
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars
    What a sorry group you are.
    Then please find another board to troll so you can tell other people that they need to RTFM since that seems to be your solution to all problems (even when it is not in the manual ).

    Life is too short to hang out with a sorry group of people so maybe you need to find the door and dont let it hit you on your way out.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars
    Steal if you want, you're in charge of your destiny, and no one can stop you. All I ask is that you stop making up ridiculous justification for your theft, and just admit it.I now await the inevitable slurs on my character.

    Tom

    Hmm, I've been trying to think of what I stole. My Treo has a Palm OS ROM on it, which I paid for. It has the roaming patch, which Palm gave me for free. It has versamail, which I paid for even though I don't use. There's nothing on my Treo that that I haven't paid for, excepting trial copies of a couple of pieces of software.

    Now then, it's true there a few lines of code in the ROM that are different than what they were when I purchased the phone, but no one's livelihood was hurt by that, I haven't used something for free that I should have purchased. I've not given copies of my licensed software to anyone without the same license (and neither has shadowmite). I don't see any theft, and I don't see any losses incurred based on the copyright infringment.

    Is that relevent? Sure is. In order for damagaes to be assesed due to copyright infringement, there has to be a loss. If SM was providing Palm OS ROMs to load on non-Palm devices, that would definitely be actionable. But giving me a copy of a program I already own is not.

    License violation, btw, is completely different than copyright. License violation is a contract issue, tried in civil court (if it ever gets that far). Copyright violation is a Federal criminal offense. In Tort law, Palm's remedy would effectively be limited to revoking shadowmite's license to use the code, and reimbursement for lost sales due to the violation. Again, Palm has lost no sales. Only those who already own licenses for the software can make use of what Shadomite has done.

    Hardly the crime of the century. I have no problem sleeping at night just because I added the voice quality patch to my phone.

    Oh, and since you're such a stickler for the law, I assume you never exceed the speed limit? Never jaywalk? Never valued a charitable deduction at a little bit more than it was really worth? Never downloaded an MP3 off the internet without paying for it? Or copied a piece of software, or taken a few extra packets of sugar from a restaurant? If all the above is true, and you pay strick allegience to every law of which you're aware, then kudo's to you. You're a better man than I. Otherwise, the word sanctimoneous comes to mind. And maybe hypocrite.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  5. #65  
    Heh, and there it goes.

    Troll? No.

    I write manuals for a living, of course I'm going to suggest that first. Alas, no one ever does, even when it is the most effective way to get answers.

    Yes, mine is stock, because it works. If it didn't, I'd return it and get something else.

    As for my "creepy" username, it's a shortening of the Blue Oyster Cult song title, "A Veteran of the Psychic Wars".

    Did you ever notice people will say online things that they would never dare say in person?

    I just find it hilarious the lengths people go to when they want to justify what they're doing when it's not quite right.

    But, yell and scream all you want, I'm not going anywhere. I have more people to tell to read their manual!

    Tom
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars
    I write manuals for a living, of course I'm going to suggest that first.
    Hmmm, anybody watch the Cable show Monk, his brother did the same thing and his brother was insane, coincidence......

    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars
    Did you ever notice people will say online things that they would never dare say in person?
    I live in Southern Cali, if you want to meet, let me know. Either way, I am done with this thread, I know I have better things to do.

    PS. Keep up the good work SM and ignore the deadbeats.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    ...Now then, it's true there a few lines of code in the ROM that are different than what they were when I purchased the phone, but no one's livelihood was hurt by that, I haven't used something for free that I should have purchased. I've not given copies of my licensed software to anyone without the same license (and neither has shadowmite). I don't see any theft, and I don't see any losses incurred based on the copyright infringment....
    I am not a lawyer, but I have a fairly basic understanding of copyright law, and I dont think financial losses are a requirement in establishing that copyright infringement has ocurred.

    What puzzles me is why a fair, basic understanding of copyright law is met with such hostility by those who commit it every day (and I am not singling you out meyerweb - anyone reading the whole thread can see for themselves). Again, I am not a saint, and I am not a law enforcement officer, so I would ask that no one waste their time questioning my motives. The fact still remains that even downloading an illegal file is copyright infringement commited by the downloader. You can LEARN more about this here

    http://www.copyright.gov/

    and here

    http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/tips/ST05-004.html

    Ignorance of the law doesnt excuse our behavior when breaking it. Knowledge is a good thing, and respect for other individuals property, physical or intellectual, is also a good thing.

    Peace!
    Cingular Treo 650
    Click here to see what's loaded on my Treo 650
    Do you like my dog? Visit his website!!!
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars
    I just find it hilarious the lengths people go to when they want to justify what they're doing when it's not quite right.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZBoater
    Ignorance of the law doesnt excuse our behavior when breaking it. Knowledge is a good thing, and respect for other individuals property, physical or intellectual, is also a good thing.
    OK, guys: why don't you call PalmOne and break this big story to them? I'll bet it's not news to them, and they have no interest in doing anything about it. Just because they can doesn't mean they will. The grey market ROMs and patches improve the fuctionality (and therefore marketability) of their device, while imposing no support or liability burden on them. They still get your 600-700 USD, and if/when you brick your device, all they will have to say is "we told you not to..."

    But don't worry: even if P1 tells you to go p!ss up a rope, I'd encourage each of you to go freelance with your passion for the finer points of copyright law. Get some blue tights, a red cape, embroider a "C" on your chest, and leap out the window to fly over the city looking for ROM-rustlers. I'd especially encourage this if one of you happens to live on a double-digit floor of a high-rise...
    PEG N760C>Treo 600>iPaq4350>Zaurus SL-5600>Zaurus SL-6000L>Treo 650
  9. #69  
    Ethereal, no one is advocating going to palmOne and saying anything - that point you brought up completely out of context. Second, "grey market" ROMs are supposed to improve functionality - and most do, but some dont - some introduce new instability, and give newbies the opportunity to fry their Treos. When you say they impose NO support or liability burden on them, I wonder what they do with all those Cingular Treos some people tried to put Sprint ROMs on...

    And whether you think this is a hopeless crusade or not, respecting people's property is a basic principle in a civilized society. I'd encourage YOU to waste less time on the messengers, and spend MORE time on the message.

    I'm going to put on my red cape now....
    Cingular Treo 650
    Click here to see what's loaded on my Treo 650
    Do you like my dog? Visit his website!!!
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by ZBoater
    respecting people's property is a basic principle in a civilized society.
    Yes, indeed: I wish P1 had had more respect for the 600 USD I had in my possession before I exchanged them for an ambitious device with a beta-test level of finish. However, I applaud them for at least respecting my possession of the device enough to mind their own business while I do as I wish with it.

    Don't forget the blue tights.
    PEG N760C>Treo 600>iPaq4350>Zaurus SL-5600>Zaurus SL-6000L>Treo 650
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Posting Permissions