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  1. #41  
    There could likely not be a successful class action lawsuit for the Treo 650 as the phone does work, it just doesn't work well (for some). PalmOne promised calls, bluetooth and data transmission and it does work, thus no overall defect, just a product that does not work well for some. Others report it works fine for them. If you hated all the other Treo products, why would you spend even more for this one????

    As far as slamming class actions - the conservatives who are in the pay of big business and have comandeered the Legislature have done a complete disservice to everyone in the method by which they are limiting class actions. The bill goes too far. For example, take cases where workers have been denied proper overtime pay and would be owed $2000 - $5000 under STATE law or consumers who have been ripped for $1000 - $3000 under a STATE consumer law. No lawyer can afford to help someone with an individual case at these levels because they cannot make any money (and they only make money if they win and recover - and then have to pay office expenses, employees, insurance, etc.) If you put together 100 persons who have been ripped off in this fashion, then the case can be litigated. Even then, the lawyer who fails to win gets nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

    Now, being forced into Federal Courts, no one is going to take these cases, employees and consumers are going to be ripped off even more because no one will stop business from taking advantage of people and even if cases are filed it will take much longer for them to reach a resolution.

    I'm all for halting frivolous lawsuits that result only in "coupons" or $1 checks to class members, but this bill will stop lawsuits that properly check corporate misfeasance and greed. Simply put, it is bad law.
  2. #42  
    Pretty presumptuous, springrider, to make such sweeping statements indicting businesses of being out to wrong consumers as a general rule. And blaming "conservatives"? Lots of Democrats put that bill thru the Senate, too. As far as I can tell, the only faction that doesn't think it's good, long-overedue legislation is the trial lawyers (oh, and the ACLU...). Just what we need--more protection against "evil big business". Remember, this is capitalism. Market forces will weed out businesses that don't "make the grade", and word travels faster than ever via the 'net. Consumers are better-armed than ever to make their own responsible decisions (e.g. what you can learn on TC prior to ordering a Treo 650). The key issue here is looking out for yourself and taking responsibility for your own actions, rather than running off to some lawyer. And I don't buy the BS above about how much it costs to run a law practice--I know many lawyers and they all do pretty darn well. I also don't buy the bit about lawyers not making any money unless they win the case. That's common with ambulance-chasers, but that's not the way it works in business law.

    End of rant #3,
    Todd/Indy

    Todd/Indy
  3. #43  
    The Microsoft comment by Ash was dead on. A lawsuit against Microsoft has 100 times the merit of a lawsuit against PalmOne.
  4. #44  
    Stay away from those DAMN lawyers........
    Too many OB/GYN cannot practice there love anymore .......
  5. #45  
    Tbhausen, correct.

    Bmac, correct (and Ash)

    Springrider, you should educate yourself before speaking out. You do not appear to have a sound argument, but do have a healthy dose of red-diaper-dopper-baby syndrome, which castigates the US while sipping their free-trade double lattes at the local Starbucks.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by madcap
    .....<snip>...now the real issue you really want it and you want more....don't all of us!

    now for the flaming!!!

    WHO IS WITH ME?
    That's what I mean! PalmOne knows it! They know we all REALLY WANT the thing, and we will go through all sorts of glitches and resets and ROM fixes and other garbage to get it and keep it and never let it go. They don't see any point to fixing anything that ain't so broke we don't keep buying the darn thing! Might as well start a class-action suit against the folks that won't send back their TREO's!!
  7. #47  
    amen brother GWB!
  8. #48  
    more than anything else, i'm getting friggin' annoyed by the incurrect spelling on this thread!
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by rogerkang
    more than anything else, i'm getting friggin' annoyed by the incurrect spelling on this thread!

    uhhhh???? You should put a smiley or something to tell us you are being sarcastic.
    ELR
    >> Drop by! <<

    Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
  10. #50  
    oops, sorry. I furgot the smiley. I'll add it now.
  11. #51  
    Sue 'em all the way to China
  12. #52  
    It's this keyboard on my 650, & my fat fingers, maybe I'll sue now......
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

    My beer blogs:

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    Rev. Rhino on Twitter
  13. #53  
    Umm...yeah. And I tried to call my lawyer and he couldn't understand what I was saying because the 650 blows chunks as a phone. One step up from a cup and string....

    Seriously though....while some lucky people have no problems with the device whatsoever, it seems to be that quite a large amount of people are having serious issues with it.....sound quality, roaming issues, lots and lots of bugs, memory issues, dialing issues, hardware/keyboard quality issues, hotsync issues, random reset issues. Real issues, not user error, not ID10T problems.

    There's no denying it. They took the phone out of the oven before it was fully cooked because, like it or not, they had to have something to serve at Christmas dinner.

    I think that what all the "you suck because you want to sue" people need to realize is that we "unhappy" or "unlucky" ones just want resolution of our issues. We don't want to suck PalmOne dry, we don't want to line the pockets of the attorneys. But there is no real good way for us to communicate our issues to P1 to achieve resolution. There is no "bug report" area for PalmOne where the users can report an issue and follow it through to resolution. Everyone has to start at square one -- call Sprint, talk to a $6/hr bonehead who says "we have no knowledge of problem xxx" .... "have you tried a hard reset?" "Maybe you should exchange your phone?" Right....like an identical piece of hardware with identical software is going to act differently. Maybe it won't dial slowly, or maybe it won't sound like crap.....ha.

    We just want resolution...or at minimum, some sort of semi-often communication from Palm acknowledging they know about the issues and are fixing them. We are in the dark and it sucks.

    If a class action suit were to be started, maybe it would kick PalmOne into gear and maybe we'd see a timely release of patches.
  14. #54  
    pa1mOne is here, pa1mOne is watching--you can be very certain of that. Issues with their products are best addressed and ultimately resolved through reasoned discourse, not lawsuits or threats of lawsuits. We may not like some of the compromises their product development logic leads to, but insisting they don't care--or don't want to make a quality product that makes us happy--is as patently absurd on its face as insisting the timber industry uncaringly razes forests when they renew at a rate far greater than they harvest. No one wants to put himself/herself out of business.

    Todd/Indy
  15. #55  
    Isn't there a requirement that a large number of people are harmed in order for a class action lawsuit to be successful? Now, if scientists prove that the Treo 650 causes brain cancer, people are harmed, and PalmOne fails to inform the public and pay medical expenses, etc., then there would be valid reasons to file a class action lawsuit. But just because certain people have trouble operating a phone does not seem like just cause for a lawsuit.

    Don't you think market forces will ultimately move PalmOne to fix the issues some people are having? They are aware of the problems, and they know that competitors will someday catch up to the Treo. Their desire for loyal users, carriers, and large business customers to continue buying their products is the biggest incentive they have to fix the problems.

    No offense, but filing a class action lawsuit should be a method of last resort, and the Treo has only been out for a few months. On top of that, Sprint and Cingular both offer trial periods so that you can make sure the phone and service meet your needs. If it's not meeting your needs, why didn't you return it when you could???

    Most of us that bought the Treo 650 so far are early adopters who are willing to risk facing bugs, etc. Any complex consumer device is prone to have bugs when first released...this also happens with computers and cars. If you can't handle those risks or aren't willing to take some problems into your own hands (like installing the shadowmite patch), then maybe you should get or keep your Treo 600 and wait another 6 months by when the problems should be resolved.
  16. #56  
    Whether you believe it or not, all class action cases are run on a contingency basis on the Plaintiff side. The Plaintiffs' lawyer ONLY makes money if they prevail. The defense lawyers (defending the corporations) charge and make money by the hour. That is why corporations ***** about the cost.

    Anyone who thinks "market forces" will force a coporation to "do the right thing" is a kidding themselves. It is only when profit and "right thing" align that this choice will be made, or if the laws (or a resulting lawsuit) require it.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal who thinks that all corporations are evil. And I do believe that market forces correct profit points. I also agree that there are WAY TOO MANY FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS. But I think that it will be shown that the Class Action "Fairness" bill is far overreaching.

    In fact, time will likely show that one of the biggest opponents of this bill will be Justice Scalia as the bill violates all tenents of federalism.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by tbhausen
    Pretty presumptuous, springrider, to make such sweeping statements indicting businesses of being out to wrong consumers as a general rule. And blaming "conservatives"? Lots of Democrats put that bill thru the Senate, too. As far as I can tell, the only faction that doesn't think it's good, long-overedue legislation is the trial lawyers (oh, and the ACLU...). Just what we need--more protection against "evil big business". Remember, this is capitalism. Market forces will weed out businesses that don't "make the grade", and word travels faster than ever via the 'net. Consumers are better-armed than ever to make their own responsible decisions (e.g. what you can learn on TC prior to ordering a Treo 650). The key issue here is looking out for yourself and taking responsibility for your own actions, rather than running off to some lawyer. And I don't buy the BS above about how much it costs to run a law practice--I know many lawyers and they all do pretty darn well. I also don't buy the bit about lawyers not making any money unless they win the case. That's common with ambulance-chasers, but that's not the way it works in business law.

    End of rant #3,
    Todd/Indy

    Todd/Indy

    Second that.
  18. #58  
    You do n't know how much we physicians hate those people.........
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by spingrinder
    Anyone who thinks "market forces" will force a coporation to "do the right thing" is a kidding themselves. It is only when profit and "right thing" align that this choice will be made, or if the laws (or a resulting lawsuit) require it.
    I agree, market forces won't necessarily force a company to "do the right thing." But it will determine if PalmOne is profitable or not.

    Unless some of the issues with the Treo are resolved, customers (particularly large business customers) will complain and refuse to buy large quantities of Treo 650's. PalmOne is reaching that stage shortly with the 650.

    The market force is the consumer, both individual and commercial, who will decide if the Treo 650 is worth buying or not. PalmOne will fix at least enough of the issues that they will sell Treos. They won't fix every possible bug b/c it would cost too much, but like Microsoft or any other company they'll make it good enough (and hopefully a little better than that).
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    That's what I mean! PalmOne knows it! They know we all REALLY WANT the thing, and we will go through all sorts of glitches and resets and ROM fixes and other garbage to get it and keep it and never let it go. They don't see any point to fixing anything that ain't so broke we don't keep buying the darn thing! Might as well start a class-action suit against the folks that won't send back their TREO's!!
    GWB...you pick George Bush as your avatar but you choose the side of the consumer. I'm proud of you for thinking for yourself.
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