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  1.    #1  
    Through my company's discount arrangement I have been told that i can purchase a Treo 650 for $399 if i sign up for the $44.99 unlimited data plan and a 1 year contract. Without commiting to this data plan the t650 price would be $449. My thought was to get this plan, get the phone at discount and then go to my online account and change it to something else.

    Is this an easy thing to do with Cingular Blue? I know that they have unlimited mMode for 19.99. I also know that Cingular Orange users have been using similar tactics to obtain the 19.99 Mediaworks plan on their 650. I would order with Cingular orange, but they are not honoring the full discount arrangements that my company had with AT&T and the costs of activation, lesser monthly discount, 2 year contract and higher price for the phone would make the 650 cost me quite a bit more through orange. I am not currently a Cingular or AT&T user, so any insight from current customers would really help me make a decision.
  2. #2  
    Could you change to a lower priced plan after you sign a 1 year contract? I would just pay the $449 and get the $19 media works plan. You'll save more in the long run and it'll only be a $30 hit if you could have been successful with the switch (assuming you'd at least have to pay the first month at the 44.99 price).
  3. #3  
    I've never heard of a data plan committment with any carrier. Data plans are add-on plans that augment your voice plan. It is the voice plan that requires a committment of 1~2 years, not the data plan. During that period you can cancel the data plan any time.
  4. #4  
    Cingular Blue's unlimited mMode plan for phones is $24.99, not $19.99. And I believe that the unlimited PDA plan gets discounted to $39.99 if you also have a voice plan. I haven't been able to determine what the difference is between the two "unlimited" plans. If anyone here knows, please comment. Not just what Cingular says the difference is - I know that part - but what the real difference is in the way they are measured and billed.
  5.    #5  
    Thanks. I think I will go ahead and pay the $449 with no data plan and try to add unlimited mMode for $24.99 later.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by L.A.User
    Thanks. I think I will go ahead and pay the $449 with no data plan and try to add unlimited mMode for $24.99 later.

    Watch out for overage data charges with the U mMode plan. Don't use anything other than web and email.
  7. #7  
    The only difference is $15.00 (and that they won't give it to you if you ask).
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilliland
    Cingular Blue's unlimited mMode plan for phones is $24.99, not $19.99. And I believe that the unlimited PDA plan gets discounted to $39.99 if you also have a voice plan. I haven't been able to determine what the difference is between the two "unlimited" plans. If anyone here knows, please comment. Not just what Cingular says the difference is - I know that part - but what the real difference is in the way they are measured and billed.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    The only difference is $15.00
    On what do you base that? Have you seen the same "additional data" charges on both plans? Are you going by direct experience or on what someone has told you? I don't intend these questions as a "challenge", but I'm really trying to get some hard data here, not hearsay.

    If you've gotten "additional data" charges on the unlimited PDA plan, I'd like to better understand the specific circumstances that triggered them. Was it due to a tethered device? What protocols were in use?

    BTW, to LAUser, the data overage charges on the $24.99 plan aren't that bad. They're only $1 per megabyte, which is less than on most of AT&T's other data plans. I signed up for the $24.99 plan for that exact reason. I knew that I'd be triggering the surcharge, and I wanted to make it as low as possible.
  9. #9  
    I have only experienced mMode myself. The PDA plan info was told to me by someone who I would expect to know what they are talking about. Neither plan (technically) allows tethering. Both plans PROBABLY won't bother you if you stick with HTTP, POP3 and IMAP while tethered but if you read the terms of both, both are excluded from tethering and any client server type use. The difference is, as I'm sure you know, mMode is sold to be from a standard "phone" device (which users will generally use less data) so the plan is cheaper, and the other is meant to be used from a PDA (data centric device) which by definition the person using it will probably use more data. So they charge more based on what is "expected" to happen. There is NO ONE that wil be able to tell you what you will be "caught" on because only ATT really knows. I know I have been charged for VNC as well as using a VPN connection tethered through my laptop from both a plain handset and a PDA handset using mMode. I was NOT charged when I used Gotomypc.com. I do not use ATT connection manager. I would guess they charge more for the PDA plan because they expect PDA users will use more "unlimited" bandwidth then plain handset users. Think of it as a gas-guzzler tax. I don't believe anyone has hard data on exactly what ATT will do under what specific circumstances when it comes to tethering but the general theory has been if you stick with POP and HTTP you're OK. I have also downloaded lots of files while tethered and not been charges under mMode. Main point was, if you can get get mMode, take it. If you absolutely must be tethered and want full free unfettered access get the $79 laptop connect plan and stick a wireless card in your laptop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilliland
    On what do you base that? Have you seen the same "additional data" charges on both plans? Are you going by direct experience or on what someone has told you? I don't intend these questions as a "challenge", but I'm really trying to get some hard data here, not hearsay.

    If you've gotten "additional data" charges on the unlimited PDA plan, I'd like to better understand the specific circumstances that triggered them. Was it due to a tethered device? What protocols were in use?

    BTW, to LAUser, the data overage charges on the $24.99 plan aren't that bad. They're only $1 per megabyte, which is less than on most of AT&T's other data plans. I signed up for the $24.99 plan for that exact reason. I knew that I'd be triggering the surcharge, and I wanted to make it as low as possible.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    I know I have been charged for VNC as well as using a VPN connection tethered through my laptop from both a plain handset and a PDA handset using mMode.
    And there is the problem. The idiots at AT&T only know "tethering". The fact is that you can run VNC and VPN *from* a Treo. The 650 comes with the movian IPSEC client in the box! So if I buy a plan that tells me I can use unlimited data from my PDA then *that's* what it means. If they want to tell me what kind of data I can and can't send then they need to give me an approved list of ports and protocols and they need to give that list to me BEFORE I make a commitment. If you press them they tell you to get the $80 plan, but they don't understand that what I need to know is the limitations of the other plan so I can understand what is right for me.
  11. #11  
    I don't believe the terms of those plans allow any sort of client server operation. The fact the HARDWARE is capable and/or includes the software to do that doesn't mean you can under the terms of whatever plan you choose. You would have to choose the plan that allows it to be used. No more then owning a Maserrati that is capable of going 190mph in reverse allows you to drive down the highway at 190MPH in reverse without paying extra (in the form of a ticket). Most everything we do in life has some sort of terms, conditions, or exclusions in the form of fine print attached to them. Thing is, you need to know what they are. If client/server is excluded from unlimited data plan "A" and "B" you might have to choose "C". If you accept plan "A" without reading the terms and get charged ..... what can you do? Either pay or not. Maybe you could find a lawyer and sue 'em for something or other That probably would be your only recourse.

    I wouldn't think they need to give you list of ports. They just need to say "all client server, FTP and file sharing is excluded from this offer."


    $24.99 UNLIMITED mMODE PLAN-ADDITIONAL IMPORTANT INFORMATION
    Unlimited service only applies to e-mail, Internet and intranet access on your device; other uses (e.g., tethering, select audio/video content, games or other downloads) are an extra expense. If you use your phone to connect to another device or computer via cable, Bluetooth or infrared, you will be charged $0.001 per KB or approximately $1/MB for data sent to or from your phone and transferred over the AT&T Wireless network. You also will be charged $0.001 per KB if you remove the SIM card from your phone and use it to get wireless data service from another device or computer. The $24.99 Unlimited mMode plan is the only mMode plan available for activation on a UMTS device. This plan may not be used with service devices or with host computer applications. Such prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, continuous JPEG file transfers, automatic data feeds, telemetry applications, automated functions or any other machine-to-machine applications. This Plan may not be used to provide full-time connections, including without limitation, private lines or frame relay. AT&T Wireless reserves the right to deny or terminate service, without notice, to any person that uses AT&T Wireless' network and/or service in any manner that adversely impacts the AT&T Wireless network or service levels. AT&T Wireless reserves the right to deny or to terminate service without notice for any misuse, including without limitation, periods of excessive usage that AT&T Wireless, it its sole discretion, determines is the result of prohibited use(s). Standard voice charges apply when using data/mMode applications that generate a voice call.

    AT&T WIRELESS MOBILE INTERNET UNLIMITED PLANS—ADDITIONAL IMPORTANT INFORMATION
    The AT&T Wireless Mobile Internet $24.99/$44.99/$69.99 Unlimited plans may only be used with approved, certified devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing, (ii) email, and (iii) intranet access to government intranets, email and other government productivity applications like security and law enforcement, data collection and field inspection). The plans may not be used with server devices or with host computer applications. Such prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, continuous JPEG file transfers, automatic data feeds, telemetry applications, automated functions or any other machine-to-machine applications. The plans may not be used to provide full-time connections, including without limitation, private lines or frame relay. AT&T Wireless Mobile Internet $24.99 Unlimited Handset plan: may only be used with eligible AT&T Wireless-provided handset devices. If you use your handset to connect to another device or computer via cable, Bluetooth or infrared, you will be charged $0.001 per KB or approximately $1/MB for data sent to or from your phone and transferred over our network. You also will be charged $0.001 per KB if you remove the SIM card from your handset and use it to get wireless data service from another device or computer. AT&T Wireless Mobile Internet $44.99 Unlimited PDA plan: may only be used with the palmOne Tungsten W, palmOne Treo, Siemens SX56, Motorola MPx200, Motorola MPx220, Audiovox 4100 or similar AT&T Wireless-certified devices provided that the device is not being used as a modem with other equipment (e.g., computers or ruggedized handhelds) through use of connection kits, other phone/PDA-to-computer accessories, Bluetooth or other wireless technology.






    Quote Originally Posted by JakiChan
    And there is the problem. The idiots at AT&T only know "tethering". The fact is that you can run VNC and VPN *from* a Treo. The 650 comes with the movian IPSEC client in the box! So if I buy a plan that tells me I can use unlimited data from my PDA then *that's* what it means. If they want to tell me what kind of data I can and can't send then they need to give me an approved list of ports and protocols and they need to give that list to me BEFORE I make a commitment. If you press them they tell you to get the $80 plan, but they don't understand that what I need to know is the limitations of the other plan so I can understand what is right for me.
    Last edited by MisterEd; 02/09/2005 at 09:25 PM.
  12. #12  
    So their "unlimited internet" is limited as all hell. Now for the PDA plan I can't tether it, but can I run client-server apps from the device?
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    I have only experienced mMode myself. The PDA plan info was told to me by someone who I would expect to know what they are talking about. Neither plan (technically) allows tethering. Both plans PROBABLY won't bother you if you stick with HTTP, POP3 and IMAP while tethered but if you read the terms of both, both are excluded from tethering and any client server type use. The difference is, as I'm sure you know, mMode is sold to be from a standard "phone" device (which users will generally use less data) so the plan is cheaper, and the other is meant to be used from a PDA (data centric device) which by definition the person using it will probably use more data. So they charge more based on what is "expected" to happen. There is NO ONE that wil be able to tell you what you will be "caught" on because only ATT really knows. I know I have been charged for VNC as well as using a VPN connection tethered through my laptop from both a plain handset and a PDA handset using mMode. I was NOT charged when I used Gotomypc.com. I do not use ATT connection manager. I would guess they charge more for the PDA plan because they expect PDA users will use more "unlimited" bandwidth then plain handset users. Think of it as a gas-guzzler tax. I don't believe anyone has hard data on exactly what ATT will do under what specific circumstances when it comes to tethering but the general theory has been if you stick with POP and HTTP you're OK.
    Yes, I'm aware of all that - it was largely my research over on HoFo that allowed us to develop the relatively clear understanding that we now have about exactly what is and is not charged on the $24.99 plan.

    And now I'd like to do the same thing for the PDA plan. But I can't without information. There are two ways to get it: 1) collect it from people who are currently on the PDA plan, or 2) go on the PDA plan myself and collect my own information. Apparently, I'll have to do the latter.

    The real question is this - are there protocols that are charged on the $24.99 plan that are NOT charged on the $44.99 plan? I know what gets charged on the $24.99 plan. But I don't know what gets charged on the $44.99 plan.

    And no, I'm not willing to just take AT&T's word for it. The terms in their printed description are meaningless - they don't reflect a measureable set of conditions. And the research that we've done to date has made it very clear that the actual implementation of these plans doesn't come close to matching the written description.

    I'm looking into this for purely personal reasons. At the moment, I'm on the $24.99 plan, and I'm being charged extra for all of the traffic that I use to go to my company's network from my laptop. It seems quite possible, even somewhat likely, that the PDA plan won't have that same limitation - after all, it is normal behavior for a PDA to engage in VPN traffic. But based on the written descriptions of the two plans, there's just no way to know. The only way to figure it out is to analyze the experience of people who have already tried it.

    So we're really back to my original question: Is there anyone here who is currently on the unlimited PDA plan? If so, can you provide any insights into any "additional data" charges that AT&T may have placed on your bill? Or, conversely, have you used any unusual protocols (VPNs and the like) that were NOT billed on that plan?
  14. #14  
    Just call ATT and switch plans for a week, try it, then cancel. Then go back to their site and re-add the $24.99 plan. Data plans aren't under contract. From the terms posted above, it seems as if what is technically allowed is the same on both plans so following that logic what is NOT allowed is probably the same as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilliland
    Yes, I'm aware of all that - it was largely my research over on HoFo that allowed us to develop the relatively clear understanding that we now have about exactly what is and is not charged on the $24.99 plan.
  15. #15  
    You may be correct. I hope not <g>, but it's certainly possible. It certainly seems true that I'm going to have to do my own experimenting, though. My biggest concern is that they may not let me go back - now that there's a 650 recorded as being sold to my account, they may want to hold me to the PDA plan. And I'd hate to have to stay there if there was no benefit at all over the cheaper one. But it's probably worth the risk.

    I won't do it immediately, though. I'm still doing some testing on the $24.99 plan.
  16. #16  
    Borrow or buy a used cheap Nokia or LG handset (I got a couple LG's for $10 each as spares) so when you call back you can have the $24.99 plan put back on that, then do a sim swap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilliland
    You may be correct. I hope not <g>, but it's certainly possible. It certainly seems true that I'm going to have to do my own experimenting, though. My biggest concern is that they may not let me go back - now that there's a 650 recorded as being sold to my account, they may want to hold me to the PDA plan. And I'd hate to have to stay there if there was no benefit at all over the cheaper one. But it's probably worth the risk.

    I won't do it immediately, though. I'm still doing some testing on the $24.99 plan.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilliland
    You may be correct. I hope not <g>, but it's certainly possible. It certainly seems true that I'm going to have to do my own experimenting, though. My biggest concern is that they may not let me go back - now that there's a 650 recorded as being sold to my account, they may want to hold me to the PDA plan. And I'd hate to have to stay there if there was no benefit at all over the cheaper one. But it's probably worth the risk.

    I won't do it immediately, though. I'm still doing some testing on the $24.99 plan.

    I just checked my mMode plan on ATTWS's website. I noticed they have me registered with the Treo 650 as my device. I bought the 650 through PalmOne as an unlocked phone, so how could ATTWS/Cingular find out I am using the 650? I was careful not to use any of the online setup tools for the 650. Now that they know about my 650, can they switch me to the unlimited PDA plan?
    We are all dead, we just don't know it yet.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by thxac3
    I just checked my mMode plan on ATTWS's website. I noticed they have me registered with the Treo 650 as my device. I bought the 650 through PalmOne as an unlocked phone, so how could ATTWS/Cingular find out I am using the 650? I was careful not to use any of the online setup tools for the 650. Now that they know about my 650, can they switch me to the unlimited PDA plan?
    Same boat for me. Bought from PalmOne, but mMode knows what I have. One thing to keep in mind is that while mMode may know what phone you have, the billing program at AT&T may not know. When I talked last week to my regular old sales guy at my old AT&T store he said my account showed me having a Moto V600, which I haven't had for 2 phones and I know mMode showed me with the other phones in between.

    Rather than being switched to a $44.99 unlimited "PDA" plan, I would actually be more worried about AT&T keeping you on the 24.99 "unlimited" but then charging you for the $.001 overage fees for "non handset approved" data. That usage can add up in a hurry depending upon what you are doing.
  19. holmes4's Avatar
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    #19  
    The AT&T rep told me that the only unlimited data plan is $79.99. I'm currently on the $29.99 10MB plan (discounted to $24.something). I find this all very confusing.
  20. #20  
    He's very wrong .... try another rep. At the VERY least you should be able to get on the UNLIMITED $39.99 (or $44.99) PDA DATA plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by holmes4
    The AT&T rep told me that the only unlimited data plan is $79.99. I'm currently on the $29.99 10MB plan (discounted to $24.something). I find this all very confusing.
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