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  1. #21  
    I'm not justifying it, I'm only saying it's not correct as presented. I'm only saying that the hyperbole in the "article" in question made it out to be the only time in history such a "injustice" had be performed on the human race (if there was any "injustice" at all). Besides that, the 650 has never been advertised anywere up until just a few days ago. No newspaper ads, no magzaine ads, no TV ads, nothing. It just popped up on Cingular's and Palms website over the last week. The only time it been discussed has been in "unofficial" geek related reviews. The general public, even the overall cell-phone using public probably never heard of it or gives a damn. It's only a select group of techie geek types, like most of us here, who have been reading about the product over the last year who really care. Once it's available in large quantities, THEN they will start promoting it. At that point, when it's in all the magazines & newspapers and if they have none ..... then I'd agree with what you say.

    Any yes, I have 2 kids and 2 grandkids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    If you have kids, do you ever accept "everyone does it, so it's OK" as a valid justification for anything?

    I do understand that, in a market economy (and thank God we have one), the best product will fail if it's not promoted effectively to likely buyers. That said, I think that the choice to overhype and underdeliver rather than vice-versa speaks volumes about a company's respect--or lack thereof--for its customers, and about how deserving they are or are not of our loyalty.
  2. #22  
    I'd be curious to hear how you find the 650 release better than pretty much anything at this point. Let's take the iPod shuffle. Wanted to buy one for my wife, went online and ordered one with an estimated arrival date of 3-4 weeks. It arrived in 2... I'm a happy camper. They didn't say that they're only going to sell one to me if I agree to buy only Christina Aguilera and the Backstreet Boys from the iTunes Music Store for the next year because they'll make the most profit off those songs.

    What's so infuriating about PalmOne's release schedule is that they're essentially artifically creating a supply bottleneck for certain users only. Sprint or Cingular user? No problem... step right up.

    If PalmOne was just honest and said that the Cingular GSM version is going onsale 2/2 and the unlocked GSM is going to be released on 2/20 and ship immediately, there'd be no problem. But from what's been leaked on these forums, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that they had no intention of shipping in one week, and two is questionable.

    I take issue with the way they've been jacking around with the pricing and the release schedule on what has essentially become a paid waiting list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boobookins
    Just to get back on point - I agree with a lot of MisterEd's counter points that the 650 is better compared to products like the iPod/iPod mini and some new release cars.
  3. #23  
    Not trying to speak for him, but I think he means "no worse then", not "better then."

    Palm has major contracts with the carriers. It's not Palm who sets the rules about requiring service it's the carriers. Without the carriers buying 80% of the inventory we'd never even have a Treo.

    OF COURSE they're kissing the collective asses of Sprint and Cingular. They probably represent 80% of their sales. That just good business. You (and me and others) are just pissed because we can't get our new toy before those folks.

    They obviously are limited in what they can say because someone told them not to (as it might hurt their sales).

    It's not a paid waiting list. No one has paid up front. Has your card been charged? You are free to cancel and buy elsewhere. Pricing, maybe it was an error, maybe not. Maybe they were required to advertise it for $699. Maybe they were told if they left it at $599 they'd cancel their contract. Who knows.

    It's obvious there aren't too many marketing majors around here.



    Quote Originally Posted by srlondon
    I'd be curious to hear how you find the 650 release better than pretty much anything at this point. .............They didn't say that they're only going to sell one to me if I agree to buy only Christina Aguilera and the Backstreet Boys from the iTunes Music Store for the next year because they'll make the most profit off those songs.

    What's so infuriating about PalmOne's release schedule is that they're essentially artifically creating a supply bottleneck for certain users only. Sprint or Cingular user? No problem... step right up.

    If PalmOne was just honest and said that the Cingular GSM version is going onsale 2/2 and the unlocked GSM is going to be released on 2/20 and ship immediately, there'd be no problem. But from what's been leaked on these forums, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that they had no intention of shipping in one week, and two is questionable.

    I take issue with the way they've been jacking around with the pricing and the release schedule on what has essentially become a paid waiting list.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    If you have kids, do you ever accept "everyone does it, so it's OK" as a valid justification for anything?

    I do understand that, in a market economy (and thank God we have one), the best product will fail if it's not promoted effectively to likely buyers. That said, I think that the choice to overhype and underdeliver rather than vice-versa speaks volumes about a company's respect--or lack thereof--for its customers, and about how deserving they are or are not of our loyalty.
    The only place I've seen the Treo "over-hyped" is in these discussion boards.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    ...Besides that, the 650 has never been advertised anywhere up until just a few days ago. No newspaper ads, no magazine ads, no TV ads, nothing. It just popped up on Cingular's and Palms website over the last week. The only time it been discussed has been in "unofficial" geek related reviews. The general public, even the overall cell-phone using public probably never heard of it or gives a damn. It's only a select group of techie geek types, like most of us here, who have been reading about the product over the last year who really care.
    I corrected your mis-spelled words in your quote to keep the spelling bees off of it - LOL

    This is not exactly true. pa1mOne has advertised very strongly to the market segment that they want to attract first, "Us". The marketing channels used are not the traditional channels used to get the attention of the masses. They struck a cord with their front line salespeople, again "Us". Every Geek fest you could find online and offline has been marketed by pa1mOne in preparation of this new "toy" or "tool".

    They want us sold on the new device. We are the IT managers; we are the office geeks, the IT "go-to" people and those who influence the people that make decisions to buy - whether it is an individual, a department or a whole company. We have a circle that both publicly and privately spy the latest gadgets that we have hanging from our necks, our belts, our ears and anywhere we can hook something to. We are the Palm OS Foot soldiers. All I am trying to say is that pa1mOne has ill-prepared us for the immediate battle.

    But our complaining is useful material to those pa1mOne personnel that want to build the best products. They both love us and hate us for the same reason "We will be brutal with our honest assessments of the product and be very vocal about it" When it finally arrives, for a very short period we will forget all about this mishap. The forums attendance will decrease sharply, the email exchanges will be fewer as the new owners fiddle with the wrappings, box, and included items while the unit charges. Once the device is charged, we will again rush to the frontline both praising the pros and cursing the cons.

    Then and only then does the public begin to filter into the picture. My point is this; pa1mOne has delayed its best salespeople or marketing team for 1-2 weeks unnecessarily.
    Looking for a way to earn additional income? One that allows you to not only market services people use everyday, but the services of the future too? This opportunity provides outstanding earning potential with ongoing training and support. You are in business for yourself but never by yourself. Stop imagining and start living.

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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    It's obvious there aren't too many marketing majors around here.
    You don't have to be a "marketing major" to figure out that it is a bad idea to jack around with your most loyal and enthusiastic customers.

    Nobody is bedrudging Palm's financial interest in maximizing their carrier-based revenue as an embattled company duking it out with several 800lb gorillas in the marketplace (Micro$oft, Dell, etc). There is, however, no excuse for not playing it straight with your customers.
  7. dvdmon's Avatar
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    #27  
    I went through some similar pains with my last cellphone, the T-Mobile Sidekick. T-Mobile even owned a part of the company, and it was a lot worse because they are the only carrier that provides service (at least in the U.S). They basically used their power to make what seem to many users to be arbitrary decisions. Decisions that provided fewer options when providing more would not have cost them. For example, they would not release a solution that allowed synching of data between the Sidekick and Outlook, even though such a product was available. Also, despite many 3rd-party apps being produced, they would only provide access to download maybe one new one every 3 months. Tech-savvy folk could (not sure if you still can) register as a developer, download keys to unlock your system, and then load stuff manually via USB, but anyone who wasn't following things online and had some technical skills was out of luck.

    So, my basic point of view is that carriers are a double-edged sword. They provide the infrastructures for using these devices, but they are so antiquated in how they want to treat their customers, that they not only do that wrong, but they then muddy the waters for all their partners as well. Any manufacturers who rely on their money and support have to hold their nose and basically do what they say, for fear that they will be out major amounts of money. It's not a position I envy. I don't want to seem like I think P1 is blameless, but I think you have to take into consideration how powerful these companies are and how easy it is for them to just order the manufacturers to do what they want...
    Twitter: @dvdmon

  8. #28  
    Sorry, I'm not a typist and this vBulletin software doesn't have it's spull chucker enabled.

    How would it be "unnecessarily delayed" if the carriers aren't letting them sell them in the USA yet? They (P1) have only delayed buyers from buying an UNLOCKED GSM model direct from P1. If you call Cingular, Sprint, or (in my case) ATT direct you'd more then likely have been able to find one. Not real easy ... and with some "strings attached," but that's the way it goes with a new item in high demand. You gotta pay the piper if you want it NOW. Some stores even have them. Once small store in Watching NJ has 2 (at least as of Monday). I got one the day it was available from ATT. They have been pretty much available from the carriers direct if you want to pay the vig. The b1tching and moaning is all about P1 direct and they are obviously are at the mercy of the carrriers in the USA. You think P1 is holding them back ON PURPOSE? That's absurd. I'm also waiting for one from VC at a reduced price. I should be b1tching about that but I decided if I wanted it NOW I'd have to get it where it's available. My choice. That's not P1's fault. Problem is, no one wants to extend their contract, or they want to use it where it hasn't been made available by a carrier. If that's the case you just gotta live with it. The carriers by virtue of the big dollars have control. Without them there would be no 650 or it would cost $2000. I'd also be willing to wager that most of the people crying here aren't IT specialists who need this to survive, but plain old gadget-geeks like me. Sure, there are some exceptions but for the most part that's who hangs out in these kinds of places. Marketing 101.


    Quote Originally Posted by godschoice
    My point is this; pa1mOne has delayed its best salespeople or marketing team for 1-2 weeks unnecessarily.
  9. #29  
    Absa-pasa-toovily correct. They got 'em by the balls. Right, wrong or otherwise that's how a free market economy works.
    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon
    but I think you have to take into consideration how powerful these companies are and how easy it is for them to just order the manufacturers to do what they want...
  10. #30  
    That don't mean diddly because if their "most loyal and enthusiastic customers" want one they are still going to buy one as soon as they can. This will all be forgotten the day after they open the box and will start up all over again when the Treo 723.6 GSM is "rumored." The only way to show 'em how mad you are is to cancel your order and never buy from them again. In reality I can't see that happening very often. Check back on this board in 2-3 months and see how quiet things are once we all have our toy.
    Quote Originally Posted by srlondon
    You don't have to be a "marketing major" to figure out that it is a bad idea to jack around with your most loyal and enthusiastic customers.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    That don't mean diddly because if their "most loyal and enthusiastic customers" want one they are still going to buy one as soon as they can. This will all be forgotten the day after they open the box and will start up all over again when the Treo 723.6 GSM is "rumored." The only way to show 'em how mad you are is to cancel your order and never buy from them again. In reality I can't see that happening very often. Check back on this board in 2-3 months and see how quiet things are once we all have our toy.

    You just hit the nail on the head, friend. PalmOne, Sprint, Cingular, they don't really care about this piddly stuff, cuz they KNOW most of us will buy the thing anyway, and find some way around the problems. If we had the, uhhhhhh, maturity to tell them to take their buggy telephone and crummy service and stick it where the sun don't shine, they would stand up and take notice. But we are salivating too heavily over the prospect of our new toys and we aren't gonna do what we should. So P1 and friends won't either.
  12. #32  
    Well, lots of companies announce products before they're really available. Apple is usually pretty bad at this also. Dual PowerMac G5s, iPod Mini, iPod Shuffle, Mac Mini - all of the really high-demand products, not readily available for weeks after being announced. If being a Mac geek has tought me anything, it's that I need to be patient when new geek toys are announced.
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