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  1. #401  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I think that they are sleaze and that they treat their customers like slime. You cannot infer anything useful about their intentions from their past behavior. Do not even bother to try.

    Gradually I am starting to agree with you.
    In terms of customer respect there is palmone and there is Lexus two opposite spectrum.
    I mean the Lexus servicemen comes to my work place, takes my car, leaves a nice replacement . They service the car, bring it back to my office and leave the keys in my room. Superservice .
    And than there is P1.
    Now some of you will disagree that since Lexus is a big investment versus P1. Hey but customer satisfaction should be the priority if you want to succeed in any buisness.
  2. dvdmon's Avatar
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    #402  
    Very few companies these days exibit the kind of super service that a Lexus does. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the price of the product, but it does sometimes. All I know is that P1 has made a number of blunders over the last few months and after being pointed out and complained about in the media, there response has been very weak to say the least. They have a couple of things going for them which gives them a certain amount of invinsibility here. One is that if they are not the only company putting out a PalmOS-based phone, they are the major company doing this, as well as the major company putting out PalmOS based PDA's now that Clies have been discontinued and P1 bought Handspring. So they are basically a monopoly. If not in fact, than at least in effect. Secondly, the T600 was a superior phone, and despite a couple of problems, the T650 continues that superiority. The problem is that if P1 doesn't want the T650 to be it's last big seller, it's going to have to get its act together, stop making mistakes. There's only so long you can rest on your laurels before you start losing your loyal base and with it any confidense that you'll be able to sell a decent minimum number of units the next time around. I have no idea what's going on internally at P1, but it seems like there must be some real issues with the company because of all the mistakes recently customer relations being more of a customer alienation policy!
    Twitter: @dvdmon

  3. #403  
    I am VERY hopeful that we will see unlocked 650's ship next week. If not, it's revolution time.
    Apple iPhone 8GB
    Apple 15" Macbook Pro 2.33 Ghz C2D
    Retired Treo 650
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    #404  
    Keep in mind that cellular phones (including "smartphones") are a totally different market than the PDA market. Phone manufacturers sell their phones to carriers, not consumers.

    Have you ever tried to buy an unlocked phone direct from the manufacturer? The very fact that PalmOne is even offering an unlocked phone for sale direct from their web site is something very special.

    I do not think PalmOne has handled the $100 price increase very well. I do think they could have done a lot of things differently. However, with that in mind, I also realize that PalmOne doesn't have to even offer an unlocked version. They priced their product so they would not compete with their biggest customers, the carriers. Unless you absolutely need an unlocked phone, go to the carrier where you can get the phone now and for less than the unlocked version will ever be.

    Again, I'm not trying to defend PalmOne -- just offering a little bit of reality. Unlocked phones are special, and they will always be priced that way, and more importantly manufacturers can and do change their prices without notifying their customers.
  5. #405  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Phone manufacturers sell their phones to carriers, not consumers.
    You make an excellent point. I paid a very hefty premium for my Ericsson T68 a few years ago just to get an unlocked one to use on T-Mobile.
    BTW, that phone had to be reset a lot, too.
    ooooh, look at the shiny Copper Treo 680
  6. dvdmon's Avatar
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    #406  
    It is true that PalmOne did not have to offer unlocked phones at all. I'm greatful for that at least. However, it is in their best interest to at least offer something in the way of allowing customers who want the phone to get it without having to go through their carrier. I for one am a T-Mobile subscriber and I would have to wait until May otherwise. In order to coordinate not only with US carriers, but the dozens or scores of GSM carriers throughout the world just seems like a logistical nightmare.

    MacUser, while I know your call for revolution is tongue and cheek, I just wanted to point out that P1 never guarenteed us anything. They simply said in their email that the phones should ship "within 1 - 2 weeks." which means just that. In two weeks, they will be "late" but still, there is nothing that P1 promised in blood that you will get your phone within a certain amount of time. These are projections. I for one had to wait 3+ months to have an iPod Mini order fulfilled. If you think 1-2 weeks is bad, you should try ordering an Apple product that's in high demand!
    Twitter: @dvdmon

  7. #407  
    Order Number: 050202-215xxx
    Order Date: 2/02/2005 09:05:17 AM (Pacific) [Got the lower price!!!]
    Order Status: Back Ordered
    Received "Advance Sale" Email Confirmation: 2/02/05 11:25am Pacific
    Received "Received Your Order" Email Confirmation: 2/05/05 10:41am Pacific
    Last edited by Bob Kohn; 02/07/2005 at 08:39 PM.
  8. #408  
    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon
    .....Secondly, the T600 was a superior phone,......
    Is a superior phone.


    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon
    ....and despite a couple of problems, the T650 continues that superiority......
    You are kidding, right? Where is the smiley?

    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon
    The problem is that if P1 doesn't want the T650 to be it's last big seller, it's going to have to get its act together, stop making mistakes.
    Too late. There is no evidence that this is ever going to get better. It simply gets worse. This is the gang that can not shoot straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon
    There's only so long you can rest on your laurels before you start losing your loyal base and with it any confidense that you'll be able to sell a decent minimum number of units the next time around. I have no idea what's going on internally at P1, but it seems like there must be some real issues with the company because of all the mistakes recently customer relations being more of a customer alienation policy!
    Laurels? And those are? The 600 introduction should have taught them how not to do it. It left me with out any expectations for the 650 but I would have bet that they would not do worse. I would have lost that bet, big time.

    Buy the 600, maybe even the 650. Sell P1.
  9. #409  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Keep in mind that cellular phones (including "smartphones") are a totally different market than the PDA market. Phone manufacturers sell their phones to carriers, not consumers.

    Have you ever tried to buy an unlocked phone direct from the manufacturer? The very fact that PalmOne is even offering an unlocked phone for sale direct from their web site is something very special.

    .
    Yes, Sony Ericsson P 910 , O2 xda and HP 6135 to name a few . None of the companies make blunders like these.
    I am glad the top guy is out from P1 . What you are seeing is his left over disasters probably..
  10. #410  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Keep in mind that cellular phones (including "smartphones") are a totally different market than the PDA market.
    Sorry. That is not my problem. That is P1's problem. They have no idea how to solve it.
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    #411  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Sorry. That is not my problem. That is P1's problem. They have no idea how to solve it.
    I'm not sure where the problem is.

    a. You can get the unlocked version, for a price
    b. If you don't need unlocked, the phone is readily available from the carriers
    c. Phones are not sold like PDAs... the expectation from the carrier (not the manufacturer) is to buy a new contract; buying phones without contracts always cost more and some phone manufacturers don't even sell unlocked phones direct

    Now granted jacking up the price $100 after 2 days is pretty suspect; however, PalmOne is honoring the lower price for those that got their orders in early, and it appears they will honor the lower price if you call them up.

    Where is the problem?
  12. #412  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    I'm not sure where the problem is.

    a. You can get the unlocked version, for a price
    This is not about price. The price of a 650 is what one paid for it. There are some here who have paid as little as $250 and some who have paid as much as $800- plus. The issue is the games. The issue is that the phone is not available to all comers at some price.

    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    b. If you don't need unlocked, the phone is readily available from the carriers
    Yes? And your point is?

    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    c. Phones are not sold like PDAs... the expectation from the carrier (not the manufacturer) is to buy a new contract; buying phones without contracts always cost more and some phone manufacturers don't even sell unlocked phones direct
    And, one more time, your point is?

    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Now granted jacking up the price $100 after 2 days is pretty suspect; however, PalmOne is honoring the lower price for those that got their orders in early, and it appears they will honor the lower price if you call them up.

    Where is the problem?
    It is clear that you do not get it. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. It is about equity, fairness. You do not get it and they do not get it. At some price, I should be able to buy at the same time that Sprint users can. I should not be forced to play all of these games. Show me one more cell phone, smartphone, or PDA where the consumer is being yanked around like this.
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    #413  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    It is clear that you do not get it. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. It is about equity, fairness. You do not get it and they do not get it. At some price, I should be able to buy at the same time that Sprint users can. I should not be forced to play all of these games.
    Then it is you who do not get it... Sprint dumped the money to make the Treo 650 happen, and they were granted exclusive rights as a result of this. There is no fairness in business -- they were given the right to dominate the market for a fixed period of time as a result of their business relationship, and clearly it was a smart move for Sprint to do so.

    Cingular/ATTWS are now clearly getting some lead time prior to PalmOne declaring open season on unlocked phones. Like I said before, the carrier relationship, not the consumer one is key. Very few people will buy the unlocked phone, and selling phones direct-to-consumers is the wrong business aspect to pursue for PalmOne. The carriers will buy tens of thousands of phones if PalmOne treats them right. The US unlocked market will probably sell 10,000 units. Which one is the smarter deal?
    Show me one more cell phone, smartphone, or PDA where the consumer is being yanked around like this.
    Sony Ericsson P710a on Cingular.
  14. #414  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee

    Cingular/ATTWS are now clearly getting some lead time prior to PalmOne declaring open season on unlocked phones. Like I said before, the carrier relationship, not the consumer one is key. Very few people will buy the unlocked phone, and selling phones direct-to-consumers is the wrong business aspect to pursue for PalmOne. The carriers will buy tens of thousands of phones if PalmOne treats them right. The US unlocked market will probably sell 10,000 units. Which one is the smarter deal?
    this only happen in the US, look @ asia, i can safely say that 75% of the cellphones sold there is unlocked, people are more than willing to pay premium prices on those cellphone. this happen in the US cause of the culture that the US brought up in, free phones and cheap phones

    Sony Ericsson P710a on Cingular.
    correction, its the S710, EDGE enabled
    treo 650: on my hand nya nya nya!
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    #415  
    Quote Originally Posted by wolwol
    correction, its the S710, EDGE enabled
    oops, thanks for the catch.
  16. #416  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Then it is you who do not get it...
    Perhaps. There is clearly something going on here that I do not get.

    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Sprint dumped the money to make the Treo 650 happen, and they were granted exclusive rights as a result of this.
    And you know this, right? This is not simply specuation on your part?

    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    There is no fairness in business -- they were given the right to dominate the market for a fixed period of time as a result of their business relationship, and clearly it was a smart move for Sprint to do so.
    I am not sure that you are wrong but I am compelled to ask what your evidence is.
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Cingular/ATTWS are now clearly getting some lead time prior to PalmOne declaring open season on unlocked phones. Like I said before, the carrier relationship, not the consumer one is key.
    Perhaps. You may be right. If so, P1 wins. If not, they are dead meat.

    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    Very few people will buy the unlocked phone, and selling phones direct-to-consumers is the wrong business aspect to pursue for PalmOne.
    Perhaps. I am confident that I am not the only one who will not do business with them on this basis.


    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    The carriers will buy tens of thousands of phones if PalmOne treats them right. The US unlocked market will probably sell 10,000 units. Which one is the smarter deal?

    Sony Ericsson P710a on Cingular.
    You assume that there is not a combination of price and terms that treats all buyers equitably. I do not believe that and I do not think that you do either. I wonder why you defend these sleaze.
  17. alee's Avatar
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    #417  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    And you know this, right? This is not simply specuation on your part?
    This has been widely reported here on TreoCentral and the other news sites. I would say it's well-regarded as fact.

    "Right now, Sprint has an exclusive on the Treo 650"
    http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/artic...,118848,00.asp

    "Sprint has exclusive rights to sell the 650 through the end of the year, after which I expect other carriers to offer it if they know what's good for them."
    http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=...Y3dnFlZUVFeXkz

    "Sprint has cornered the market for this year, scooping up all of PalmOne's capacity until sometime in 2005."
    http://news.com.com/Want+a+Treo+650%...bj=news.1041.5

    Now, although the details of what was involved in making the Treo 650 exclusive, the widely regarded opinion does appear to be:
    "PLMO is in Sprint's pocket. They bankrolled the Treo 300 and 600 and probably have a sweet deal as a result."
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...01&postcount=5

    Again, I'm not here to defend PalmOne. I am just as frustrated as everyone else with the delays, the unusual price shifts and the poorly managed release. However, while I can hold them accountable on certain points (like a poorly managed release and unusual price handling), I will not hold it against them for making good business deals.

    The Sprint deal gave PalmOne a reason to produce a ton of CDMA Treos, and with the exclusivity, Sprint had a chance to attract those that wanted the Treo 650 so bad that they were willing to switch networks. That's a win for both companies in my book. If it were me, I'd be signing that contract too.
  18. #418  
    No question but that Sprint has been the big winner. That is not to say that it was the result of agreement, much less that it is the result of the kind of subsidy by Sprint that your post suggests. I do not even have a problem with a subsidy, only with the secrecy. Even that said, I do not accept that the kind of blatant and unfair preference to Sprint, and then to Cingular was the only way to meet the obligation.

    Even that said, I still do not understand why anyone defends such behavior.
  19. #419  
    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon
    MacUser, while I know your call for revolution is tongue and cheek, I just wanted to point out that P1 never guarenteed us anything. They simply said in their email that the phones should ship "within 1 - 2 weeks." which means just that. In two weeks, they will be "late" but still, there is nothing that P1 promised in blood that you will get your phone within a certain amount of time. These are projections. I for one had to wait 3+ months to have an iPod Mini order fulfilled. If you think 1-2 weeks is bad, you should try ordering an Apple product that's in high demand!
    Not to split hairs, but their website did claim that orders placed AFTER February 2nd would be delayed. My order was (050201-2095XX)
    Date: February 1, 2005 11:29:56 PM EST, obviously well before their posted delay deadline.
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  20. #420  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    No question but that Sprint has been the big winner. That is not to say that it was the result of agreement, much less that it is the result of the kind of subsidy by Sprint that your post suggests. I do not even have a problem with a subsidy, only with the secrecy. Even that said, I do not accept that the kind of blatant and unfair preference to Sprint, and then to Cingular was the only way to meet the obligation.

    Even that said, I still do not understand why anyone defends such behavior.

    [/B] Sell P1
    Just completing your last sentence.............

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