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  1.    #1  
    From a recent Yahoo news article:
    " Moreover, the Treo 650 now includes an embedded global positioning system (GPS) chip for enabling the handset to take advantage of E911 emergency location services as they become available."

    Full article here

    So when is this going to be hacked?
  2. #2  
    Hacked to do what?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Hacked to do what?
    not transmit location coordinates..
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by shinoSetsuna
    not transmit location coordinates..
    or show location coordinates

    or feed location coordinates into mapping program so you don't need GPS receiver

    etc
  5. #5  
    There is NO GPS chip inside T650s. There is the capability for e911 through your carrier's towers and technology.
  6. #6  
    As far as I have learned there are two levels of this and Treo has the lessor. Treo will always need an outside GPS to get directions. I think it is called assisted GPS that uses GPS in phones with tower signal.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by magicman
    or show location coordinates

    or feed location coordinates into mapping program so you don't need GPS receiver

    etc
    You may be able to disable the locating/tracking function, but cell GPS, and traditional GPS recievers operate differently. A GPS reciever (Garmins, Magellan, etc.) use NMEA output, which is what nav. software translates. Cell phones use a triangulation of cell towers and satellites. You'd have to write a navigation program that specifically took advantage of this.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  8. #8  
    the technology in our phones uses time differential algorithms
    to calculate the phones location. which means, it counts the
    time the phone signal bounces back to the tower for telling you
    or the 911 service where ya bee. its a very crude method right
    now, but will get better. someday we'll have this working with
    gps programs. it will be soon tho...........
  9. #9  
    A few points:

    The Treo 650 and almost all new CDMA handsets coem integrated with snaptrack based AGPS chip:

    http://www.snaptrack.com/

    It uses both tower triangulation and satellite. This is the same technology upon which E911 services is based...

    Secondly, it was recently rumored that Sprint was soon going to release its LBS (location based services) API's for the Treo 650 in the upcoming Java pluggin:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...light=lbs+java

    And here is the original Sprintpcsinfo article:

    http://sprintpcsinfo.com/modules.php...rticle&sid=652

    As well as the Java plugin download page mentioning LBS:

    https://developer.sprintpcs.com/site...ome/p_home.jsp

    Thus, the good news is that is appears LBS based apps will be available for the Treo 650 shortly. The bad news (depending on your prespective though) is that GPSone API's will be for java based apps only...

    Finally in regards to hacking...there really is nothing to hack afaikafaikafaik $b$/$c$ $until$ $Sprint$ $launches$ $its$ $LBS$ $and$ $releases$ $the$ $API$'$s$, $you$ $supposedly$ $can$'$t$ $access$ $it$ $anyway$...
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  10. #10  
    It would be cool to have lan based gps, but there are some drawbacks. If you are in remote places, you won't be able to use gps because you might not have a signal. I have a bt gps receiver and itís nice to have. I think I will just stick with that.
  11. #11  
    Actually, when Sprint opens up the API for LBS through Java, maybe that's when Shadowmite can get us a hack that allows us to access it from other apps. The LBS possibilities boggle the mind - cell companies have been amazingly shortsighted in not opening up the API earlier (it's on all Sprint phones for the last 2 years!).

    Examples:
    * I'm talking to you on the phone. You say "come meet me" and press a button. That sends my location to your phone, along with driving/walking directions.

    * All photos are tagged with the exact time and place they are taken. You can do geographic sorts of your photos (where was that photo I took at that bar...?)

    * Ask your phone where the nearest (movie theater, gas station, parking garage, ATM) is.

    * Leave "notes" at a location for others to discover. (e.g., "This restaurant sucks, don't go in").

    Sprint's been too concerned about the perceived privacy issues to launch. I say "perceived" because you can always turn off E911 (Phone App, Options->Phone Preferences->Enable Location Privacy).
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by DougKoz
    Actually, when Sprint opens up the API for LBS through Java, maybe that's when Shadowmite can get us a hack that allows us to access it from other apps. The LBS possibilities boggle the mind - cell companies have been amazingly shortsighted in not opening up the API earlier (it's on all Sprint phones for the last 2 years!).

    Examples:
    * I'm talking to you on the phone. You say "come meet me" and press a button. That sends my location to your phone, along with driving/walking directions.

    * All photos are tagged with the exact time and place they are taken. You can do geographic sorts of your photos (where was that photo I took at that bar...?)

    * Ask your phone where the nearest (movie theater, gas station, parking garage, ATM) is.

    * Leave "notes" at a location for others to discover. (e.g., "This restaurant sucks, don't go in").

    Sprint's been too concerned about the perceived privacy issues to launch. I say "perceived" because you can always turn off E911 (Phone App, Options->Phone Preferences->Enable Location Privacy).
    Damn, that's cool. Can't wait until that's available. It is 2005, right?
  13. #13  
    There would need to be a bridge between the Sprint API and the standard NEMA data that "real" GPS receivers put out in order for it to work with existing apps such as Mapopolis or TomTom. I don't think that would happen, although there certainly would be the potential for other apps to come out that do the same thing using the Sprint API, or for the authors of those apps to add it in. But the e911 location based service won't be as accurate as a true GPS, from what I understand.
  14. #14  
    It's worth reading posts #20+ at

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...treo+650+codes

    I pretty much tried to gather a couple of the people NetWizard (who wrote an article in a thread that gfunk mentions) and ShadowMite in the hopes that it would be possible to get it working with the Java for the Treo 600, plus the classes NetWizard was able to decompile. Unfortunately that seemed to run into a dead end.

    All that said, I wouldn't look for the APIs to work outside of Java, because the APIs are written in Java. They'd probably have to be written in PalmOS or someone would have to write a bridge that could start up Java to do all that backend work and return something that the PalmOS could use. In other words, don't hold your breath.

    As for how it works, you can pick up a Nextel phone with GPS today. It's probably going to approximate that functionality.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland

    All that said, I wouldn't look for the APIs to work outside of Java, because the APIs are written in Java. They'd probably have to be written in PalmOS or someone would have to write a bridge that could start up Java to do all that backend work and return something that the PalmOS could use. In other words, don't hold your breath.
    Unfortunately, you are probably correct. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't mind having to rely on the Java pluggin to access LBS... but the 650's memory constraints are soo tight that keeping the J2ME in ram is absolutely untenable!! I really wish PalmOne had put the Java pluggin into the Rom of the Treo so we wouldn't have had to worry about all this!!
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  16. #16  
    Gfunk, how big is J2ME? You can free up quite a bit of ROM space with Shadow's minimal ROM.
  17. #17  
    Has anyone seen this? Wow... an example of GPS assist. Make sure you click on interactive Demo.

    http://www.wherifywireless.com/corp_home.htm
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by zorro869
    Has anyone seen this? Wow... an example of GPS assist. Make sure you click on interactive Demo.

    http://www.wherifywireless.com/corp_home.htm
    Yeah, it's been around for probably two years now. If you actually want to see GPS tied into a phone search Google for "Nextel GPS". You'll find that many solutions exist today.
  19. #19  
    The J2ME that I have installed for the Treo 600 on my Treo 650 seems to be 1.5M or so. That's a fair amount when you count that you haven't actually counted the space of the java applications.

    As for Treo 650 memory constraints, that's up to the individual user. Gfunk seems to know a lot about every piece of Palm software, so I'm guessing that he has some issues. I, on the other hand, have only one or two extra programs, so if LBS applications came out on Java, I'd still be okay.

    I have to agree about putting the J2ME in ROM, but I think it's a situation where it's not ready for launch at the same time as the device. I think they work on making the device the best they can with the PalmOS and afterwards work on how to build the JVM for it.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    The J2ME that I have installed for the Treo 600 on my Treo 650 seems to be 1.5M or so. That's a fair amount when you count that you haven't actually counted the space of the java applications.

    As for Treo 650 memory constraints, that's up to the individual user. Gfunk seems to know a lot about every piece of Palm software, so I'm guessing that he has some issues. I, on the other hand, have only one or two extra programs, so if LBS applications came out on Java, I'd still be okay.

    I have to agree about putting the J2ME in ROM, but I think it's a situation where it's not ready for launch at the same time as the device. I think they work on making the device the best they can with the PalmOS and afterwards work on how to build the JVM for it.

    A few comments here. At last year's Treo Road Show, I specifically asked why the Java pluggin was not included in the Treo 650's Rom. Th half assed response was that they had to "pick and choose" and that it was a '"cost' issue. Furthermore, according to PalmSource which is actually lisenceses the J2ME from IBM and provides it to its lisencees:

    Will a JVM come preinstalled on all Palm OS devices?

    * A Java virtual machine is not a required component of the Palm OS and therefore is not a component PalmSource's licensees are required to support. Additionally, the Palm OS is deployed on a wide variety of devices with different capabilities and focus, not all of which are suitable for a JVM. It is left up to the licensee of the Palm OS to determine whether a JVM is needed for their device given cost constraints, memory limitations, and customer focus. As such, PalmSource cannot guarantee that a JVM will be preinstalled on all Palm OS devices. Inquiries concerning VMs on specific devices should be directed to the specific PalmSource OS licensees.
    http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/java/

    Thus, it was totally up to PalmOne to decide whether or not to include the Java pluggin in the Rom of the Treo 650. More than likely the stupid lame reasoning for only using tiny little 32 MB Nand storage contributed to the mistake of not integrating the Java pluggin into the Rom. Perhaps if they had used a larger Nand chip, they could have integrated it...

    Also, I recall Shadowmite and others have already tried to add the Java pluggin into a custom rom, but it's just too big to fit which is unfortunate. The 1.5 MB size pluggin if very unwiedly IMO and takes ukp alot of very valuable storage on a device with suh limited space as the 650. From my experience there a couple workarounds like using MSmount to place the main J2ME file on the card to launch. This has worked for me in the past using the 600 fyi. Then there is also the option of manually moving the J2ME file back and forth from the card only when you need to use them...

    Anyway, the biggest and most important reason why I want to use the Java pluggin to begin with is so I can test out the new LBS technologies in the Sprint 650. It's doubtful the Sprint will ever release native PalmOS API's for this, and thus java based LBS apps will probably be the only alternative. For this and many other reasons, I think it was a major mistake for PalmOne not to integrate the Java pluggin into the Rom of 650. If they really wanted seamless and easy Java implementation of Java in the 650, then it woudl have been integrated out the box. How many users will realy know about instaling a 3rd party pluggin and etc? For a smartphone of this complexity and cost, the Java pluggin should have been integrated from the beginnng! Yet another disppointment from PalmOne imo....
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