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  1.    #1  
    I don't totally disagree with Mossberg's conclusion that the Treo 650 is more feature rich than the 7100T, but think he blew it on one point: he didn't include reliability as a factor. I've owned many Treo products (or instances of products due to crashes) and faced many hardships on trips due to the product.

    http://ptech.wsj.com/report.html

    What good is it to have a product that isn't available in a time of need:

    On one trip to San Francisco, my Treo 300 entered into a loop of death that drained the battery in 30 minutes and made the phone too hot to hold. I had a hard time meeting up with my colleagues at the airport as we only agreed to call each other's cell phones (had to get change for phone, find public phone, etc.). Throughout rest of that trip was very out of touch with clients and colleagues.

    I experienced the Network search issue twice with a Treo 600 and was without a phone for days. Had to endure lines at Sprint stores to wait for a tech and then wait for replacements while out of stock conditions cleared.

    My phones would crash often and require soft and hard resets to restore service.

    Reading this forum, it is clear that the $500 phone has tremendous issues with quality.

    I've owned the 7100T for several months and have experienced NO issues with the phone (no resets, always works, etc.). I've been to the U.K., France, etc. get off the plane in those countries, turn on my 7100T and mail starts downloading and the phone is available for calls. I've convinced 4 folks at my workplace to switch from Treo and they LOVE the 7100T as a business device.

    In visiting the 7100T forums (e.g., the Charm section on Howards) you don't see nearly the number of issues related to quality/reliability.

    Other key points missed by Mossberg:
    >7100T is GSM quadband. Can't get that in the Treo 650 (for those who say you can, send me a picture of your GSM 650 next to your face not photoshopped). What's the use of a phone that can't travel globally? Also, he made a big deal about CDMA network speeds (which means nothing outside of the US).

    >Blackberry email/calendaring is amazing. The reliability, lack of technical knowledge needed, etc. far surpasses (you don't need to know what POP3 or SMTP mean to get mail with a Blackberry BES). Blackberry on a capable phone device makes the device 10X more valuable for the many of us that work in major corporations that won't support non-Blackberry email.

    >Built in Security. The Blackberry is built for security from the bottom up. If my device is lost, our BES administrator can disable my account and render the phone useless. Everything is password protected (but you can easily receive a call). The device even has a built-in firewall!

    >Cost was downplayed quite a bit. The fact that a $200 phone can go toe to toe with a 650 is pretty amazing.

    >Size was misquoted. The 7100T is shorter if you factor in the full length of both phones (making it lighter, thinner and narrower)
  2. #2  
    You should send this to WSJ, not TC. I am glad that you like your BB 7100....I know quite a few other people who have expressed similiar feelings. The bottom line is that one size doesn't fit all....different strokes for different folks. I, for one, love my Treo.

    And why are you comparing a Treo 300 to a BB 7100? And why are you doubting GSM Treo 650's quadband capability?
  3. #3  
    Did he type that using a 7100t??? I noticed about 5-6 typo's, maybe that blackberry software that figures out the words dosent work out so well after all...



  4.    #4  
    If you are going to dis me about typos,make sure your post dosent have any.
  5. vinman's Avatar
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    #5  
    Oll
    :-)
    Former long term user of the Treo line, then on to the HTC 8125/8525. Now I have graduated to the iPhone. For the first time since getting my first Treo 600, I am not constantly scanning the web looking for a better converged device.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    You should send this to WSJ, not TC.

    I am glad that you like your BB 7100....I know quite a few other people who have expressed similiar feelings. The bottom line is that one size doesn't fit all....different strokes for different folks. I, for one, love my Treo.

    And why are you comparing a Treo 300 to a BB 7100? And why are you doubting GSM Treo 650's quadband capability?
    And you think the odds of my point getting any airtime on WSJ would be what number times zero? Frankly, this forum offers many who are willing to debate the merits of both sides of the argument (plus, I would suspect that Walt visits/hangs out here due to his love affair with the phone). I'm not trying to say that the Treo 650 is bad, just that Walt didn't give the 7100T full credit for reliability and other core features that the business user would care about (with that said, he must have had some serious questions about which phone is better in his mind to make it one of his monthly reports).

    I referred to the 300 (flight story), 600 (network search) and 650 ($500 phone with many problems as described by the posters on this forum). Thanks for pointing out that I wasn't clear on that point.

    I don't doubt that the 650 will be out in quadband. Walt didn't point out that the Treo 650, as it is available today, would be a bad choice for those that travel outside the U.S. with any frequency. And, if he thinks global availability is important, he shouldn't have made such a big deal about bandwidth.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    I don't totally disagree with Mossberg's conclusion that the Treo 650 is more feature rich than the 7100T, but think he blew it on one point: he didn't include reliability as a factor.
    Let's talk reliability. My company has about 8 Treo and 12 blackberry (BB) devices. Of this total of 20, I've had to replace 2 BB outright - they died (I'd rather reset the phone than have dead phone). Another BB used by person going between Canada and US - stops working everytime it switches countries - sometimes would start if took the battery out. Finally had to replace that BB, when after working fine in Canada it just decided it would not find the network. Mind you RIM is based in Canada - so ATTWS called RIM to see if any outages - nada.

    On the Treo side, Sprint replaced T300 with T600 - as the T300 would go straight to voicemail. Another T300 my tech ops manager beat the crap out of - and finally broke the lid off - although could still use the phone with headset.

    You could call this draw - 25% replacement each (3/12 vs. 2/8) - however, I'd say BB had worse record as it spent more money on BB (and you can't really count the T300 that was beat up.)

    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    I've owned the 7100T for several months and have experienced NO issues with the phone (no resets, always works, etc.). I've been to the U.K., France, etc. get off the plane in those countries, turn on my 7100T and mail starts downloading and the phone is available for calls.
    In my experience, BB experience less problems because they do less (basic PDA + email period) and there's a lot less software added to BB devices. In fact of the 20 devices - no one has added sw to BB only the Treo devices.

    as far as get off and work. well my experience is US - Canada and the blackberry failed miserably as stated above.

    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    about CDMA network speeds (which means nothing outside of the US).
    The world is not just USA and Europe. GSM does have better coverage. However, CDMA is available everywhere but parts of Europe and Africa - see www.cdg.org for coverage maps. Personally, I need the speed and don't like paying the $/minute for roaming - so coverage not that important to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    >Blackberry email/calendaring is amazing. The reliability, lack of technical knowledge needed, etc. far surpasses (you don't need to know what POP3 or SMTP mean to get mail with a Blackberry BES). Blackberry on a capable phone device makes the device 10X more valuable for the many of us that work in major corporations that won't support non-Blackberry email.

    >Built in Security. The Blackberry is built for security from the bottom up. If my device is lost, our BES administrator can disable my account and render the phone useless. Everything is password protected (but you can easily receive a call). The device even has a built-in firewall!
    okay, this is apples to oranges comparison. If you want to compare then compare BES/blackberry and Good/Treo (www.good.com). Good on Treo is fantastic and is better than BES/Blackberry by far. Couple of examples, Good is full mimic of Outlook - this means all folders are wireless synched - not just inbox and delete including subfolders, public folders and of course calendar, tasks, memos. You also get rich attachment editing and viewing for word, excel and powerpoint. I'd say that's a serious business tool that leaves BB in the dust.

    With Good the Treo is zero learning as it is full Outlook on the device as compared to blackberry that you must get comfortable with jog wheel and there's no touchscreen - it is cumbersome interface.

    Good security is as good as BES - same features you mention.

    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    >Cost was downplayed quite a bit. The fact that a $200 phone can go toe to toe with a 650 is pretty amazing.
    well, little toe to big toe - $200 vs $450 (subsidized prices for both); Treo has camera, camcorder, MP3 player, SD slot, more memory, sound recorder, more available apps, etc. if you don't need any of those items and you just want basic email and basic pda then why pay for Treo.
    Palm Pre and a nice collection of Treos: 755p, 700, 650, 600, 300 and Palm Pilots, Visors, and Sony Clie
  8. #8  
    Both sides sound reasonable to me for the most part. I think the BB is really perfect for some users, and the Treo is definitely the better choice for others. I could never go with a BB, for example. I need choices in 3rd party apps and some fairly exotic uses, which the Palm platform provides. Nothing like that on the BB. But I do enjoy learning about other devices and hearing people's experiences on both sides, even if I already made my personal choice.

    I would just remind you that it's really not a competition or a religion or a political party. No need to tell someone to not post his opinion here, or to deconstruct his post into little pieces and argue each one out of context - for example davidrmay argues that comparing the BB vs the Treo is unfair and should be the BB vs Treo+Good (which makes sense if money is out of the equation), but then says that the difference in price is not very big because the BB is $200 and the Treo $450 after subsidies. Shouldn't he have added the price of Good per year to that?. I find that kind comment somewhat dishonest.

    Individual personal experience with breakdowns is good, but probably not a perfect representation of most user experience. I think it's more or less an established fact that BBs are simply more reliable than Treos, partly because of their simplicity, size and somewhat more rigid uses, and partly because, let's face it, Treos have usually suffered from weak quality right after launch. Most people here had to swap Treo 600's at least once, including myself - and some of us have real horror stories with build quality. On the software side, I happen to accept that as part of the Treo's complexity - it's logical that a more complex, ambitious, flexible device might suffer from a wider variety of software problems than a closed, limited device like the BB. In my book, that doesn't make the Treo necesarilly worse, it's just a logical side effect of its flexibility and accessibility. It's reasonable to expect that anything running 3rd party apps is open to crashing at some point. That's no excuse for poor built-in software or weak build quality though (keyboard problems, stained screens, broken radios, broken speakerphones, squeaky battery covers, etc.), that's just poor design.

    And regarding CDMA vs GSM coverage... "parts of Europe and Africa"? I don't know, I don't consider all of Germany, Sweden, Austria, Italy, Spain, France, and the UK a "part of Europe". Those are basically the most important countries in Europe, and my CDMA Treos have never worked in any of them, whereas GSM works without a problem everywhere. believe me, I would like nothing more than having CDMA coverage all over the world, but he's right in saying that GSM is simply more convenient when traveling between Asia, America and Europe, I don't see what that would need to be argued against. I would just remind him that a GSM Treo is supposed to be on sale soon...
  9. #9  
    "...but then says that the difference in price is not very big because the BB is $200 and the Treo $450 after subsidies. Shouldn't he have added the price of Good per year to that?. "


    He should also add the cost of the BES server to the BB cost.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    I don't doubt that the 650 will be out in quadband. Walt didn't point out that the Treo 650, as it is available today, would be a bad choice for those that travel outside the U.S. with any frequency. And, if he thinks global availability is important, he shouldn't have made such a big deal about bandwidth.
    This is not a phone hardware issue, but rather a network issue. All CDMA phones will have this issue. If BB ever comes out with a CDMA 7100, it too will have this problem. Walt did the right thing by not pointing this out in his review. He was reviewing the phone, not the wireless network. You criticisim on this issue is unfounded

    And if you truly feel that Walt did a bad job of reviewing Treo 650, I would suggest e-mailing your piece directly to Walt and I wouldn't be surprised if he actually responded. You can find Walt's email address on www.wsj.com.
    Last edited by Rome; 01/21/2005 at 12:14 PM.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    I would just remind you that it's really not a competition or a religion or a political party. No need to tell someone to not post his opinion here, or to deconstruct his post into little pieces and argue each one out of context - for example davidrmay argues that comparing the BB vs the Treo is unfair and should be the BB vs Treo+Good (which makes sense if money is out of the equation), but then says that the difference in price is not very big because the BB is $200 and the Treo $450 after subsidies. Shouldn't he have added the price of Good per year to that?. I find that kind comment somewhat dishonest.
    first rebuttal of the lecture ....
    why do you feel necessary to preach? I was Comp,Rel,Pol-free. I thought breaking it down provided a better reply. You've your style I have mine. There's no rules. BTW, you are practically telling me not to post and I NEVER told anyone not to post. 'dishonest' - I will take this in the spirit of the article since you don't know me nor I know you. I'm never dishonest.

    now, back to regularly scheduled forum...
    please re-read my response - in section when comp. prices I spoke of only features of the devices. Treo has a LOT more features hence is priced higher any way you measure it. $300 vs $600 or $200 vs $450. But now that you mention it... Good is superset of features of BES. As BES just does inbox and calendar wireless sync, while Good does all folders. Pricewise, BES is about $235/client when bought in 20 client pack (BES updates & support bought separately - I don't know the cost). Good is $330/user/yr in qty of 1 and includes sw updates & support - not that you need it as it works great. Again, Good is priced higher and it does more.
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Individual personal experience with breakdowns is good, but probably not a perfect representation of most user experience. I think it's more or less an established fact that BBs are simply more reliable than Treos, partly because of their simplicity, size and somewhat more rigid uses, and partly because, let's face it, Treos have usually suffered from weak quality right after launch. Most people here had to swap Treo 600's at least once, including myself - and some of us have real horror stories with build quality.
    This forum is probably not good representation either. I see no posts of 'no problems with my Treo'. So we don't have good evidence either way. My individual experience with 20 devices that's a little better than someone with 2 devices. And that experience tells me BB are not reliable - I've got 2 dead BB and no dead Treo sitting in my cabinet. Let me be the first to say my T600 as been very reliable since day 1 - 9 Oct. 2003 and was in the supposed 'bad serial number range'. Obviously, others experiences very.

    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    And regarding CDMA vs GSM coverage... "parts of Europe and Africa"?...I don't see what that would need to be argued against.
    oops, you slipped again - taken out of context sorry could not resist.

    I value speed and cost over coverage - and that's what I 'argued against'. Even if CDMA was available in UK at $1-$2/minute I would not use it. I bought prepaid UK phone and use that to call US and UK. My Treo turns into PDA only - works for me - I don't like paying high $ for voice minutes.
    Palm Pre and a nice collection of Treos: 755p, 700, 650, 600, 300 and Palm Pilots, Visors, and Sony Clie
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidrmay
    I value speed and cost over coverage - and that's what I 'argued against'. Even if CDMA was available in UK at $1-$2/minute I would not use it. I bought prepaid UK phone and use that to call US and UK. My Treo turns into PDA only - works for me - I don't like paying high $ for voice minutes.
    A lot of this really does depend on use and ability to receive reimbursement for use. On a trip to France with my 7100T, I was meeting with a client for three days and was able to keep up with other client projects/inquiries/questions as part of a sales process during breaks, lunch and off hours. I think I spent something like $15 for data charges during that week.

    In your scenario/technology, I would have been unavailable to my clients for the better part of 3 days, would have had to communicate a new phone number, find a phone to buy, worry about pre-paid minutes running out/recharging, etc. The 650/CDMA isn't a global phone (which is pretty well accepted).

    The power of being able to get normal email access across the globe is incredible. This is especially true when hotels in Europe charge unbelievable rates for data calls and/or bandwidth (I was charged $150 during the same period for broadband coverage in my hotel room).

    The reason I think Mossberg blew the GSM/global point (even though it is coming soon) is that a number of people are going to rush out and get the current Treo 650 on his advice (i.e., this weekend) and have a painful aha moment when they realize their converged device recommended by Mossberg turns into a very expensive pda once they board a plane for Europe (or name most other spots outside the US). I know, if they don't do their homework it is their own fault but Mossberg will share some of the blame (given absolutely no mention in his article of a very important point to many business people).
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    In your scenario/technology, I would have been unavailable to my clients for the better part of 3 days, would have had to communicate a new phone number, find a phone to buy, worry about pre-paid minutes running out/recharging, etc. The 650/CDMA isn't a global phone (which is pretty well accepted).

    The power of being able to get normal email access across the globe is incredible. This is especially true when hotels in Europe charge unbelievable rates for data calls and/or bandwidth (I was charged $150 during the same period for broadband coverage in my hotel room).

    The reason I think Mossberg blew the GSM/global point (even though it is coming soon) is that a number of people are going to rush out and get the current Treo 650 on his advice (i.e., this weekend) and have a painful aha moment when they realize their converged device recommended by Mossberg turns into a very expensive pda once they board a plane for Europe (or name most other spots outside the US). I know, if they don't do their homework it is their own fault but Mossberg will share some of the blame (given absolutely no mention in his article of a very important point to many business people).
    This is very unfair to Mossberg. As I had previously mentioned, the worldwide coverage issue is a wireless network issue, not a handset/hardware issue. What if one had bought a Sprint Blackberry 7750 because his friend was bragging about checking emails on his BB in Europe and forgot to tell him that his carrier was Cingular. Is BB 7750 then a bad phone??
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    A lot of this really does depend on use and ability to receive reimbursement for use. On a trip to France with my 7100T, I was meeting with a client for three days and was able to keep up with other client projects/inquiries/questions as part of a sales process during breaks, lunch and off hours. I think I spent something like $15 for data charges during that week.

    In your scenario/technology, I would have been unavailable to my clients for the better part of 3 days, would have had to communicate a new phone number, find a phone to buy, worry about pre-paid minutes running out/recharging, etc. The 650/CDMA isn't a global phone (which is pretty well accepted).
    I understand your first point - who pays drives this decision. However, I continue discussion here just a bit longer...

    on data side $15 not a problem no matter who pays. however, I never feel out of touch as there's so many ways to get email - any terminal will work. So when I have a choice even in the US, I will grab a terminal over using my Treo or BB - just quicker.

    on the voice side - I just change my voice message(s) and leave it to the caller to decide as inbound calls in Europe are free to me (ah there's that cheap streak again). your pre-pay minutes are only outbound and you can do that over the phone with IVR self-service system. About the only hassle is buying the phone and that takes about 30 minutes the first time - the gotcha - I needed a local UK address - I used my companies UK office.

    TIP: I used my US credit card for pre-pay phone and they wanted my billing address - I gave them my US address and they got stuck (zipcode not valid for UK - darn sw). So I gave them my UK office address and it worked - you'd think it would have been rejected as mismatch - but it works every time.
    Palm Pre and a nice collection of Treos: 755p, 700, 650, 600, 300 and Palm Pilots, Visors, and Sony Clie
  15. #15  
    Well, I'm currently a 7100t user and after owning this phone since October, I've realized what I really want is a full-blown pda/phone - and, that's the Treo 650. When buying my 7100t, I thought about getting the T600 as well as waiting for the T650 but, at that time, I didn't think I wanted a full pda/phone. As an earlier poster mentioned, the 7100t will be perfect for some users and the Treo for others.

    One thing I'm sick and tired of on my 7100t is how I keep getting Java exception errors randomly - sometimes it's when I try to view an email, other times, it's when I view the call log. It doesn't happen all that often but enough to annoy me and make me realize the O/S is still buggy.

    Just my $.02.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidrmay
    first rebuttal of the lecture ....
    why do you feel necessary to preach? I was Comp,Rel,Pol-free. I thought breaking it down provided a better reply. You've your style I have mine. There's no rules. BTW, you are practically telling me not to post and I NEVER told anyone not to post. 'dishonest' - I will take this in the spirit of the article since you don't know me nor I know you. I'm never dishonest.
    Well I wasn't specifically referring to you in that case. Rome made a reference to sending it to WSJ and not TC, and it's a running theme in this forum that people come into threads demanding in different ways that people stop "whining" or posting complaints about the Treo because they have "heard enough", and I find that particularly grating. And I have zero interest in getting into a semantic catch-22, but I really, REALLY can't see where I told you not to post.
    And yes, you're right, I don't know you and you may be the most honest person on earth, but to me it seemed like you were stretching facts in order to "sell" the idea that the difference in price between a Treo and the BB wasn't too bad. Hell, maybe I'm wrong about that, let's look at your numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrmay
    now, back to regularly scheduled forum...
    please re-read my response - in section when comp. prices I spoke of only features of the devices. Treo has a LOT more features hence is priced higher any way you measure it. $300 vs $600 or $200 vs $450. But now that you mention it... Good is superset of features of BES. As BES just does inbox and calendar wireless sync, while Good does all folders. Pricewise, BES is about $235/client when bought in 20 client pack (BES updates & support bought separately - I don't know the cost). Good is $330/user/yr in qty of 1 and includes sw updates & support - not that you need it as it works great. Again, Good is priced higher and it does more.
    Well, exactly.. the Treo IS more expensive. I happen to think it's reasonable that it's more expensive (more features, more flexibility, etc.), but I wouldn't try to downplay the price difference, which is what I thought you were doing when I read your response... I thought "so... The 650 is $450 after subisidies vs $200 for the BB, but that doesn't come with Good, and I know Good's expensive. If he's arguing that Good makes the Treo kill the BB, why isn't it (and its counterpart) included in his comparison?"
    Maybe I was expecting too much thoroughness from a casual post, but since I feel I owe you an explanation, that's where my comment came from.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrmay
    This forum is probably not good representation either. I see no posts of 'no problems with my Treo'. So we don't have good evidence either way. My individual experience with 20 devices that's a little better than someone with 2 devices. And that experience tells me BB are not reliable - I've got 2 dead BB and no dead Treo sitting in my cabinet. Let me be the first to say my T600 as been very reliable since day 1 - 9 Oct. 2003 and was in the supposed 'bad serial number range'. Obviously, others experiences very.
    Yeah, so again, you seem to agree with me now. I am not saying these forums are a perfectly accurate representation of quality issues, but they are a representation in that it is a premiere community (if not 'the') for interested owners of the device, as opposed to, say, my office. If you read though Treocentral (and Visorcentral) discussion history you will see that there are a LOT of people here who had to exchange their T600s at least once (and me plus 2 out of 3 t600 owners I personally know), and a few of them 3 and 4 times if I remember correctly, and it all adds up. On the other hand I have never heard a massive number of similar complaints from BB owners in person or in user forums. If there's a convincing argument that would maybe explain this as BB users being less communicative with each other, I could agree that we simply don't know, but so far I haven't been able to reach that conclusion. It would make sense though, because Blackberry has gone through more generations in a shorter time than Treos, haven't they?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrmay
    oops, you slipped again - taken out of context sorry could not resist.
    Sorry, you're wrong, that was not out of context, at all. You explicitly said tha CDMA works everywhere except "parts of Europe and Africa", and real world experience completely contradicts that specific statement - not to mention the graph you referred to yourself, with which I am familiar, contradicts that statement as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrmay
    I value speed and cost over coverage - and that's what I 'argued against'. Even if CDMA was available in UK at $1-$2/minute I would not use it. I bought prepaid UK phone and use that to call US and UK. My Treo turns into PDA only - works for me - I don't like paying high $ for voice minutes.
    And that's fine - hell I do the same, I bought a small GSM phone I take with me when I travel to Europe and keep it next to my Treo. But don't dismiss someone's perfectly logical comment that GSM is simply a more reliable protocol than CDMA for those of us who have to travel to Europe very often. I still don't understand how that's an arguable point. Perhaps it's the way you say it, as if it's the GSM guy vs. you, the CDMA guy: "The world is not just USA and Europe. GSM does have better coverage. However, CDMA is available everywhere but parts of Europe and Africa"
    He's just saying GSM simply works when you get off the plane in France and that's why he prefers it, and you answer with what I feel is, again, a fact stretched to its limits in order to sell the idea that GSM is not so superior. Again, gives me the impression of a somewhat dishonest comment, whereas your response above "I value speed and cost over coverage..." is a perfectly reasonable subjective choice.

    But please, no more semantic battles for me. My point is that I think we, as a group, really should all have a more inquisitive attitude instead of being so defensive about everything. Too many people around here make posts to find themselves under attack by the defenders of PalmOne, the Treo 600, the Treo 650, CDMA, GSM, the Mac, the PC, etc., ad nauseam.
    Last edited by NSiNSiNSi; 01/22/2005 at 05:05 AM.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Well I wasn't specifically referring to you in that case. Rome made a reference to sending it to WSJ and not TC, and it's a running theme in this forum that people come into threads demanding in different ways that people stop "whining" or posting complaints about the Treo because they have "heard enough", and I find that particularly grating.
    I think you misunderstood me. This is a free country, and everyone can say whatever the heck he wants to say. I am all for that.

    If you go back and read Carmatin's original post again, his main thesis was that Mossberg blew his review. And he then went on and explain why/how Mossberg blew it. Yes, he had issues with Treos, and Treo is not for every one....nothing is. I simply suggested that if Carmatin feel so strongly about the Mossberg's Treo 650 review (which seems to be the case judging from his post), he "should" send his piece to WSJ, not TC.

    I don't go to any BB boards and brag about how great my Treo is and how inferior their BB 7100ts are. I simply request the same courtesy from Carmatin, who doesn't appear to own or have owned a Treo 650 before.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    I simply suggested that if Carmatin feel so strongly about the Mossberg's Treo 650 review (which seems to be the case judging from his post), he "should" send his piece to WSJ, not TC.
    Point taken. Understand however that my comment is also a product of the general tone many people adopt in these forums, i.e. "say what I want to hear or shut up". Not that that's what you said, but that's the environment a lot of people have instigated around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    I don't go to any BB boards and brag about how great my Treo is and how inferior their BB 7100ts are. I simply request the same courtesy from Carmatin, who doesn't appear to own or have owned a Treo 650 before.
    Well, It doesn't sound to me like he came here to brag about how great his BB is, I think he made some reasonable points, and I for one appreciate any input on how the Treo compares to other available options.
    For all I care he COULD come to brag as long as he keeps his arguments honest and realistic.

    I don't agree with the popular argument that people who don't own 650's can't comment on it, either.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Well, It doesn't sound to me like he came here to brag about how great his BB is, I think he made some reasonable points, and I for one appreciate any input on how the Treo compares to other available options.
    For all I care he COULD come to brag as long as he keeps his arguments honest and realistic.

    I don't agree with the popular argument that people who don't own 650's can't comment on it, either.
    This is where you and I disagree. His point on CDMA Treo 650 not being a world phone, thus inferior to a BB 7100, is simply invalid. This is a wireless network issue, not a phone hardware issue. Some of his other points did have merit.

    As for your disagreement of people who don't own 650's can't comment on it sentiment, I have to disagree somewhat as well. True that they can say whatever they want, but they have no credibility as far as I am concerned. I have opinions on a lot things that I don't have any first-hand personal expierence, but I certainly wouldn't go around and attack a seasoned and well-respect journalist who had spent a lot of time with the device personally. And if I remember correctly, Mossbert actually bought a Treo 650 for his personal use with his own money.

    Having said all these, I believe the BB 7100 is a fine device that serves its target market well. I hope that P1 will learn from BB and come out with an interesting entry-level smartphone herself.
  20. #20  
    It just sucks you can load cool software on a phone for the sole purpose of making it reboot. Blackberries have limited functionality regarding loading software to they are inherently more stable, probably just as stable as a virgin Treo..any flavor.

    But loading program s is so fun! For those who love their Blackberries I say: Bike or Die!

    Derek
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