Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 28 of 28
  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    ....
    The reason I think Mossberg blew the GSM/global point (even though it is coming soon) is that a number of people are going to rush out and get the current Treo 650 on his advice (i.e., this weekend) and have a painful aha moment when they realize their converged device recommended by Mossberg turns into a very expensive pda once they board a plane for Europe (or name most other spots outside the US). I know, if they don't do their homework it is their own fault but Mossberg will share some of the blame (given absolutely no mention in his article of a very important point to many business people).
    First Mossberg writes a poor review IYO and now he is partially to blame because someone is too stupid to ask their carrier if the phone they just bought will work in other parts of the world. Cmon man get real.

    Using this "logic" if I were to buy a new electric shaver based on a review in Consumer Reports and then went on vacation to Europe only to find out it wouldnt run on the power there, it is CR's fault because they failed to mention intheir review that it need an adapter to use European power?

    So i guess, again using your "logic" you might advocate the practice of putting warning labels on CDMA phones informing the user that the phone will not work in Europe. How about a label about underwater use while we are at it?

    If a person buys a phone with the intent to use it overseas and doesnt ask if the carrier they have chosen offers overseas coverage or if the phone works on overseas networks, they are flat out stupid. You cannot blame any of that on a journalist who wrote a review. It is not his responsibility to babysit everyone who reads his review. It is his opinion and I am sure Walt will agree if he read this that it is not his fault if an uninformed consumer makes a bad choice based on reading a journalists opinion piece.

    Also the fact that you think all these people are going to run right out and buy the 650 based on his review and be shocked when is doesnt work in Europe is pretty silly. Very few people run right out and buy $600 phones or pdas for that matter without some research. If you are dumb enought to do that you deserve what you get.

    Lastly I am one of those that think an opinion of something based on the comments of others is crap. I have read hundreds of posts about the 650 before and after my purchase and have no issues whatsoever. My phone works fine. Has few quirks but I love it. It's full of lots of software and I have replaced the rom 4 times w/o issue. No problems.

    When you have walked a mile in my shoes, only then can you know what that mile is like. Until then youre just reading a map and remember not all maps are current or accurate.
    Last edited by Woof; 01/22/2005 at 11:22 PM.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    ....I hope that P1 will learn from BB and come out with an interesting entry-level smartphone herself.

    Ummmmm...is there something Freudian here? I didn't know PalmOne as a corporate entity had a gender. Unless you think of it as a ship, or a country. Or you really, really, uhhhhhh, like it a whole lot....
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    First Mossberg writes a poor review IYO and now he is partially to blame because someone is too stupid to ask their carrier if the phone they just bought will work in other parts of the world. Cmon man get real.

    Using this "logic" if I were to buy a new electric shaver based on a review in Consumer Reports and then went on vacation to Europe only to find out it wouldnt run on the power there, it is CR's fault because they failed to mention intheir review that it need an adapter to use European power?

    So i guess, again using your "logic" you might advocate the practice of putting warning labels on CDMA phones informing the user that the phone will not work in Europe. How about a label about underwater use while we are at it?

    If a person buys a phone with the intent to use it overseas and doesnt ask if the carrier they have chosen offers overseas coverage or if the phone works on overseas networks, they are flat out stupid. You cannot blame any of that on a journalist who wrote a review. It is not his responsibility to babysit everyone who reads his review. It is his opinion and I am sure Walt will agree if he read this that it is not his fault if an uninformed consumer makes a bad choice based on reading a journalists opinion piece.
    Consumer Reports understands that features and price mean nothing without quality. Their whole mission revolves around assessing the quality of products. In my opinion, Mossberg loses tremendous amounts of credibility when he doesn't take quality into account quality in his reviews of product and makes no mention of global reach.

    Your logic would then seem to suggest that it is not possible for the circumstances for an individual to change over time. I've seen cases at work where someone is in a role with no travel and then we do an acquisition in the UK and they end up traveling back and forth for a year. Imagine the poor sap that enters into a 24 month contract with a CDMA carrier in the US who then learns 3 months later that global travel has become a major aspect of their job. Scenarios like these can happen frequently, circumstances change and my logic on this point was not flawed, IMO.

    In my experience most business hotels in Europe accomodate standard US shavers by providing an appropriate outlet in the bathroom labeled "Shavers Only". There is no like accomodation for those who walk off a plane with a CDMA phone in their hand (they are truly SOL).


    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Also the fact that you think all these people are going to run right out and buy the 650 based on his review and be shocked when is doesnt work in Europe is pretty silly. Very few people run right out and buy $600 phones or pdas for that matter without some research. If you are dumb enought to do that you deserve what you get.
    Again, circumstances change, phone contracts are long these days (24 months is becoming the norm) and even those who do research will downplay the global aspect if it global isn't one of their needs at the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Lastly I am one of those that think an opinion of something based on the comments of others is crap. I have read hundreds of posts about the 650 before and after my purchase and have no issues whatsoever. My phone works fine. Has few quirks but I love it. It's full of lots of software and I have replaced the rom 4 times w/o issue. No problems.
    Although you did it, can you really state that I am to form no opinion based on the comments of others and then, within the same paragraph, provide the comment "my phone works fine, its full of software, no problems?". You are an other to me so, using your advice, I choose to not alter my opinion. Do you really hold your fellow Treo owners in so little regard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    When you have walked a mile in my shoes you cannot know what that mile is like. Until then youre just reading a map and remember not all maps are current or accurate.
    Thanks, I'm glad to see that you are open to seeing things from viewpoints other than your own.

    Walk a mile in my shoes
    just walk a mile in my shoes
    Before you abuse, criticize and accuse
    Then walk a mile in my shoes --Joe South
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    Consumer Reports understands that features and price mean nothing without quality. Their whole mission revolves around assessing the quality of products. In my opinion, Mossberg loses tremendous amounts of credibility when he doesn't take quality into account quality in his reviews of product and makes no mention of global reach.
    My reference to Consumer Reports had nothing to do with quality, nor did the part of your comments to which I was refering. We were talking about features remember.

    Your logic would then seem to suggest that it is not possible for the circumstances for an individual to change over time. I've seen cases at work where someone is in a role with no travel and then we do an acquisition in the UK and they end up traveling back and forth for a year. Imagine the poor sap that enters into a 24 month contract with a CDMA carrier in the US who then learns 3 months later that global travel has become a major aspect of their job. Scenarios like these can happen frequently, circumstances change and my logic on this point was not flawed, IMO.
    Hmm, this is the first mention I have seen about circumstances changing. I guess now we are talking about the manufacturer because Wlt has nothing to do with the fact that CDMA phones arent supported everywhere. And to that fact I might point out that cdma phones have never bnen billed as world phones. But more directly to your point. What kind of person expects that everything they buy will always be compatible with changing situations? The poor sap you mention above should have a new phone provided by his company if they are the reason he is now jetting around the world. Every company I have worked for that required travel and there have been a few, has provided my cell phone if it was at all important for me to stay in touch. Again it is certainly not the carrier, the manufacturer or some journalists responsibility to anticipate every change that could take place in your life. Don't be foolish.

    In my experience most business hotels in Europe accomodate standard US shavers by providing an appropriate outlet in the bathroom labeled "Shavers Only". There is no like accomodation for those who walk off a plane with a CDMA phone in their hand (they are truly SOL)
    .

    It was a simple example but since you commented. I guess every hotel now is responsible to provide every possible option for their clients. Again foolishness. I suppose if you lived in the city and drove a hmmm lexus 300 sedan and you job suddenly relocated you to somew mountainous location that required fulltime fourwheel drive to get around, it would now be Lexus' fault because the 300 sedan doesnt have fourwheel drive and enough clearance? I mean they didnt anticipate 'changing circumstances' and now you are SOL because you cant get around because you job has put you in a place where a sedan is no good. Same scenario, different product, but I am sure you'll see it differently.

    Again, circumstances change, phone contracts are long these days (24 months is becoming the norm) and even those who do research will downplay the global aspect if it global isn't one of their needs at the time.
    Companies have much more flexibility to change plans and equipment than individuals.

    Although you did it, can you really state that I am to form no opinion based on the comments of others and then, within the same paragraph, provide the comment "my phone works fine, its full of software, no problems?". You are an other to me so, using your advice, I choose to not alter my opinion.
    You can form any opinion you want based on anything you read, but you are cheating yourself if you dont do it based on YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. But reading these posts I get the feeling you want to be taken care of by others and prefer to just accept that which you read rather than live life yourself. No offense but thats how you make it sound.

    And my comments are about MY EXPERIENCE. I didnt say you should buy a 650, just told you how it worked for me. Go buy one yourself and try it. If it doesnt suit your needs then return it.

    Do you really hold your fellow Treo owners in so little regard?
    Ya I think everyone who owns a treo is a moron, no wait I think they are all brilliant, no wait..... give me a break. My regard for my fellow treo owners isnt based on what they think of their phone. That is just stupid. I also have never met anyone on here face to face so I know nothing about who they are. But I will say I hold in higher regard those that have provided feedback based on actually experience more so than those who constantly complain about things they have little or no personal experience with.



    Thanks, I'm glad to see that you are open to seeing things from viewpoints other than your own.

    Walk a mile in my shoes
    just walk a mile in my shoes
    Before you abuse, criticize and accuse
    Then walk a mile in my shoes --Joe South
    Sarcasm is much better when you use the smileys. Some people might take offense. I am open to others opinions and veiwpoints, but I have little use for an opinion based on others experiences. I have never owned a treo 300 so it would be unfair for me to say it was good or bad just because I have read both. I cannot in good faith form a real opinion until I have had a chance to use it for myself. I like to live on the edge and am willing to take responsibility for my own decisions and actions and just dont feel the need to blame newspaper columnists for my bad decisions, but hey to each his own.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  5.    #25  
    My point is much more simple than you are making it seem. Mossberg holds esteem as a commentator on technology. My premise is that he missed several important factors in his analysis...quality being the most important.

    Based on my EXPERIENCE, my Treo 300 (with replacements) and Treo 600 (with replacements) had terrible quality (and durability). Many others have shared the same experience over and over on this board and Walt should have picked up on the fact (even with the current 650 model). He may be willing to look the other way on quality because the Treo is a breakthrough product and can do cool things.

    If you don't think quality is a factor that should be part of a commentary, just say so and why. Otherwise, get over it.
    Last edited by camartin; 01/22/2005 at 05:41 PM.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    .... He may be willing to look the other way on quality because the Treo is a breakthrough product and can do cool things.

    If you don't think quality is a factor that should be part of a commentary, just say so and why. Otherwise, get over it.
    Walt Mossberg was reviewing the Treo 650 that he had. How can he possibly speak to quality of the unit if his has no quality issues? The review of a new product usually doesnt focus too much if at all on the past especially when this is the first version of this product that PalmOne released. Past quality issues are not their issues. Another company made all the previous treos, or did you forget that.

    As to quality itself I had four treo 600's before my 650 so dont lecture me on quality. Besides I was taking issue with your comments about cdma not working elsewhere and Mossberg being responsible for peoople not knowing that.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    When you have walked a mile in my shoes you cannot know what that mile is like. Until then youre just reading a map and remember not all maps are current or accurate.
    This is my favorite line.....deep
  8. #28  
    Mossbery reviews new products (sometimes before general release), so his reviews like many 'new product reviewers' don't include reliability.

    p.s. just to add to the positive reliability. I had T300 for over a year before I got T600 and had no problems. I just think this board will always be filled with 'problems'. And in my earlier reply I was just giving alternate viewpoint - that over 20 devices - the reliablity has been different than this board would lead you to believe.
    Palm Pre and a nice collection of Treos: 755p, 700, 650, 600, 300 and Palm Pilots, Visors, and Sony Clie
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions