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  1.    #1  
    I not the best writer, so I hope somone who is take over the Thread.

    But I feel we should start some open source project here on Treo Central, and the other various Treo board.

    Alot of the application we buy are totaly over price, and lack the function we really need. And lot of us want to learn how to program our own application for I Treo's. Well Know heres I chance.

    I have programming experience, but no palm platform Experience, but I currently learning for this site
    http://www.palmone.com/us/developers/

    They provide Software, Sample code, Treo 600 simulator, and So support for Developers. There are also plenty of Free Palm programming Tutorial online.


    Why purchase over price Software, when we can ALL help create free version of it, and Gain Knowledge for our own development projects.

    If anyone is interest, or have any good Idea, please Post.

    Thanks.
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  2. #2  
    I replied to your earlier post about how to get around the time limits for free trial software, so I won't repeat everything here, but..

    I disagree strongly that "A lot of the applications are totally overpriced." Compared to software for other platforms, most Palm software is an incredible bargain. Try before buy is the norm for Palm apps, rare in other platforms. Do you work for free? If not, why begrudge other people payment for their work. I think if you really can't afford to buy some software for your Treo, you probably can't afford a Treo, either.

    But if you absolutely can't stand the thought of paying for software, at least put in some of your own time and effort. There have been dozens, if not hundreds, of free apps posted here on TC. There are thousands on freewarepalm and other sites. Learn to use the search function here on TC, and google, and search out those free apps for yourself. If you find some good ones, post a list of them here, so others may benefit. In other words, Give rather than Take.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    I replied to your earlier post about how to get around the time limits for free trial software, so I won't repeat everything here, but..

    I disagree strongly that "A lot of the applications are totally overpriced." Compared to software for other platforms, most Palm software is an incredible bargain. Try before buy is the norm for Palm apps, rare in other platforms. Do you work for free? If not, why begrudge other people payment for their work. I think if you really can't afford to buy some software for your Treo, you probably can't afford a Treo, either.

    But if you absolutely can't stand the thought of paying for software, at least put in some of your own time and effort. There have been dozens, if not hundreds, of free apps posted here on TC. There are thousands on freewarepalm and other sites. Learn to use the search function here on TC, and google, and search out those free apps for yourself. If you find some good ones, post a list of them here, so others may benefit. In other words, Give rather than Take.
    ??????

    What is your problem man.
    Read the Post A call for Open Source Development.

    There would be no such thing as Free software if no one created it. That what I trying to start here. For people who want to "first" learn, and help create some of the great free software we all use Today.

    What the Big deal.

    Sorry for Getting Off Topic.

    But if anyone has any good idea, or link Please Post then.

    Thanks
    Last edited by ClarenceCM3; 01/19/2005 at 09:53 AM.
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  4. #4  
    I would like to see some open source projects, as well. We could get as involved as setting up a CVS server or something as simple as sharing ideas and code snippets. I've been wanting to do this for some time now. I have a few ideas and have even posted one of them (with sample code) in the utilities forum.

    Here's another idea: Bluetooth walkie talkies. I've been testing code to accomplish this, but have run into a few snags. I'd like to be able to turn the treo 650 into a walkie talkie/phone using bluetooth. However, with a range of 30 ft, it's not very useful
  5.    #5  
    That Blue tooth idea sound great.

    It seem like you have more knowledge then I do. CVS? What’s that?

    I'm a beginner myself, and I was hoping someone with more knowledge would take charge and start to get things organized.

    I just download the Palm SDK, debugger, and simulator. I’m starting to take the tutorials, and reading through some sample code. But I have Computer Programming Experience, and palm programming seems pretty easy.

    I had some idea also, but most of them are based off of existing Pay Software:
    1.Mp3 Ringtone Manager.
    2.USB drive support
    3.Modem.
    4.A program that can change you palm Network hotsync address to your real IP address "if you were behind a firewall".
    5.A computer based program that would sms/email your ip address "if it were to change"

    To get a project started we first need to see how many people would be willing to participate, then set up a system to support Mass Collaborations, Then vote on a project to Start Developing. “Remembering to provide help and support for Novice programming and those who want to learn”

    I think we could really get some things Accomplish.

    Anyone Else will to help, or have any ideas, or link.

    Thanks
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    It seem like you have more knowledge then I do. CVS? What’s that?
    CVS is a tool for source control, so everyone can modify source code from one central location. I'll look into setting it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    I just download the Palm SDK, debugger, and simulator. I’m starting to take the tutorials, and reading through some sample code. But I have Computer Programming Experience, and palm programming seems pretty easy.
    Yeah, it's not too difficult. There's a slight learning curve involved, but after a few apps it becomes easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    I had some idea also, but most of them are based off of existing Pay Software:
    1.Mp3 Ringtone Manager.
    2.USB drive support
    3.Modem.
    4.A program that can change you palm Network hotsync address to your real IP address "if you were behind a firewall".
    5.A computer based program that would sms/email your ip address "if it were to change"
    Sounds like you have some good ideas, too. Can you elaborate on 4 and 5? I use dynamic dns, so there's no need for me to be alerted of ip changes, but it still sounds interesting. I actually wonder about the reverse. my phone has an ip address, but i'm sure that changes a lot. If I were to run a service on it, I'd like to be able to connect to a dns address for my phone (such as 1235555555.dyndns.org). maybe there's already something like this that i don't know about.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    To get a project started we first need to see how many people would be willing to participate, then set up a system to support Mass Collaborations, Then vote on a project to Start Developing. “Remembering to provide help and support for Novice programming and those who want to learn”
    I'm actually really liking the idea of TWiki. You can collaborate with anyone by editing web pages on the fly. It could be extended for collaborative development as well. Anyone else with TWiki knowledge agree with me?
  7.    #7  
    Guess TC doesn't Like Open Source.

    Well guess I will learn and start Developing myself. expect something soon
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  8. #8  
    TWikis good for dev sites... For a class project on adding certain regression testing to wine, I setup one a few weeks ago, I love it!
    http://www.geekymedia.com

    As for OSS development, great idea.

    But don't take something someone else has done and clone it. First, its improper. Second you're all new to PalmOS (and I'd imagine embedded) C development. Start small with forms, information apps, etc.

    1.Mp3 Ringtone Manager.
    2.USB drive support
    3.Modem.
    4.A program that can change you palm Network hotsync address to your real IP address "if you were behind a firewall".
    5.A computer based program that would sms/email your ip address "if it were to change"
    1. Bad idea. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $its$ $a$ $pretty$ $difficult$ $set$ $of$ $system$ $calls$, $doing$ $a$ $few$ $things$ $wrong$ = $reset$ $palms$, $and$ $you$'$d$ $lose$ $your$ $user$ $base$ ($and$ $energy$) $pretty$ $quickly$.
    2. Better, but still bad. Would you know how to read the technical specs on USB drive protocols?
    3. See above.
    4. Now THIS is a good idea. See below five for some input...
    5. Already done. Everywhere.

    There is already a solution to 4/5. Get a domain at dyndns.org, use one of the free clients ( http://kanasolution.com/ is the new approved one ), have it keep track of your ip address and just use that dynamic address.

    If not, you could take one of the open source dns updates and rig it to send an email/sms instead of notify dyndns. (Or have it ping a page with a perl script that contacts your phone)

    You could intercept the sms then from the phone... but this is a pretty long workaround.

    Point being, learn palmos, then start mucking with treo specific stuff and the protocol. Otherwise, its too easy to get swamped with the swarm of information and give it up. Feel free to email me (check the wiki link for email) if you'd like Wiki/CVS space and/or some help.

    Rizwan Kassim

    p.s. lots of niche groups need particular applications that would be good practice. Judges for Collectable Card Games (like Magic, etc) need a better timer than Bigclock to time rounds; some better way of calculating Chess/CCG swiss rounds than Tourney, etc. By far the most used app on my Treo is called "Electronics" --- its looks like it would have been quite easy to write, but it changes the way I do work.
  9. #9  
    I think initially using this thread as a "learn to program PalmOS/Treo applications is a good idea and let's see where it goes from there. It would be nice if some of the developers in this forum might be willing to write some short tutorials or guides, starting with some basics. I currently have other learning priorities ahead of Palm programming but I'd like to read in such a thread as eventually I'd like to know the issues about application design on mobile devices.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  10.    #10  
    Rizwan
    thank for all the good Pointers.

    But I disagree with some of you comments.

    Most software is developed in parts, with each team working on the part it specializes in. I know alot of people using this Board have Programming knowledge in Some area. We need to find those people, and have them port that Knowledge to Palm.

    Programming is more than just a language, but the ability to solve Problem << "then tranlate them to Palm Code."

    I myself, know C/C++, some Java, and Assembly. From reading the Sample source code"from palmone Developement Site" I think I can easliy Tackle palm programming.
    I think the main thing keeping people from trying to develope palm apps is the beleif that its some how harder then programming a Computer. But a palm is a computer.

    I think enough people of this board can handle any project. The knowledge is out there, All we have to do is look for it.

    It willnot be easy, but it will be a great learning experience. We can Deal with it.

    >>>
    Feel free to email me (check the wiki link for email) if you'd like Wiki/CVS space and/or some help.
    >>>
    I'm going to hold you this.

    thanks
    Clarence
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    Guess TC doesn't Like Open Source.
    I'm not sure if that is accurate. A lot of people work very hard on palm software. The problem is that the platform can do so much, that there is a lot to choose from. I myself had not really bought a lot of software for my Treos till now... but with the 650, there is so much to the possibilities that I find myself buying a lot of nice utils... Are they worth the price? yes. Would it take a lot of money to assemble my perfect software set? you bet... but the thing is, This device is essential to me, so I buy what I need (even if it means waiting a bit for the right tools).

    That's not to say that I haven't gotten burnt by buying seemingly great software that didn't work... oh well, live and learn

    Would it be better if it was all Open Source? Oh yeah, but I don't know if the platform would have gotten as advanced as it has if there was no monetary incentive to the developers.

    Nonetheless, I think now that we have a mature platform (Palm), many OSS titles will come out, just like they are starting to for windows...

    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    Well guess I will learn and start Developing myself. expect something soon
    Looking forward to it!

    Art
    Newton->Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism->Treo 300->Treo 600->Treo 650->Treo 755p->Touch Pro->Palm Pre!
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bioart
    I'm not sure if that is accurate. A lot of people work very hard on palm software. The problem is that the platform can do so much, that there is a lot to choose from. I myself had not really bought a lot of software for my Treos till now... but with the 650, there is so much to the possibilities that I find myself buying a lot of nice utils... Are they worth the price? yes. Would it take a lot of money to assemble my perfect software set? you bet... but the thing is, This device is essential to me, so I buy what I need (even if it means waiting a bit for the right tools).

    That's not to say that I haven't gotten burnt by buying seemingly great software that didn't work... oh well, live and learn Would it be better if it was all Open Source? Oh yeah, but I don't know if the platform would have gotten as advanced as it has if there was no monetary incentive to the developers.

    Nonetheless, I think now that we have a mature platform (Palm), many OSS titles will come out, just like they are starting to for windows...



    Looking forward to it!

    Art
    I understand how you feel, but alot of the most used palm apps are freeware, and someone has to create them. I'm currently reading through the Source Create from ZenPlus. The code has good documentation, and explain alot the stuff going on. You can download it from here
    http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/zenplusforpalmos(r).shtml
    They inlcude the source of a app that include all the basic Functtion of a palm Gui "great learn too". And you can cut and paste alot of code to create alot of simple app.

    Working with regular palm app, and Treo cell phone are totally different. I just wish a developer would release some source for a app create totally for the Treo 600+ line. So we could see some examples of :

    Send: a call to pocktunes for mp3 playback "with messing up the playlist"
    Sending data from the Netlib function through Usb
    Sending and recieving data directly through the USB
    Intercepting Incoming Call, SMS, MMS.
    Intercepting Date Book Alarms.
    etc.

    In regular computer programming other programmer create classes and function, then allow other programmer to use those functions. You can Share functions, and classes without making all of you code Open Source.
    Where are the Class Lib, and Function Lib, for Treo at. Palmone give you some of the basic function, but you have to use them at a lowlevel.

    Quote Originally Posted by bioart
    Would it be better if it was all Open Source? Oh yeah, but I don't know if the platform would have gotten as advanced as it has if there was no monetary incentive to the developers.
    Honestly thats untrue, alot of Developer "who charge" use Open Source Software "and Function and Classes" to create thier programs. If everyone wanted to hide all of there code, we would still be programming in Assembly. EveryLanguage would be patented, and no one would be able to learn.

    We we think of Open Source Soft we think of a totally "Complete" free Peice of Software, but we forget that Open Source functions and Classes have been out of a long time, and you cannot program in any langauge "expect" assembly without the use of those Functions or Classes. ie "stdio.h, iostream.h, palm.h, java.awt etc" What if the creator of those key class refused to allow other to use there code. That the problem we face in Palm, and Treo programming. You have to start from the ground up to create a program. Which make it harder to learn.


    thanks.
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  13. #13  
    The following is a quote from a book that I'm reading. It provides a good definition of what "open source" is. Note that the goal here is for us to cooperatively learn how to produce software for the platform we love. "Free" means free access to the code, not necessarily free "price". I think Clarance's idea would help the Treo community.
    When a program is termed "open source," it means that the program's source code can be read, redistributed, and modified freely. Consequently, any programmer can legally add functionality to the program, fix bugs, and distribute it as desired. Open source does not require that programs be distributed for free, or prevent persons from charging for distribution, but the vast majority of open source software is distributed free of cost.

    The inherent collaborative nature of open source programs allows them to grow and evolve rapidly. Because they are developed to meet the needs of individuals rather than corporate profit motives, open source programs are usually of a higher quality.

    Open source developers are under no market pressure to release unfinished, buggy code. Because open source programs bare their code for all to see, they are usually more secure than closed source programs. Thousands of eyes auditing code can discover security holes and bugs more readily than those of only a privileged few who have that access. Free from the need to establish and maintain market share, they can add in features that a closed source vendor would not. In the last five years, the open source movement has created an alternative for most major software applications.

    Open source programs flourish when an active thriving community supports them. There is usually a hard-core group of altruistic, dedicated developers that pump out the code. The group of core developers takes care of improving the software by adding features and fixing bugs. The virtual community surrounding an open source program is just as important as the developers. The community provides technical support for new users of the software and reports bugs back to the developers.
    Intrusion Detection with Snort
    By Jack Koziol

    Publisher : Que
    Pub Date : May 28, 2003
    ISBN : 1-578-70281-X
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. #14  
    I think the next step might be to identify some easy projects that solve particular problems and try to implement one of them. Any ideas?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15.    #15  
    Bclancy and the previous poster you are absolutly right.

    Maybe we can create a thread asking for people who are interested, and a Poll to vote on what project we can start to create.

    we can have the more experienced user, create a plan, sub divide it, then issue projects to each person "or groups".

    if your interested in starting this for real,or have any good ideas email me "my address is posted"
    Clarence101@sprintpcs.com

    remeber I'm still learning also.
    thanks
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    Maybe we can create a thread asking for people who are interested, and a Poll to vote on what project we can start to create.

    Here's one right off the bat:

    Can we please have an effort to finally hack Piscel viewer so we can have decent pdf support on the Treo for goodness sakes!!!!

    I'm sooo damned annoyed and disgusted by now for the absolutely pathetic support for native pdf. It really is one of the biggest weakness of the Treo and other PalmOne devices and I really wish some one had hacked this a very loooong time ago...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  17.    #17  
    Who interested in learning Palm Programming.
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  18.    #18  
    After Reading through alot of Palm Documentation, and cutting and Paste a lot of Sample Code here My First Program.
    I created the Program using HB++, "and borrowed a lot of source".

    The program is a Simple Backup Utility for your Palm.
    Sorry Documentation is coming.
    Install the program, Run it.

    Make sure you are in the Directory in which you want you files to backup in. Click on Backup here from the Pull down Menu. Do the Same in Reverse for Restores.

    That’s It.
    http://www.middleton.no-ip.org/PalmDEV/backup.prc

    Tell me what you thinks.

    Need Any Help, or Want the Source Goto my Web Site, or Email me.
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  19. #19  
    try this link for a start:


    http://www.palmopensource.com/
  20. #20  
    I like the hacking idea.... Piscel ...just for fun.

    -CK
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