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  1.    #1  
    I was using Mapopolis today to generate a route and it was taking too long to find it, so I decided to reset the device (you can't interrupt Mapopolis in this case). Before I reset it I thought I'll interrupt its search by removing the SD card. However that caused tithe device to produce a continuous stream of error messages. This went on for about a minute and I wasn't able to stop it. So I opened the back cover to reset the device, but I instead just removed the battery. To my amazement, the Treo kept on going with the error messages!!! I did a double take and checked that I had the battery in my other hand, and I did! So, there I was, with a battery-less Treo in one hand (beeping with error messages) and the battery in another!!!

    It then started giving low battery messages among the many error messages. I didn't let it go for too long after that, worrying about what might happen to it and I reset it with the stylus.

    I don't know what the backup power source is. Old model Palm devices have had a capacitor that is charged and whose job was to maintain the memory a bit while you change the AA batteries. However, I don't know that a capacitor could have kept the display going like this did for about 30 seconds until I reset it. It could be some backup rechargeable battery. In any case, this behavior was a very surprising.

    I've always wondered how the database backup process to the NVFS would not lead to corruption if someone dropped the device while using it and the battery came flying out. This answers my question and in hindsight makes a lot of sense.
    Last edited by silverado; 01/17/2005 at 01:27 PM.
  2. #2  
    This is interesting, but not totally unexpected... Typically devices leave you 30 seconds to change the battery...



  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by horsmanp
    This is interesting, but not totally unexpected... Typically devices leave you 30 seconds to change the battery...
    Not quite the same. Actually the 650 was designed to survive a powerless state for an indefinate amount of time.
  4. #4  
    Yes that I was well aware of, but it still makes sense as to not intrupt what your doing when you change the battery, for it not to die right away...



  5. #5  
    Something tells me the error messages are key here. Every time I yank my battery, the device shuts off. My guess is, the state of perpetual error had your treo too busy to notice that the power had been removed, and so it never got around to switching off.

    I'm curious now whether the backup power source -- no doubt a small battery or cap just powerful enough to keep the date and time current -- is a rechargeable battery, a capacitor, or a permanent non-rechargeable battery (as for the BIOS on a PC logic board). I can't imagine a capacitor lasting that long with the display and everything on...
  6.    #6  
    thornrag,

    I agree that the error messages were key, as this never happens under normal circumstances. I think it's a rechargable source of some kind becasue when I put my battery back in and started the device, the current battery charge was way lower than it should have been. I plugged the device in and it showed a low charge for a a while, then it jumped up considerably. My explanation was that it was charging the internal source for a while then switched to charging the removable battery.
  7. #7  
    but its like a computer right...they have that nice little watch battery inside NiCd to keep thinks alive albeit without AC power...and well it uses very little power to keep things running..

    ie what that battery does, is keep the date/time running properly and any other minor proccesses
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by hofo_mofo
    but its like a computer right...they have that nice little watch battery inside NiCd to keep thinks alive albeit without AC power...and well it uses very little power to keep things running..

    ie what that battery does, is keep the date/time running properly and any other minor proccesses
    Yeah, but for it to be powerful enough to keep the device going for more than 30 seconds is quite unusual. These batteries are typically just capable of keeping time and preserving volatile memory for a bit, which requires far less power than the display staying on and the ARM processor going at full speed.
  9. #9  
    You know funny this should come up. Last night I looked over at my Treo, I use it as an alarm clock in the morning, and it was hung on the Palm screen. I opened it up and took the battery out as I did not want to mess with the stylus expecting it to reset immediately. It did not. In fact it stayed on until I took out the stylus to reset it. It was not plugged in so I agree it must have some alternate form of power.

    Or I was just too drowsy to remember anything correctly.

    -Ray-
  10. #10  
    It must have a super capacitor to exhibit this behavior. Power does not come out of vacuum. But all this speculation can be put to rest if PalmOne, and other manufacturers as well, put out technical specs and data sheets for their products.

    Wait, I forgot, we're in 2005 where the product life cycle is a few months....not worth it to spend the money on publications
  11.    #11  
    I could easily repeat the experiment and see how long this would go... but I don't want to expose this internal battery (most likely) to this abuse that it is not designed for.
  12. #12  
    So let me get this straight. The principal problem people are having with the Treo 650 is a result of the non volatile memory system which now turns out may not be needed as there is a backup capacitor? Jeepers.
  13. #13  
    I bet he had the power adapter plugged in and forgot. It should still work even with the battery out in this case.
  14. #14  
    I don't know how GSM technology works, but I know that Sprint's signal contains time/date information. So if GSM technology was similar, there really wouldn't be a need for an internal power source to keep up with those matters like a computer does.

    Does anyone else know if GSM carriers inbed that information in their signal?
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by farzonalmaneih
    I bet he had the power adapter plugged in and forgot. It should still work even with the battery out in this case.
    It is possible, but not likely, as far is "he" remembers.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterFuhrman
    I don't know how GSM technology works, but I know that Sprint's signal contains time/date information. So if GSM technology was similar, there really wouldn't be a need for an internal power source to keep up with those matters like a computer does.

    Does anyone else know if GSM carriers inbed that information in their signal?
    The Sprint Treo 650 doesn't lose it's time if you take the battery out, then put it back in without turning the radio on. So the fact that there is some backup power source cannot be disputed. The question is what it is and how powerful.
  17. #17  
    I would guess you had it plugged in some how.
  18. #18  
    Probably plugged into the PC... hehehe.
  19. #19  
    I took my battery out b4 without a reset. The phone simply gave me a warning tone and then put a countdown on the screen. I replaced the battery before the countdown was up and have had no problems. I thought this was normal but just tried to reproduce and it turned off the phone...strange. I did get the countdown timer BEFORE I reflashed my rom... what about you guys?
  20. #20  
    Mapopolis is very pleased to have provided the basis for this discovery. The next version of the viewer, I hear, is politely going to request, "Please insert the Mapoplis card," when it detects that the card has been removed...

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