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  1. #61  
    Just buy their $16 accessory.

    http://images.apple.com/macmini/imag...7-20050111.jpg

    Has S-video and composite video for use with TVs and recievers.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Just buy their $16 accessory.

    Has S-video and composite video for use with TVs and recievers.
    Umm, nope, that's not what I meant. I meant a true media center Mac, with the whole software suite integrated into it, with remote control, the way you would expect from Apple. Of course I can build a Windows Box on my own that does it all today for cheaper, but it would be a great deal for Applefans and neophytes to have this option, and it would surely sell briskly...
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Umm, nope, that's not what I meant. I meant a true media center Mac, with the whole software suite integrated into it, with remote control, the way you would expect from Apple. Of course I can build a Windows Box on my own that does it all today for cheaper, but it would be a great deal for Applefans and neophytes to have this option, and it would surely sell briskly...
    This was already tried 10 years ago when Apple was headed by Michael Spindler. It was called "Mac TV" and stayed on the market for about 2 - 3 months. It did not go over well because people just don't like to sit in their office chair to watch TV or a video. You can't kick back with a beer or cuddle up to your loved one. It doesn't work and Apple knows that.

    There are options though that keep you connected to your Mac for access to your videos in that Movie Folder of yours, or your MP3s in your Music folder (or even iTMS songs), or the pictures in your Photos folder, or even stream recordings from your Mac onto your TV or stereo.

    http://www.elgato.com/images/eyetv/e...image_tiny.gif
    EyeTV 200 or EyeTV 500
    Look, they even come with a remote to use with your TV... while sitting on the couch!


    Or maybe you want to watch, record and edit free, over-the-air HDTV and SDTV content on your Mac (including ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, UPN, and WB). The recorded shows can also be exported into different video formats for editing in iMovie, iMovie HD, iDVD, Final Cut Express HD, Final Cut Pro or DVD Studio Pro.
    Last edited by archie; 01/11/2005 at 03:08 PM.
  4. #64  
    Can you tell us more about the iPhone?

    Thanks
    Ed
    Visor Deluxe, Prism, Visorphone, Treo 270, Treo 600, Treo 650, and am eagerly waiting for the next generation Treo...but wait...is that the iPhone????
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    This was already tried 10 years ago when Apple was headed by Michael Spindler. It was called "Mac TV" and stayed on the market for about 2 - 3 months. It did not go over well because people just don't like to sit in their office chair to watch TV or a video. You can't kick back with a beer or cuddle up to your loved one. It doesn't work and Apple knows that.
    Archie, no offense but I don't think you understand what I am talking about when I say Media Center. The MacTV was a typical Spindler-era misfire, a product that made sense to maybe 1% of the already slim Mac user base - supposedly "college students" if I remember their reasoning back then.

    In any case, I just got back from MacWorld, and I saw the eyeTV today as well as the HD version. Very cool, very nicely done, looked very polished and clever. It's still an 3rd party product though, and that means limited success in the marketplace, but it also means it's fortunately not riddled with Apple control-freak limitations.
    I am sure it will be cannibalized by Apple sooner or later, like most good ideas, and that's what's really going to drive sales for such a product. I was hoping the Mac mini was going to be that box... it would be a potentially killer product. But I guess they will want to do that under the iPod brand and have iTunes control it all, no way Apple is gonna get something like that out of their control.
    Last edited by NSiNSiNSi; 01/11/2005 at 09:03 PM.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    This was already tried 10 years ago when Apple was headed by Michael Spindler. It was called "Mac TV" and stayed on the market for about 2 - 3 months. It did not go over well because people just don't like to sit in their office chair to watch TV or a video. You can't kick back with a beer or cuddle up to your loved one. It doesn't work and Apple knows that.
    Things are so much different now. With huge hard drives and faster processors, you can actually record video and with increased networking capabilities, you can stream them to other places in your house (all things you couldn't do with that BlackMac). The minimac isn't the hub of that system, but it would work as a spoke (just playing things back recorded elsewhere).
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Things are so much different now.
    Yeah, the MacTV wasn't even a PVR, it was just a black performa with a TV tuner and an RF remote tacked on, nothing more.
  8.    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo Rat
    Can you tell us more about the iPhone?

    Thanks
    Sorry no iPhone. Just a Motorola phone that runs a version of iTunes.
    <body bgcolor="#ffffff">
    <p><font size="-2" color="#4684ff" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"><b>imageone</b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"> &#x2022; current - <b>PowerBook G4 - Mac OS X - white iPod video 60GB - Treo 650 - 700p (Sprint)<br>
    </b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular">retired - Visor Deluxe - Visor Prism - Kyocera 6035 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Blackberry 7250</font></p>
    </body>
  9. #69  
    I'm a little bummed. I was really hoping for an iPhone/Newton release. That would at least have stopped me from waiting for a GSM 650.
  10. #70  
    Newton? Unfortunately Newton is gone, gone gone. It was a brilliant device, still is, but it's gone.

    The iPhone won't be happening before 9 to 12 months, is my guess... but I think it definitely will happen at some point.
  11. #71  
    Apple knows not to try and make the Mac the hub for media centers (also known as the entertainment center). That is because there is already a hub for entertainment that everyone has. It consists of a tv or projection screen, a receiver or amp and preamp, tuners of all sorts, cable receivers and dishes, cassette decks, VCRs, DVD players, turntables and game machines. This stuff has been around and growing for over 50 years and as so, the way we use it has become so intrinsically part of our psyche. It is hard to change the way everyone lives and uses this stuff over night.

    If you step back and look at a couple things, you’ll notice that over the last 5 years Apple has not introduced any completely new ground-breaking product. Instead they take existing things and improve them so they are easy to use (resulting in simple products). Secondly, the Mac is a hub – but not an “entertainment center” type hub. I think it is important to realize that we as a society have and continue to make these two separate. We build entire rooms around both (ex. offices/dens for the computer and living rooms/ family rooms for the entertainment centers). Admittedly, over the years, these 2 separate hubs (the desktop computer and the entertainment center) have grown and are now starting to creep into each other’s space.

    Also, if you notice, Apple has developed products perhaps facilitating this expansion, but also to accommodate. Like Firewire, Airport Express and now the Mac mini.

    The wonderful thing about the Mac mini is that it can be another spoke of the entertainment center by acting as a game machine with USB game controllers, or it can be a DVD player or even a PVR. You can move it from room to room easily or rely on Rendezvous for networking. You can even use it as an adjunct to you other Mac in many ways, like as a network server or even a secondary processor to speed up your existing Mac using Apple’s newly released XGrid. Or get several of them, stack them up and increase your power even more – again using XGrid.

    Flexibility is the key here, BUT perhaps even more importantly to the mass market is accessibility. They are easy to obtain and incorporate to use however you want. And yes you can use them as an entertainment hub should you so choose. An entertainment hub that is far more powerful, far less expensive, far more flexible and far less restrictive than Microsoft’s.

    That in my mind IS a killer product.

    They are not forcing anything on us. Use it as you see fit.
  12. #72  
    Wel, I think you are ignoring the last 5 to 8 years of product trends and failures. What you are describing is a set top box, except full of Apple buzzwords - sounds a lot like Pippin and Sprockets. You give me the impression of the typical Mac centric guy who thinks of everything in terms of how Apple deals with it, making it sound like only Rendesvouz could take care of a computer that moves throughout your house, or that the Mac mini is a credible "game machine".

    Regarding your concept of media centers, are you familiar with a product named TiVo? Actually I am not even sure what you are implying. You sound exactly like what old fashioned CEOs were saying 5 years ago - computers and living rooms can't mix because we tried it with a crappy product like the Nuon or the CD-I or WebTV or [take your pick] and - surprise! - it didn't work.
    I think you are mixing up concepts and using old ideas to explain to yourself things that fundamentally changed a while ago now. Lots of people are now thinking in terms of using RSS as a replacement for TiVo so they can stream their downloaded TV shows from their desktops to their TVs. I do it at home today, you can do it with a Mac, a PC or Linux. I sti back in my living room with my remote and watch recordings playing from my PC, and it beats the hell out of a VCR or PVR. Your idea that the entertainment center in the living room has no connection to your computers sounds like a joke to me, because there are so many people who have already linked them forever, like myself. However, something tells me that when Apple does come out with the "iBase" or whatever the decide to name their Media Center, you will be somewhere explaining to others how Apple always knew this was the greatest idea ever.

    So, in case this isn't clear, imagine this: $600 Mac mini with A/V in/out with "iMedia", an iTunes enabled media center. Being a loyal Mac fan, you buy music and videos from iTMS, and can also record live TV with TiVo-like functionality - interactive TV grid, smart recording, etc. It comes with a bluetooth remote, and automatically syncs to your desktop Mac's iTunes/iMedia over WiFi (sorry "Airport Express" lol). It can play and rip DVDs with DRM (officially to keep Hollywood off of Jobs' back, but really so Apple can control what you do with it), and of course rip and play CDs to iTunes. Everything you rip and record gets caalogues into a combination iPhoto/iTunes/iMedia app, and you can initiate viewing or listening of any type of media from this program with your remote, burn DVDs, etc., all of it running under OS X, so you can do other things if you want to, maybe run an emulator, or web browse, or whatever (forget real video games).

    Not bad for something that's not that much more expensive than a TiVo, no?
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Wel, I think you are ignoring the last 5 to 8 years of product trends and failures. What you are describing is a set top box, except full of Apple buzzwords - sounds a lot like Pippin and Sprockets. You give me the impression of the typical Mac centric guy who thinks of everything in terms of how Apple deals with it, making it sound like only Rendesvouz could take care of a computer that moves throughout your house
    Rendezvous IS the only technology that makes it easy to move and connect within a network... but that is OK, Apple makes Rendezvous for Windows too.

    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Regarding your concept of media centers, are you familiar with a product named TiVo? Actually I am not even sure what you are implying. You sound exactly like what old fashioned CEOs were saying 5 years ago - computers and living rooms can't mix because we tried it with a crappy product like the Nuon or the CD-I or WebTV or [take your pick] and - surprise! - it didn't work.
    I think you are mixing up concepts and using old ideas to explain to yourself things that fundamentally changed a while ago now.
    Sorry, I left TiVo off the list of entertainment hub spokes – along with probably 9000 other items.

    I'm confused though, if you look at the definition of an entertainment center so differently, why don't you just buy Microsoft's Media Center – which it seems is what you recognize and like and possibly really want?!?!


    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Lots of people are now thinking in terms of using RSS as a replacement for TiVo so they can stream their downloaded TV shows from their desktops to their TVs. I do it at home today, you can do it with a Mac, a PC or Linux. I sti back in my living room with my remote and watch recordings playing from my PC, and it beats the hell out of a VCR or PVR. Your idea that the entertainment center in the living room has no connection to your computers sounds like a joke to me
    This is not what I said. If you reread my post you'll find that I said these 2 areas are growing and expanding into each. The growth and the merging really exploded when Apple invented Firewire 6 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    However, something tells me that when Apple does come out with the "iBase" or whatever the decide to name their Media Center, you will be somewhere explaining to others how Apple always knew this was the greatest idea ever.

    So, in case this isn't clear, imagine this: $600 Mac mini with A/V in/out with "iMedia", an iTunes enabled media center. Being a loyal Mac fan, you buy music and videos from iTMS, and can also record live TV with TiVo-like functionality - interactive TV grid, smart recording, etc. It comes with a bluetooth remote, and automatically syncs to your desktop Mac's iTunes/iMedia over WiFi (sorry "Airport Express" lol). It can play and rip DVDs with DRM (officially to keep Hollywood off of Jobs' back, but really so Apple can control what you do with it), and of course rip and play CDs to iTunes. Everything you rip and record gets caalogues into a combination iPhoto/iTunes/iMedia app, and you can initiate viewing or listening of any type of media from this program with your remote, burn DVDs, etc., all of it running under OS X, so you can do other things if you want to, maybe run an emulator, or web browse, or whatever (forget real video games).

    Not bad for something that's not that much more expensive than a TiVo, no?
    Why do we have to "imagine" your scenerio. You can take $100 of your price tag right now and just substitute iFlicks for iMedia nd you basically got what you are looking for – maybe add an EyeTV device if you want.

    Apple can't afford to take risks and shove products down our throat. They have to remain flexible and actually act on the demands of the customer. Unlike Microsoft, who can afford to throw money away in an effort to create a market, Apple has to respond to the people who make the market.

    Here I am trying to explain to people that Apple knows what we want. Please note that I am not "explaining to others how Apple always knew this was the greatest idea ever". They simply respond to a mass market.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Rendezvous IS the only technology that makes it easy to move and connect within a network... but that is OK, Apple makes Rendezvous for Windows too.
    I'm confused, if you look at the definition of an entertainment center so differently, why don't you just buy Microsoft's Media Center – which it seems is what you recognize and like and possibly really want?!?!
    Sigh. Nevermind man. You're looking for a Mac holy war, I'm not. My personal opinion is that you have no idea what you're taking about and you're just reciting Apple marketing doctrine, sorry.

    And since you used the typical tactic of trying to pin me down as a Microsoftie as an answer to an argument that started with me simply wishing Apple had come out with a different product... I have owned several Macs since 1985, and have 3 Macs right here, one running OS9 and two (a dual G5 and a 15' pb) running OS X 10.3... I also use sveral PCs though. Not that this will make any difference to you of course, you just see me as not being compeltely aligned with Apple, so I must be an evil Microsoft drone. Don't know what else to say, have fun.
  15. sbono13's Avatar
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    #75  
    I agree... an apple MediaCenter in the Mac Mini form factor would be killer. You could perhaps build one around the Mini with enough thrid party software/hardware, but I don't know if you could get around the limitation of the lack of a digital audio out on the current version... This means no Dolby Digital for DVDs or HDTV (unless the external HDTV tuner had DD out and you bypassed the Mini). That goes to the problem with mass appeal of Windows MediaCenters. I have one and I love it, but it's expensive, and the reason is that it has to be a high end PC, with high end graphics and sound capabilities. It would be folly to try to build a MediaCenter on a low end Mac, no matter how cool it looked. Sell a G5 Mac Mini for say, $900, and then we'd be talking...
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by sbono13
    I agree... an apple MediaCenter in the Mac Mini form factor would be killer. You could perhaps build one around the Mini with enough thrid party software/hardware, but I don't know if you could get around the limitation of the lack of a digital audio out on the current version... This means no Dolby Digital for DVDs or HDTV (unless the external HDTV tuner had DD out and you bypassed the Mini). That goes to the problem with mass appeal of Windows MediaCenters. I have one and I love it, but it's expensive, and the reason is that it has to be a high end PC, with high end graphics and sound capabilities. It would be folly to try to build a MediaCenter on a low end Mac, no matter how cool it looked. Sell a G5 Mac Mini for say, $900, and then we'd be talking...
    Yep..well, I can tell you for certain that the current Mac mini doesn't have the necessary horsepower to do any sort of HDTV recording, and HD playback is doubtful. It's basically an iBook folded over, without a screen, so that way you can figure out what kind of performance you could get from it. I talked to the EyeTV guys for a while today and the dual G5 they had there was the only thing they could safely say would not drop any frames when recording HD, because the box doesn't include encoding hardware. It's basically an HD tuner with a really cool recording/scheduling/grid interface. So, a mini is completely out of the question for HDTV. I am sure you could possibly get one of the many Audio-over-Firewire to get surround, but I stood behind one of the guys demoing one such offering, and the poor guy was sweating for 30 minutes trying to get it to work, and it just wouldn't... I would blame this on OS X's current lack of widepsread support for true surround sound, but I am not certain if that is the case, to be honest.
  17. #77  
    Were any of you at MWSF today? I was there in the afternoon.

    The BlackBerry company was there and their both was crowded. Good exposure for them. When I saw that, I said, PalmOne should be here.
  18. #78  
    I was...
  19. #79  
    Amazing how they packed everything the South Hall. I saw mostly everything, but Apple. Very crowded over there. However, I did manage to see that mini-Mac.
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    I was...
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by specimen38
    Amazing how they packed everything the South Hall. I saw mostly everything, but Apple. Very crowded over there. However, I did manage to see that mini-Mac.
    Well, I wouldn't call it amazing, I would call it "troubling" actually. They fit everything in the South hall becaise of how small the show is this year. Even smaller than last year's, which was the smallest ot date. And even though the show is smaller, the Apple booth is the largest I've ever seen (and I go to all these shows because, well, it's my job). I was talking to another show veteran I met at the show and he thinks there can't possibly be another Macworld is they keep shrinking like this. I disagree.

    Lots of iPod, or iPod-related stuff, which is actually the most interesting to me personally. Some nice sofware but nothing really groundbreaking, just the same people with new versions, but overall, in comparison to thel last 2 or 3 Macworlds, this is the one where OS X has looked the best as a platform. All the apps from all companies look solid, and very identifiably OSX-like.

    Tiger is looking just incredible - check out the spotlight and automator demos around the apple booth, they're really incredible. Dashboard is also looking great, very clever and well though out collection of gizmos, even better than Konfabulator itself.

    Also, make sure to check the icombi booth, it's a small japanese company with a humble booth near the back, they make a line of Bluetooth audio headphones/headsets. These will be my next Bluetooth purchase when they come out in March. Check them out and see.
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