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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    ...
    The TREO 650 is a nice telephone, but it has problems. Some people are willing to live with those problems, and some are capable of finding ways to work around those problems, and for what seems to be a minority, the problems don't affect their particular unit. Can we all agree on that?
    ...
    So in short, accept nothing, complain about everything regardless if it's good or not.

    Gotcha

    I think the minority is having these problems affect thier units, it just happens to be a loud minoirty on a couple message boards. Only those having problems speak up. ONly those having problems and looking to tweak go online and look for message boards. Further only those having problems, or are looking or tweak, or doing research or are just plain obsessed actually post on these things.

    Bottom line: If these problems were so robust, they would go back to the stores in droves and Palm would be scrambling.

    Buy one, see for yourself if it's good or not and then you can see for yourself what is hype and what is real. You get 30 days to take it back.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by DigglerD
    So in short, accept nothing, complain about everything regardless if it's good or not.
    Diggy, Diggy, Diggy... There you go again...

    Read what I said. Never said accept nothing, complain about everything, and you know it.

    I think it's a minority of users that haven't had any problem at all. Most everybody had one or more of the usual problems, including bolluxed migration from the TREO 600 due to bad instructions, sound problems, crashes, etc. You seem to be one of the few that hasn't had any of this, and that is wonderful. It has also been said, essentially, that lots of users aren't having any problems because they aren't sophisticated enough to know that they are having problems. That don't mean there ain't a problem!

    I'll repeat myself again.... If you have had some of the problems, and you work around them or ignore them and proclaim the TREO 650 perfect, PalmOne is gonna point to you and say, "see, we don't have no steenkin' problems!" DigglerD, you yourself were very responsive to my mention of trouble with Yahoo? No doubt you guys have ten million users (close?) and only .01% ever complains like I did. But you took me seriously and suggested possible answers. Why do you think it should be different with PalmOne and the TREO 650?
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgauss
    I was having a great time until I installed Graffiti Anywhere and had to do a hard reset to stop the continuous soft resets that would not stop.

    Needs more robustness.
    I'm not a cheerleader for Palm by any means (read my posts, above), but this isn't a Palm issue, except to the extent that the Palms OS never has trapped errors very well. This is a software incompatibility on the part of GA, and the Graffiti Anywhere vendor needs to address it.

    If every operating system vendor tried to ensure 100% backwards compatibility with every application, we'd never have any OS progress.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    I like to keep it simple, so here is my digested version of everything we got so far....

    The TREO 650 is a nice telephone, but it has problems. Some people are willing to live with those problems, and some are capable of finding ways to work around those problems, and for what seems to be a minority, the problems don't affect their particular unit. Can we all agree on that?

    OK. I joined up on TreoCentral.com after some of the big hullaballoo when the thing was first released, but I looked at some of the stuff posted from that time. There was a small faction that said (kinda loudly, if you can be loud on a message board) that PalmOne ought to fix these problems. Based on reports from CES, the PalmOne people DO look at the stuff posted here. So, if everyone just says, "well, the thing works for me, LOVE THE SCREEN, there are some problems, but I can live with them/ignore them/use Shadowmite stuff to work around them", guess which part they are gonna listen to, and which part they won't? If the majority of the people take the complacent attitude, than PalmOne is just gonna fix a few things and not the rest. I will bet you $5 that the memory stuff, for example, would never, ever, ever have been addressed at all if there hadn't been that big e-mail barrage to Peter Skillman (since their own people said it didn't affect anybody but a very few of their poweruser employees).

    I think it comes down to this: if you express complete and total satisfaction, nothing is gonna change. If those who already have the TREO 650 will say, "yes, great machine, but PalmOne NEEDS to address the issues that have been raised", then I think PalmOne might take notice. You really have everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing so, right?


    I completely agree. If anyone is having a problem, big or small, with the Treo or any product, either take it back to the store and/or contact the manufacturer and voice your experience <--which is very important. I cringe when I read about how people having big or small problems are just dealing with it and give the: "Treo 650 is great" mantra. They seem to have unconditional loyalty, or they don't want to be viewed as a "whiner" or maybe they are even stockholders of P1. This kind of complacency is potentially destructive to product evolution. Yes. The Treo 650 is great, but for how long? To quote Marcus Adolfsson in his recent Commentary on the Treo 650 competitor, Benq P50: "Good first attempt BenQ, but a Treo killer you got not. However, most of the issues will probably be resolved in the 2nd generation hardware and with the release of Windows Mobile 2005, so palmOne has to keep innovating to keep a step ahead."

    My bottom-line: Just because there are problems with a product doesn't mean its a POS, however it does mean it needs to be fixed. Everyone who just deals with the issues, without contacting Palmone, are essentially killing the Treo without even knowing it. In my opinion, which is based on actually using the Treo 650, the best attributes of the Treo 650 is its size, one handed design, backlight kb and it's sharper, brighter screen; all nice esthetics. However the technology behind the nice kb and screen need to be upgraded and operational problems for every-type user need to be fixed.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo_monkey
    For those considering the Treo 650, it's not a tenth as bad as some on this board would have you believe. I've been using my Treo 650 intensively over the last 5 days. So far, there is ONLY ONE legitimate bug I can agree with --- the 3 second delay when clicking a contact to dial. And even that is really just a display annoyance that I can live with until Palm1 provides a fix. It doesn't actually take any longer to make a call than other phones.

    It seems that the problems others are having is caused by:

    * Upgrading rather than reinstalling apps and contacts. If you have an older Treo, export your contacts and other info from Palm Desktop to a safe location, then remove the Palm software and Palm user files completely from your computer. And make sure any older software you plan to use is compatible with the 650.

    I exported my contacts and other info from my old Treo to a backup location on my computer, and then I imported them and did a fresh install of apps for the 650 using the included CD. So far I've had no memory problems, not a single crash, no sluggishness. P1 should publicly recommend doing a fresh install.

    * Dissatisfaction with Sprint customer service. I don't really understand this one...how is it the Treo 650's fault if Sprint has lousy CS? My experience with Sprint has been great so far. If you hate Sprint for whatever reason, then just wait until other carriers start selling the 650.

    * Calls cutting out, bad call quality, etc. This also has to do with Sprint and where you live...I've had no problem with dropped connections or voice quality in my area. Don't blame the Treo b/c you can't get good coverage. Wait for another carrier that has better coverage in your area.

    * Hotsync or memory card backups not working. I've synced probably a dozen times using missing sync on my mac and hotsync on my PC laptop...no issues here. My guess is people having hotsync problems upgraded from a 600 rather than do a fresh install. Try wiping everything and starting fresh, and be wary of third party apps that may cause problems.

    * Complaints about lack of support. Although I haven't had a reason to contact support yet, I can understand the frustration. However, this is a UNIVERSAL problem in the computer industry. Once you start installing third party apps and hardware, it's outside of P1 or any one company's control to ensure everything works properly. P1 built a great device and OS, but you have to take care installing everything, one at at time, and when you begin to have a problem, you know it was due to the last thing you installed. Just like a computer. Nobody can fully support the complexity in todays computers, there are just too many variables. And a single call to support probably erases any profits they got from the sale of the device. Tell me of one manufacturer that offers better support (well, aside from Apple).

    * Low rez camera. So what? Do you want a two inch optical lense sticking out the back? The camera's a nice to have; nobody buys a 650 for the camera. And it's a major improvement compared to the dreadful camera in the T600.

    I also read a post that PPC is from Microsoft and therefore it will work better with Outlook, etc. Everything I've heard points the other way. Documents To Go, which comes for FREE with the 650, duplicates Microsoft apps like Word and Excel more faithfully than MS's own PPC offerings. And Sprint's BizConnect syncs with Outlook extremely well with push email...it took all of about 5 minutes to download and set it up. That MS apps will work better on a MS platform is the same silly argument that used to be made against the Mac, and now MS Office on the Mac blows away the Windows version.

    Besides, try to find any favorable review of a PPC combination device similar to the Treo. They all have MAJOR shortcomings.

    So what else am I missing? Did I just happen to get my Treo from a freshly patched batch, or are people really overstating the problems they're having?

    Sorry for ranting, but I just read the Pos article from the noob who couldn't hotsync and thought I'd start a more positive thread. How about asking for help rather than calling a device we're all interested in a Pos?
    Sorry, but I think this unrealistic spin is what's overblown.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    Diggy, Diggy, Diggy... There you go again...

    Read what I said. Never said accept nothing, complain about everything, and you know it.

    I think it's a minority of users that haven't had any problem at all. Most everybody had one or more of the usual problems, including bolluxed migration from the TREO 600 due to bad instructions, sound problems, crashes, etc. You seem to be one of the few that hasn't had any of this, and that is wonderful. It has also been said, essentially, that lots of users aren't having any problems because they aren't sophisticated enough to know that they are having problems. That don't mean there ain't a problem!

    I'll repeat myself again.... If you have had some of the problems, and you work around them or ignore them and proclaim the TREO 650 perfect, PalmOne is gonna point to you and say, "see, we don't have no steenkin' problems!" DigglerD, you yourself were very responsive to my mention of trouble with Yahoo? No doubt you guys have ten million users (close?) and only .01% ever complains like I did. But you took me seriously and suggested possible answers. Why do you think it should be different with PalmOne and the TREO 650?
    Exactly
  7. #87  
    No response, Diggy? Guess that means you agree with me, huh? ;-)
  8. #88  
    Remember:

    News.....bad, negative, or rumored travels faster than good news. I, for one, have not had any problems with my 650.

    IGO
    GIVE DEBBIE THE CHIMP.....GIVE DEBBIE THE CHIMP!!!
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    No response, Diggy? Guess that means you agree with me, huh? ;-)
    Since you ask...

    I agree that high praises of aninferior product begets more inferior products. In this case, I just don't think the 650 is that inferior product. Sure it's got its issues and the weak bluetooth support has got me mighty pissed right now BUT, I got to hand it to Palm for the excelllent product they did release. It has been in my experience that almost every new gadget goes through the "that's all you got? this is a POS" and I've been tinkering for years. The bottom line it people are almost never happy and LOVE to jump on the complain train when they see it coming, even if thier problems are simply a placebo from someone else's. That's the nature of our society, look at the media, look at class-action litigation, look at the overwhelming CYA crap killing positive action on the hill (everyone wants to make a difference but is afraid of the tumbling snowball if any little thing goes wrong)

    I'm willing to bet that the cry of the disenchanted and ACTUAL defective units that everyone on this forum claims to exist is far far less porportional to the market. Only people with problems look up boards, only enthusiasts that pick through the Palms with a scope return so it would seem reasonable that you have chicken little running through all the boards yelling that the sky is falling.

    In addition, I'm sure they, engineering especially, are aware of the problems but certain aspects of the org, accounting, and PRPRPR $stop$ $a$ $genuine$ $effort$ $of$ $recognizing$ $and$ $rectifying$ $these$ $problems$. $At$ $my$ $place$ $we$ $call$ $them$ &$quot$;$blue$-$shirts$&$quot$; ($the$ $biz$-$dev$ $guys$ $always$ $wear$ $blue$ $buton$-$ups$ $and$ $khackis$) $and$ $we$ $think$ $they$ $are$ $the$ $scorn$ $of$ $all$ $earth$ $because$ $they$ $short$ $projects$ $and$ think they know everything BUT they do know money and more about making it and that can often mean shorting a great product.
  10. JJ623's Avatar
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    #90  
    Just read the first line of "Treo_monkey" and had to make a comment about how disgusted I am with the poor engineering behind the 650. I don't have time to list all the bugs and problems and lack of support but I can tell you that I am heading to the Sprint store again today to obtain my 4th replacement. For the second time, the headset jack has malfunctioned.

    To summarize, if you are very light user, don't mind that certain things don't work or a poor design of the operating system, the 650 may work for you. On the other hand, if you really want this to work and you depend upon it, look elsewhere.
    Thanks,

    JJ623
  11. #91  
    Hi JJ!

    Just an opposing view. . . . . I love my Treo 650 and use it for all it's functions: PDA, phone, email, Internet, camera, music. . . . . . . Would not be without it. NO problems here.

    Cheers, Perry.
  12. #92  
    Not a single problem. Perfectly stable.
  13. #93  
    Yup, very happy, has replaced my cellphone, beeper, message pad, mp3 player, and my PDA with one item. And it works nearly flawlessly. No complaint here, would not trade it in for another product.
    -- Josh
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by steinbej
    Yup, very happy, has replaced my cellphone, beeper, message pad, mp3 player, and my PDA with one item. And it works nearly flawlessly. No complaint here, would not trade it in for another product.
    -- Josh
    Ditto to the above. Any instability problems are generally attributable to 3rd party software conflicts which is hard to blame on the handheld manufacturer
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden
    Hi JJ!

    Just an opposing view. . . . . I love my Treo 650 and use it for all it's functions: PDA, phone, email, Internet, camera, music. . . . . . . Would not be without it. NO problems here.

    Cheers, Perry.
    My Treo is the best phone than I had. Zero problems here. It's Awesome. I have everything in one machine.
  16. #96  
    Sorry to hear about those having problems with their 650s, but I am "eatin" well off of mine as I do commerce and trade via phone/email and DTG. I just wrote 3 episodes for an upcoming project using DTG and transferring it to my Powerbook for light editing.
    There are problems no doubt as with any phone/pda but the real question is can you get through the work day with this device acting as your slave/facillitator? The answer for me is yes. If it were no you would never see me in this forum. I'd be looking for a better device and keeping it moving. No need to pummel people with my disatisfaction with the phone. I would find a forum that would assist me if I had an issue outside of PalmOne's tech monastery and bam! Issues resolved. (Bright people in the house here) Snatch that Treo out the complainers' hands and see what'll happen to ya!
    "All I need is four G's
    God
    Gold
    Guns
    &Grub!
  17. #97  
    OMG. It cracks me up when I read the "my 650 is perfect and have never had any problems" posts. Try taking out of the box and turning it on
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Joe
    OMG. It cracks me up when I read the "my 650 is perfect and have never had any problems" posts. Try taking out of the box and turning it on
    I think folk lose sight of what the nature and cause of a complaint is:. You have a problem with your device, ok, fine. Go to Palm's website for support and if that doesn't cut it you may return it or if you are adventurous you would scan the discussion boards to get a 2nd opinion and some advice. That is the most basic, fundamental route one takes to getting at the problem. Anything else is tantamount to trolling101. If we can't help you here with your problem, return the sucker, get a moto razor and a beeper and leave us alone. Please!!!
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Joe
    OMG. It cracks me up when I read the "my 650 is perfect and have never had any problems" posts. Try taking out of the box and turning it on
    I find it hard to believe that anyone with a triple-digit IQ could have any problems with their 650. It's really not that complicated.
  20. #100  
    I love mine couldn't go a day without. Possibly, Single best purchase I ever made. There are problems here and there but overall I don't have many complaints. I can tell you this if you haven't done so already get the latest dbcache tool and rlock both are free. Since installing these I can't remember my last reset. I used to get about 6 resets a day.
    Everex Freestyle - Casio E-105 - Palm Vx - Treo 90 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Treo 650 - Treo 700p -Centro
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