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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by davetheone

    The lag time when dialing a call from call log or from contacts is definitley annoying. I find myself tapping it again and as soon as the call starts it hangs up because it took so long for the palm os to process the command so if you tap it two or three times you'll see the dialing screen come up and then just disappear because the hang up command is in the same place as dial.

    I would agree, this is the single biggest issue for me and was almost enough to make me take it back the 1st day. However, I now know about it and ave adjusted. It would be nice if they fixed it in an update.
  2. #62  
    I have read this, and other threads making comments on the 650, with much interest and a hint of a smirk on my face.

    I have had a long histroy with Palm, going back to my first Palm III, the IIIx, on to pre-ordering the first visor (in ice, thank you very much ), on to a Visor Prism, then making the jump to PPC where I had an iPaq and then an HP Jornada. After that I abandoned PDA's for a while because I quit using the HP...so many bells and whistles I found it too cumbersome to enter and find info.

    At any rate, I say all of this to say, nothing has changed! I have been out of the PDA world for a year or so, the Palm world for about 3 or 4 years, and when I come back everyone is beefing about the latest model and what a disappointment it is. It has flaws! How could <insert big evil company of your choice here> DARE release something like this?!



    It has happened with every new release I have participated in.

    Yes, the 650 has issues. For me they are not even remotely deal killers. I really like the 650, and take comfort in the fact that most, if not all of the hiccups so far, are fixable via software improvements. (Returning to Palm, BTW, has been like coming home after a long, hard trip...it feels comfortable and right and good after a brief fling with the sexier but baggage-burdened PPC.)

    Disclaimer: Of all the folks that complain, I will say that I do have sympathy for developer that must bear the brunt of the hiccups.

    I think something that we lose sight of in these forums is how ignorant most users of these devices are. I have helped dozens and dozens of friends pick out and buy PDA's, then help them set them up. I don't know of ANY that have downloaded 3rd party software unless I expressly recommended it and sent them a link. Almost every PDA user I know uses it as is out of the box, and never changes a thing. For these folks most of the "issues" that we worry about in these forums are not even on their radar screens.

    Don't get me wrong, I like these discussions! I think the beefing helps find issues and make improvements. I think it is just funny that not only does the Palm OS feel like a return home, but so does the bickering and whining about the new model.

    Happy (no, make that thrilled) with the 650,

    Tyler (who did not have to worry about upgrading and may have avoided a few things because of that.)
    Last edited by tyler; 01/09/2005 at 08:43 PM.
  3. #63  
    Yes, you are right the new flash memory system has created alot of incompatilities with the Tungsten T5 and Treo 650. You are right that it has broken apps that aren't hacks, but this is a cost of moving forward. I think most of the major developers are working on fixing this but it does take time.

    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    ...
    The problem is that changes were made which rendered a lot of the TREO 600 software incompatible, and according to some of the software types, they haven't made it easy to fix the problems. I wasn't really thinking about hacks and that sort of thing.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by tyler
    I think something that we lose sight of in these forums is how ignorant most users of these devices are. I have helped dozens and dozens of friends pick out and buy PDA's, then help them set them up. I don't know of ANY that have downloaded 3rd party software unless I expressly recommended it and sent them a link. Almost every PDA user I know uses it as is out of the box, and never changes a thing. For these folks most of the "issues" that we worry about in these forums are not even on their radar screens.
    This is the exact point I have been trying to get across and I applaud you for saying it much better than I could.
  5. #65  
    Well, OK, then let me ask you guys to do a simple personal survey for me. Ask those for whom you have set up TREO's whether or not they come to TreoCentral.com. Personally, I think the level of user sophistication might just be higher than you good people are suggesting. I am not personally what you would consider a power-user, but I do know about loading applications and such, and obviously, I found this website!
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by tyler
    I have read this, and other threads making comments on the 650, with much interest and a hint of a smirk on my face.

    Yes, the 650 has issues. For me they are not even remotely deal killers. I really like the 650, and take comfort in the fact that most, if not all of the hiccups so far, are fixable via software improvements.
    .)
    I don't think anyone expects the 650 to be perfect. I think what creates a lot of this angst is that, in too many cases, Palm broke things that worked great in the 600. Things like sound quality, dialing in the phone app, functionality of the PIM apps, size of the picture that shows up when receiving a call, the connector (the new one may offer more functionality, but it appears to be very cheaply built),and more.

    As for "fixable via software improvement," based on previous P1 history I wouldn't hold my breath. Palm has a history of fixing only the most egregious bugs--things that truely make the device unworkable. Based on history, and on comments made by P1 staff at CES, I think the only software fixes we'll see are something to address the memory issue and, hopefully, something to address the sound quality issue. Problems with the PIM apps, dialing delays, re-sync issues, etc. are not likely to be adressed. So, if software is going to fix them, that means 3rd party apps. But, as you say below....

    Quote Originally Posted by tyler
    I think something that we lose sight of in these forums is how ignorant most users of these devices are. I have helped dozens and dozens of friends pick out and buy PDA's, then help them set them up. I don't know of ANY that have downloaded 3rd party software unless I expressly recommended it and sent them a link. Almost every PDA user I know uses it as is out of the box, and never changes a thing. For these folks most of the "issues" that we worry about in these forums are not even on their radar screens.
    If most people won't buy 3rd party software, that means they'll have to live with the issues we've found, because they won't have 3rd party fixes available. And since they probably also don't access forums like Treocentral, they won't know how to address things like resync resets and Blazer resets. They won't know there's a fix for the sound quality problem. They won't know that upgrading from a previous Palm device by doing a sync (which has always worked before) is the kiss of death.

    Are the problems overblown? That's an individual judgement, and dependent on how many of the problems each individual encounters. But pretending everything is fine, and the only problems that exist are trivial, belies the very real problems many people have encountered.

    I don't expect the 650 to be perfect. I do expect that each generation of phone from Palm will be a step forward, without moving backwards in any respect. Palm keeps emphasizing the Treo is a phone first. If that's true, there's no excuse for releasing a product with sound quality worse than the most basic free phones available. There's no excuse for releasing a product so poorly tested that Palm didn't even know updating via a sync would kill the phone, that bluetooth doesn't work adequately with many of the headsets on the market, and so on.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    The 7100t is T-Mobile, the 650 Sprint. Was your 600 T-Mobile or Sprint?

    I have not had a chance to see the 7100t in person. How you rate the screen and web browsing with it versus the 650?
    I can't answer the question against the 650 but the screen is outstanding compared to the 600. Browsing is pretty good natively (not as fast as the 600). It was great with Reqwireless until T-Mobile shut-down the needed ports for Blackberry users (along with T-zones users as well). That issue is currently being pushed by the Blackberry community (lots of threads on this on Howards and Blackberryforums.com).

    The main difference is that the phone voice quality is great (Bluetooth or non-bluetooth) and given that it is GSM it can be used very easily globally including push email.

    The 7100T is rock solid (I've dropped it on concrete and tile floors without issue) and never crashes.

    IMO, it is the best bridge device until the converged market matures over the next year (it is cheap and has all of the major functions needed for business).
  8. #68  
    Obviously, all of our thoughts about the level of sophistication of other Palm users are conjecture . It is based on anecdotal evidence, and as such, is subject to huge variance based on the demographic we live in. If I were an IT-related student at college, the level of sophistication of those around me would be a LOT higher than those currently around me. So certainly, there are varying perspectives on this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    Well, OK, then let me ask you guys to do a simple personal survey for me. Ask those for whom you have set up TREO's whether or not they come to TreoCentral.com. Personally, I think the level of user sophistication might just be higher than you good people are suggesting. I am not personally what you would consider a power-user, but I do know about loading applications and such, and obviously, I found this website!
    I can say with some certainty that I know of no one that has been to this site. I can even say that of the 75+ close acquaintances I know that have or have had a PDA in the last few years, probably not more than 5 of them has ever been to a discussion board of ANY sort, much less PDA related. Several of the folks I know that use PDA's were issued them by their company. They have no idea that Treocentral.com and the like exists, and most wouldn't care if they did know. If they have a question, the thought of looking it up online doesn't cross their mind...they call me.

    FWIW, I live in a town of 100,000 in Texas. (Hometown of a different GWB actually... ) It is a town that is composed mostly of professionals in the oil industry. The folks I am talking about are engineers and businessmen that are far from idiots. It just so happens that PDA's are tools for them along the lines of a hammer...not something that intrigues them to the point of discussing them on the Internet. It is just there to make their day more organized, not consume their time tweaking.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    If most people won't buy 3rd party software, that means they'll have to live with the issues we've found, because they won't have 3rd party fixes available. And since they probably also don't access forums like Treocentral, they won't know how to address things like resync resets and Blazer resets. They won't know there's a fix for the sound quality problem.
    True, but the thing is, most of them don't really know there IS a problem. My boss has had a Treo 650 since they came out...he pre-ordered, and he had NO IDEA until I got mine (a few days ago) all that was "wrong" with his Treo. He noticed the breaking up of the calls sometimes, and it was annoying when it occurred, but heck it's a cell phone. It never crossed his mind that it was the phone's fault. Cell calls can be so hit or miss at times anyway.

    I am not trying to defend Palm or anyone else in this issue. No doubt a better job could have been done. I am just suggesting that the world we in this forum live in is not the same one that most PDA users live in. Palm knows that, and they are not making these things for us. There are not enough of us to keep them afloat. If Palm really were dependent upon us for their success, wouldn't they have died a long time ago?

    I was probably unclear with my last post, but my point was mostly just to just say: gosh, nothing changes. People are still saying about Palm, in the words of Napoleon D.: IDIOTS!

    I'm not saying they are or aren't. I am saying I like my Treo, warts and all.

    Tyler
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by tyler
    At any rate, I say all of this to say, nothing has changed! I have been out of the PDA world for a year or so, the Palm world for about 3 or 4 years, and when I come back everyone is beefing about the latest model and what a disappointment it is. It has flaws! How could <insert big evil company of your choice here> DARE release something like this?!
    Tyler: sorry, but I consider that a flawed argument. Just because something hasn't changed doesn't mean it's alright. Sounds like alcoholics who, when confronted about their problem, say "oh but I have been drinking this way all my life!". (I am not implying you are anything like an alcoholic, I am just using an example to make a point - my apologies in advance if you find that offensive).

    I find your comment particularly ironic given the fact that Palm was a mostly terrible, terrible company (albeit one with an insanely great original product) until the PPC monster woke them up and made them realize that they couldn't keep charging premium prices for insignificant upgrades and horribly underpowered PDAs. Remember why Handspring came into being and how they became successful.

    --------------------------

    There are many shades of gray in these discussions. I don't agree with the people that say "the 650 is a POS!!", I definitely won't go that far, mainly because it's not that simple, but I do think to 650 is a mess, and I (we) have very good, documented reasons to say that. Overall though there are things I definitely love about the 650 and that makes me even more frustrated at how the crippled such an astounding device by being a dysfunctional company...

    The problem with most of these cheerleading threads is that they rarely make a valid point. Reading any of them reminds me of political discussions - little honest arguments, lots of empy cheerleading and attacks on the "opposite" side. Just a newsflash guys: no one here is *against* the 650, that is a completely ridiculous notion, implying that some of us are just making these problems up as if we had a gadget variant of Munchausen syndrome. Insinuating that people who don't own one can't comment on it is equally insane. It's a PRODUCT, and it has ISSUES that need to be ACKNOWLEDGED before they can be RESOLVED. I don't know how this concept escapes so many.

    If someone wants to profess their love for their 650, that's great, go right ahead, but don't try to hide its problems under the rug, it doesn't help anyone.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by tyler
    He noticed the breaking up of the calls sometimes, and it was annoying when it occurred, but heck it's a cell phone. It never crossed his mind that it was the phone's fault. Cell calls can be so hit or miss at times anyway.
    See, that's a great point right there. I would say that kind of customer is the actual average, not us. For that kind of anecdotal evidence I look to my wife and family. I let them use my phone, and since they are mostly non-technical they consider a lot of the things on my phone some sort of mystery. But they DO find a lot of these things annoying, especially the delays and the white screen when dialing. At the same time they don't really realize what a great screen it has, to them it's just another color screen.
    So, Palm sometimes seems to do things for us, the gadget-centric people, and some other things for them, the simple-use people. Problem, is, they seem to mix and match some of these ideas in a way that doesn't make complete sense: they try to make the buttons behave in a simpler manner and they end up being more complicated to understand. They attenpt to make the dialer more attractive and end up making it more confusing, full of glitches and slow.

    The only areas on the 650 that truly seem to have progressed in this area are the camera/camcorder apps and the Bluetooth setup. It all makes sense, is stable, and works the way you would expect it to, without major glitches or delays. But then again, these things are not the main areas of he device.

    I just wish PalmOne/Sprint would shut me up with a ROM patch that fixed the main issues, nothing would make me happier.
  11. #71  
    The valid point of the "cheerleading" threads is to counter the "POS" threads. I think for those that already own the device, neither is necessary, but for those thinking of buying there needs to be some balance.

    I would disagree with calling the 650 a "mess". I don't even recall anyone disagreeing that there are issues which should be fixed. Its in the degree. To some these are issues which should be fixed, to some these seem to issues that make the product hopelessly flawed.

    I think threads like this are valuable to newcomers here. When the 600 was released there were similar screams about how the 600 was completely broken compared to the 270/300. Now we just have the latest round. Just because some of us think the issues are in the balance minor compared to the benefits doesn't make us blind to them. Every device (including the Treo 600 and all other Palm and PPC devices I've ever used) I've ever seen has flaws. As the thread title says, some of think that they are overblown, not that they don't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    ...
    The problem with most of these cheerleading threads is that they rarely make a valid point. Reading any of them reminds me of political discussions - little honest arguments, lots of empy cheerleading and attacks on the "opposite" side. Just a newsflash guys: no one here is *against* the 650, that is a completely ridiculous notion, implying that some of us are just making these problems up as if we had a gadget variant of Munchausen syndrome. Insinuating that people who don't own one can't comment on it is equally insane. It's a PRODUCT, and it has ISSUES that need to be ACKNOWLEDGED before they can be RESOLVED. I don't know how this concept escapes so many.
    ...
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  12. LunkHead's Avatar
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    The 7100t is T-Mobile, the 650 Sprint. Was your 600 T-Mobile or Sprint?

    I have not had a chance to see the 7100t in person. How you rate the screen and web browsing with it versus the 650?
    My 600 and 650 were both with Sprint... Web browsing is much better with the 600/650.... The WAP browser on the 7100 is usable at best but it works for my needs.... The screen on the 7100 is good, better than the 600 but not as nice as the 650....
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    The valid point of the "cheerleading" threads is to counter the "POS" threads. I think for those that already own the device, neither is necessary, but for those thinking of buying there needs to be some balance.
    Well, I guess we have a difference of opinion. I don't think there's such a thing as a need to counter threads. It's not a competition for anyone's votes. To me, the real objective is to make it known to the powers that be that we are noticing these things and we want them fixed.

    Also, I was here when the 600 came out and I was among the first to get one, and in my experience the complaints were far less in quantity and gravity than the ones about the 650. To this day, the people I know personally with 600's are just in love with their phone. The people I know with 650's (4 as of today, 2 of them instigated by yours truly) have a love/hate relationship with it. That tells me something about user experience with both phones.
  14. mgauss's Avatar
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    #74  
    I was having a great time until I installed Graffiti Anywhere and had to do a hard reset to stop the continuous soft resets that would not stop.

    Needs more robustness.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo_monkey
    I called you a noob for calling the treo a pos rather than asking for help with your problem. Sorry that I offended.
    Sorry for conforming to your expectations about how things should be done around here. I'm pretty sure the only help I need can only come from palmone in the form of a ROM update.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo_monkey
    My post was based completely on personal experience with a real, working Treo 650. How is that "pulling out fo my a.$$"?
    Oh, B.S. You don't have any personal experience with my 650 or the issues it has, you don't know how much experience this "noob" has with Palms,.... I could go on, but you don't get it and I'm not going to bother explaining further.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo_monkey
    Trying to uncover the truth is not an apologist parade. Somehow I feel your apology is noted with sarcasm. I'll accept it anyway.
    The "truth" is that some people are having problems with their 650, some are not. What's to uncover?

    Sarcasm was indeed there, but I'm pretty sure there was no apology as there was nothing for me to apologize for.
  16. #76  
    I am also very happy with my 650. Only two complaints I have are the delay when dialing from contacts, which is not very hard to get used to after you have used the device for a while...and the "P" key problem. About the P problem, I am trying to debate whether it is worth it or not to go through all the trouble of getting a replacement. I can live with the P key, although I would rather have it fixed.

    Aside from those two issues, I love the Treo 650.

    Rock
    Sprint Treo 650

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  17. #77  
    I like to keep it simple, so here is my digested version of everything we got so far....

    The TREO 650 is a nice telephone, but it has problems. Some people are willing to live with those problems, and some are capable of finding ways to work around those problems, and for what seems to be a minority, the problems don't affect their particular unit. Can we all agree on that?

    OK. I joined up on TreoCentral.com after some of the big hullaballoo when the thing was first released, but I looked at some of the stuff posted from that time. There was a small faction that said (kinda loudly, if you can be loud on a message board) that PalmOne ought to fix these problems. Based on reports from CES, the PalmOne people DO look at the stuff posted here. So, if everyone just says, "well, the thing works for me, LOVE THE SCREEN, there are some problems, but I can live with them/ignore them/use Shadowmite stuff to work around them", guess which part they are gonna listen to, and which part they won't? If the majority of the people take the complacent attitude, than PalmOne is just gonna fix a few things and not the rest. I will bet you $5 that the memory stuff, for example, would never, ever, ever have been addressed at all if there hadn't been that big e-mail barrage to Peter Skillman (since their own people said it didn't affect anybody but a very few of their poweruser employees).

    I think it comes down to this: if you express complete and total satisfaction, nothing is gonna change. If those who already have the TREO 650 will say, "yes, great machine, but PalmOne NEEDS to address the issues that have been raised", then I think PalmOne might take notice. You really have everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing so, right?
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Tyler: sorry, but I consider that a flawed argument. Just because something hasn't changed doesn't mean it's alright. Sounds like alcoholics who, when confronted about their problem, say "oh but I have been drinking this way all my life!". (I am not implying you are anything like an alcoholic, I am just using an example to make a point - my apologies in advance if you find that offensive).
    Somehow I missed this post last night.

    I am not offended. I don't think you understand me though. I am not arguing anything other than everyone is still whining. I am not saying anything about the guilt or innocence of Palm in the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    I find your comment particularly ironic given the fact that Palm was a mostly terrible, terrible company (albeit one with an insanely great original product) until the PPC monster woke them up and made them realize that they couldn't keep charging premium prices for insignificant upgrades and horribly underpowered PDAs. Remember why Handspring came into being and how they became successful.
    Again, I think you understood me to be arguing that Palm is a great company. I am not arguing that. My guess is actually that Palm buying Handspring will kill the Treo after a few interations.

    What I don't think is that they have killed it with the 650.

    Tyler
  19. #79  
    Tyler, welcome back to the Palm world. I, too, enjoy my Treo 650, and thanks to Lunkhead, my wife will soon enjoy hers as well.

    As for Palmone buying Handspring and killing Treos after a few models, I am actually a bit more optimistic than you. It now looks like the former Handspring executives are firmly in charge of the new Palmone. P1 has cut back its budget on the traditional PDA devices and focus more of its resources on the smartphone. With Hawkins and Colligan running the wireless side of business, I actually think P1's future is quite bright.

    Just my $0.02
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    It now looks like the former Handspring executives are firmly in charge of the new Palmone. P1 has cut back its budget on the traditional PDA devices and focus more of its resources on the smartphone. With Hawkins and Colligan running the wireless side of business, I actually think P1's future is quite bright.
    I did not know that, and that certainly raises my level of optimism!

    Thanks.

    Tyler
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