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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzi
    Yeah, thought I picked up on a trend earlier. Those who own the 650 are generally, very impressed. Those who don't own one hate it. Not sure how they put it through the paces, but apparently there's a way I'm not familiar with.
    This is simply a complete fabrication of a statement. This is not a presidential election folks, why state completely made up conclusions such as "Those who don't own one hate it" ? Are you impying that the documented issues on the 650 are the result of... envy ? And you are also implying the the lengthy discussions about a wide variety of problems by 650 owners such as myself are fantasies?

    Sigh.
  2. #42  
    It's definitley funny reading through threads like this. They do alot to a person psychologically. Even though there are major issues with the treo 650 they seem to be alot worse when you read through all the threads and realize that so many other problems you would never have known about exist.
    There are real issues with this phone that are not overblown:

    Bluetooth; how on earth could they sell and promote their own headset made specifically for the phone (jabra bt250) and it barely works well within 3 feet. This really upsets me. I can't find an hbh60 anywhere. Besides that; the store only gave me a store credit and they never have the sony hbh60 in stock.

    The lag time when dialing a call from call log or from contacts is definitley annoying. I find myself tapping it again and as soon as the call starts it hangs up because it took so long for the palm os to process the command so if you tap it two or three times you'll see the dialing screen come up and then just disappear because the hang up command is in the same place as dial.

    Multi-tasking
    If you're surfing the web all calls go straight to voicemail.

    When I played my mp3's on realplayer in the car (used 3.50 cent adapter from radioshack) Realplayer just stopped and I heard the person saying hello; I didn't have a bluetooth headset yet so there was no reason for that to have happened. Sometimes there's people u just don't want to speak to and that ticked me off.

    I don't think any of these issues are overblown; they definitley shouldn't be Overlooked!
  3. #43  
    I actually see little point in worrying over the problems in general or philosophically. There are only so many facts to throw around here. Does the Treo 650 have problems? Yes. Does that mean it's a POS? Question of opinion, not fact. My opinion is that I love mine. I'm not overlooking the problems, I am experiencing them, but I still love my phone. Different people have different levels of tolerance to problems and issues with the products they buy. I'm pretty forgiving when the pluses outweigh the minuses in my own opinion. Other people use different weights and measurements than me though. There are no facts that we can use to evaluate who's weights and measurements are correct.

    So, why worry about it? Just do what you're going to do and let others do what they're going to do. Hate it (yourself), return it (yourself), love it (yourself), praise it (yourself), criticize it (yourself)...but I wouldnt' fuss over which of those things other people do. 'Cause how it is going to affect you (yourself) anyway what the next person does about the Treo 650?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo_monkey
    For those considering the Treo 650, it's not a tenth as bad as some on this board would have you believe. I've been using my Treo 650 intensively over the last 5 days. So far, there is ONLY ONE legitimate bug I can agree with....

    Sorry for ranting, but I just read the Pos article from the noob who couldn't hotsync and thought I'd start a more positive thread. How about asking for help rather than calling a device we're all interested in a Pos?
    FYI, this "noob" who started the POS thread is not a noob. You make alot of assumptions that you're apparently pulling out of your a.$$ because you can't possibly have the information to back them up. You dogmatically assume that just because YOU aren't having the problems complained about, they must not exist, or are "overblown." Whether you "agree" with the problems or not is irrelevant... and probably nobody really cares. I'm sure using your 650 "intensively over the last 5 days" qualifies you for some serious respect and probably lecture tours, but some people are having legitimate problems with their 650s that are not caused by user error, astronomic expectations or "noobs," whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. Even some of us who have had their 650s for almost 50 WHOLE DAYS!

    If you'd bothered to read farther down the thread you'd see that I explained my meltdown and - omigod - said something slightly positive about the 650. You probably missed it in all the negative drivel flooding this forum to the exclusion of EVERYTHING positive, but if you look just a little harder you'll see one or two positive comments about the POS... um, I mean the 650.

    It's a great device with some great features and some serious flaws. Sorry if we're raining on your feel-good, apologist parage. No, really.
  5.    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by NDPTAL85
    The above post only demonstrates that humans possess a remarkable ability for self-delusion.

    How anyone can gloss over the glaring issues with the Treo 650 is beyond me. Maybe it arises from the shame at having spent $600 for a device that doesn't do everything its supposed to do correctly. (shrugs).
    I appreciate the personal put-down. I have to disagree though; I don't think I'm deluding myself. It just happens that I'm not experiencing most of the problems stated by others.

    I don't feel shame at purchasing the Treo...in fact I still have 8 days to return it, but for me the benefits outweigh the flaws I've experienced.


    Quote Originally Posted by NDPTAL85
    The very first item you state, upgrading instead of reinstalling apps ought to be an obvious issue.
    I agree this shouldn't be required. P1 should have done more testing to ensure users of older Treos or Palms can migrate seamlessly. But I also know, from personal experience, that upgrades of any kind greatly increase your chance of having problems, and you're better off reinstalling applications. I guess this one just doesn't seem that big to me having upgrade/replaced Windows systems before.


    Quote Originally Posted by NDPTAL85
    The third item is call quality and here again you are wrong.
    I beleive this has a lot to do with perception. I haven't noticed the problem...I've asked some people and left myself some voicemails to test it and I couldn't tell it from my old T270 phone. I've been on two hour conference calls and haven't had a problem. The one variable I haven't tested is noisy environments -- all my calls have been from home or the office where there isn't any background noise. Maybe my phone, being new, is already fixed? I wish there was an easy way to tell. I'm considering trying the patch from faisal just to see if there's a noticeable difference.
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by NDPTAL85
    Obviously there are many people pleased with their Treo 650. Maybe they're newcomers to PDA's or Palms in general so they don't have much data to import. Most Smartphone users or technology users in general will never know all of the features their device has, how to use them or when to use them so they're far less likely to notice things that are missing or not working right. But this phone is far from perfect even though naturally it can never be so. I don't know however what you are trying to accomplish by making it seem like the issues with this phone have been overblown. To the contrary they have not been stated loudly enough. Too many reviews fail to mention the serious problems with this phone leading people to buy something that may not be right for them. That is wrong, and to suggest otherwise is wrong as well.
    Don't get me wrong...the basic point I was trying to get across is that I'm not running into most of the problems that others are...and my post was in part to weed out which ones are *real* problems from which ones are *user* problems. I would never suggest that everyone should be complacent and just accept *real* problems that P1 should be fixing.

    At the same time, some of the posts suggest the Treo is a complete disaster, and that it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    This is a very nice platform but here are some of the high profile problems that need to be fixed:
    1. Sound quality problems. Documented and acknowledged by P1
    2. BlueTooth Headset volume problems
    3. Memory corruption. Random loss of data due to crashes where NVFS data didn't get flushed. Many people loosing their saved preferences for example.
    4. Serious problems in the API's that cause well running programs to crash. Mainly due to notification handling.
    5. Semaphore issues causing the phone application functions to not function properly when processing API calls from notification routines.
    6. Battery drain problems related to applications that interface with the phone's API.
    I think Jeff had a pretty good summary of the high-priority issues that need to be fixed. I'm not seeing most of these problems (I'm not using bluetooth yet, didn't upgrade old applications, and have ample memory left since I'm using an sd card), but I admit these seem like real problems based on the number of posts.
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by davetheone
    Multi-tasking
    If you're surfing the web all calls go straight to voicemail.
    Isn't this the case with all smartphones?
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by otterman
    FYI, this "noob" who started the POS thread is not a noob. You make alot of assumptions that you're apparently pulling out of your a.$$ because you can't possibly have the information to back them up.
    I called you a noob for calling the treo a pos rather than asking for help with your problem. Sorry that I offended.

    My post was based completely on personal experience with a real, working Treo 650. How is that "pulling out fo my a.$$"?

    Quote Originally Posted by otterman
    It's a great device with some great features and some serious flaws. Sorry if we're raining on your feel-good, apologist parage. No, really.
    Trying to uncover the truth is not an apologist parade. Somehow I feel your apology is noted with sarcasm. I'll accept it anyway.
  9. LunkHead's Avatar
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    #49  
    I had a 600 before getting the 650... I had the 650 for about a month and while I was not getting reboots, the phone quality stunk... This has nothing to do with signal strength... I would have 4 bars and still had problems understanding others and everyone said I sound like I was in a wind tunnel... The Shadowmite patch did help a bit but sound quality was still lacking.... If it wants to be functional as a smart phone one would thing the phone part should actually work....

    I have since tossed in the towel on the 650 and went with a BlackBerry 7100T.... Having owned a 600, a 650 and now a 7100 I rate the 7100 leaps and bounds above the 650 for phone quality.... the 600 beats the 650 for phone quality... IMHO the ONLY reason to get a 650 is for the better screen.... But in doing so you must trade off phone quality....

    P1 missed the boat with me and has left a sour taste for the Treo line in my mouth.... BlackBerry has a new fan in me... Will I go back to a Treo when/if the problems are fixed...? I don't know... I originally thought that I would but the BlackBerry has really impressed.... The BlackBerry works exactly for what it was intended and works very well.....

    Just my 2 cents having owned a 600 for about a year, a 650 for a month, and a BlackBerry for a few weeks now....
  10. #50  
    No, I'm not saying you can't post if you don't have one. However, some of the very negative posts seem to be from those that don't have one yet but are getting very worked up over the issues. Those I don't think are fair because they see only one side of the issue, complaints, and are amplying those. Without having one, it's much harder to see the positive.

    I would also say the Treo 600 IS much more stable, no question. But it also has had the benefit of at least two firmware upgrades and in some cases isn't as big a technology leap as the 650 (flash memory for example). I suspect in a few months the 650 will have most issues resolved except for the lack of memory.

    As for addressing the issues, I have no doubt they are working on them (any company would be). But it took several months for the first firmware release for the 600 to appear (if you ignore the unofficial firmware releases that leaked out first).

    And for the record, I have never "laughed" at anyone. I disagree with them blaming some issues on P1 that are third party ones. Any third party software that directly takes over hardware whether it's grapping buttons, or putting hacks in during startup is at risk on a new hardware design. These sorts of things can't be blamed on P1 and it's not unreasonable to expect the developer to fix it themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    In the post above, you are basically saying that if you don't have a TREO 650, you shouldn't post anything, though you seem to really be saying don't post anything negative about the TREO 650; all positive comments are welcome. Now, is that really fair? Don't discount everyone else's ability to reason and draw conclusions from facts presented here.

    You have been one of the really vocal positive commenters here, and that has encouraged me that the TREO 650 might not be a "POS" as someone put it after all. But some of the things you have said in support of the machine make me worry some... First, in the above post, you talked about how if you load too many things in memory, well, of course its gonna crash. Well, my TREO 600 WON'T LET ME load too much, so I don't have crashes. Don't you have to agree that this is a big error in programming that even allows you to load too much, let alone the fact that the thing crashes if you do? Huh? In some other post, you laugh at the people who criticise PalmOne for blaming other software companies for the crashes. Well, read Jeff's post above. Here, you have one of the big time Palm OS experts, probably knows it better than you do, but he says they made it just about impossible to reprogram for the TREO 650. But, I guess that's the developer's fault, not that of PalmOne. Right.

    For the moment, the TREO 600 seems to be a heck of a lot more stable, runs a lot of the old Palm OS software, unlike its unruly new sibling, has more accessible memory, etc. There's your better option. Oh, but it just doesn't have that WONDERFUL SCREEN. Sorry.

    Ignore everything I just said. I don't have my TREO 650 yet. You can bet PalmOne will ignore it too, as I still would like to buy the darn thing..... I sure wish they would address these issues, though.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo_monkey
    Isn't this the case with all smartphones?
    Yes, as long as you're using a 1xRTT or EV-DO network. You can't be actively using the data side and receive a call.
  12. #52  
    The 7100t is T-Mobile, the 650 Sprint. Was your 600 T-Mobile or Sprint?

    I have not had a chance to see the 7100t in person. How you rate the screen and web browsing with it versus the 650?

    Quote Originally Posted by LunkHead
    ...

    I have since tossed in the towel on the 650 and went with a BlackBerry 7100T.... Having owned a 600, a 650 and now a 7100 I rate the 7100 leaps and bounds above the 650 for phone quality.... the 600 beats the 650 for phone quality... IMHO the ONLY reason to get a 650 is for the better screen.... But in doing so you must trade off phone quality....

    ....
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  13. #53  
    Actually, this is technically the same with GSM/GPRS also. The difference is that GPRS seems to "release" the data connection quicker so it's more likely the call will go through instead of to voicemail.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob
    Yes, as long as you're using a 1xRTT or EV-DO network. You can't be actively using the data side and receive a call.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  14. #54  
    I always think threads like these are amusing - filled with blanket statements, personal attacks...etc. Though I have some quibbles with my 650, they're very minor. I am not new to Palm or to smartphones (I had the 600, and the Sidekick before that), and I would probably be called a "power user" (I routinely use it for MMPlayer video, pTunes music, accessing my desktop remotely...etc.).

    I haven't had any concerns about memory (I currently have 15 MB free thanks to ZLauncher), sound quality, or Bluetooth volume.

    All in all, I love it.
  15. #55  
    I upgraded fresh and then re-installed software. NO changeover from Treo 600- just contacts and datbeook (which I ended up clearing because of memory as I had 4 years in there).

    Anyway, I don't know what you "no problem" guys are running but maybe you aren't a power user.

    I've had dozens and dozens of problems. My 650 is dirt compared to my 600.

    I've experienced almost EVERY bug that has been listed in the forum and some new ones...

    I love the TREO system, I think it's by far the best out there. However, I'm a Handspring guy as I NEVER had issues with their hardware or support. Every since the new PALM got involved it's been a wreck. There is definitely some serious software bugs as well as some shoddy hardware issues.

    Saying the complaints are overblown is ludicrous. I SHOULD NOT pay $600 for a phone that is crippled compared to my 600.
  16. #56  
    I wonder if there are some production quality issues with the 650 a la the 600? My 600 was solid solid solid, as is my 650, and I'm a pretty heavy user. I, like zorro869 installed everything from scratch on the 650 and have virtually no problems at all. Obviously there are people out there that are having major issues with the 650, but at the same time there are those, like myself, that aren't having issues.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo_monkey
    Isn't this the case with all smartphones?
    Interesting; today I was websurfing and my phone call came in; when I answered the call; phone mode took over and I was no longer on the web. This is a little better as my call didn't go straight into voicemail like it normally does.

    Also; the sound quality issue is very very strange; when I call landline; there is no issue; everyone can hear me fine. My wife was in the laundromat and had a terrible connection; I was at full strength yet she was hearing my voice digitally stutter (words cutting in and out) I heard her fine but on speakerphone she couldn't hear a full sentence; I switch from speakerphone to regular call mode and she was able to hear me.
    This is bizzare; this doesn't happen when I call a landline and use the speakerphone. This only happens when i call someone with a very low signal on their end; I can hear them fine but they say i sound like crap when i'm using speaker. BTW it was a t-mobile I was calling.
    No I won't be giving the treo up anytime soon. I was doing an openhouse today (real estate) and my customer wanted to know how much his mortgage would be with 140k down leaving 600k to mortgage over 30 yrs. I don't have one of those Real Estate financial calc programs yet and the financial calculator the treo has built in doesn't allow me to quickly calculate mortgages for 15 or 30 yrs along with interest insurance costs and taxes, but I did have mortgagecalc.com saved as a bookmark on the treo. I got my customer his figures based on different ammounts he would consider mortgaging and of course he asked about the treo afterward. Offer accepted by owner! Customer stood talking to me another 15 mins about the treo.
    The cool factor and usability of this phone is incredible. I didn't mind the shortcomings at all realizing how powerful a tool this is to me. I would like the sound qual issue to be resolved as well as the multi-tasking; talking to owner while cust is making offer and being able to surf that mortgagecalc website for the figures would be key; owners like to know how much prospective buyers are putting down (down payment) so having numbers for both parties is important. I'm definitley going to invest in one of those real estate calculator/apps that palm one has on the software section of the website; this would allow me to negotiate and crunch numbers at the same time giving me the illusion of multitasking. The calculator built into the treo does work while i'm on the phone and I would imagine that the dedicated Real Estate Calc/App would as well.
    A few shortcomings but
    Lots of potential here!
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    No, I'm not saying you can't post if you don't have one. However, some of the very negative posts seem to be from those that don't have one yet but are getting very worked up over the issues. Those I don't think are fair because they see only one side of the issue, complaints, and are amplying those. Without having one, it's much harder to see the positive.

    I would also say the Treo 600 IS much more stable, no question. But it also has had the benefit of at least two firmware upgrades and in some cases isn't as big a technology leap as the 650 (flash memory for example). I suspect in a few months the 650 will have most issues resolved except for the lack of memory.

    As for addressing the issues, I have no doubt they are working on them (any company would be). But it took several months for the first firmware release for the 600 to appear (if you ignore the unofficial firmware releases that leaked out first).

    And for the record, I have never "laughed" at anyone. I disagree with them blaming some issues on P1 that are third party ones. Any third party software that directly takes over hardware whether it's grapping buttons, or putting hacks in during startup is at risk on a new hardware design. These sorts of things can't be blamed on P1 and it's not unreasonable to expect the developer to fix it themselves.

    Thank you for a calm, very well-reasoned reply. This is the sort of dialog we should all be having. It is too easy for some of us (including me) to get overly excited about some of this stuff.

    Your statement about software was:

    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    .......It seems like the majority of the threads are complaining any possible issue (I love the ones that's it's palmOne's fault with old software being incompatible), and anyone who says anything positive is unjustly defending palmOne.......

    The problem is that changes were made which rendered a lot of the TREO 600 software incompatible, and according to some of the software types, they haven't made it easy to fix the problems. I wasn't really thinking about hacks and that sort of thing.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    I agree! It seems like the majority of the threads are complaining any possible issue (I love the ones that's it's palmOne's fault with old software being incompatible), and anyone who says anything positive is unjustly defending palmOne.

    If the Treo 650 was really this bad, why on earth would anyone buy one and keep it? This isn't to say it's bug free but it's really a wonderful device and in general I think palmOne did a better job on it than on the 600.

    EXACTLY
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    Sir (?Ma'am???), I don't yet have my GSM TREO 650; I hope to get one some day, if they ever get released.
    Just classic...

    You are the one who posts the most about how Palm messed up with the 650 and you don't even have one?!?!?!?!

    I've seen you in three other threads now bashing the 650 and it's all hearsay. I think that is in very poor taste and simply unfair. How can you claim that problems that are debatable exist if you have never even experienced them. In the C.E.S. thread you lambasted me about thtis problem and that problem that I said I have yet to see but it would seem as if we both have yet to see them.

    I think this post is EXACTLY what this thread is about. The supposed problems of the 650 are being amplified by a crowd of people tied to thier keyboards that don't even own the damn things.

    It's akin to saying, although I have never tried them, I don't like Cherios because they taste like chicken. And when someone that has actually had them says they don't, you pick an argument and say well Joe, Billy and Bob said they do so you're wrong.

    Ahhh way too funny.
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