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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by JudBaird
    I have to wonder about Palm's market share. I am a lone user of a Treo 600 in a BlackBerry firm. (I even had to pay for my own Goodlink license to do so!) Yet, my firm has decided to not only switch over to the Treo, but to bypass the 600 entirely and go for the 650. Needless to say, given all that I have learned about the 650 on TC, it is a decision that I cannot support. However, I have to wonder about the rest of the market... if our random (and not entirely tech-savvy) mid-sized firm is making the switch, how many other companies are doing the same? I'm not worried about Palm's market share.
    JudBaird, who is the carrier your company is using for the 650?

    I know all the sales guys in my company seem to have Blackberries, but for me, there is no attraction. I'd take the Treo over that thing anyday. I guess it all depends on your needs. I
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister

    Enabling phone calls to come through while using data.

    I don't think they can "enable" it. I think it would require new hardware. Does anyone know of any Class A terminals on the market? I am not aware of anything that does both voice and data, although it would be cool to be on speakerphone or headset and still be able to use the net.

    wait, I think you were saying get a call while using data. Can't you? I thought all devices were like that. Maybe I am wrong. As you can see above I thought you wanted to use both at once.
  3. #23  
    I will bet money on MY prediction. There will be a whole line of Treo phones from low end to high end. Some basic cell phone types with no thumbboard to something similar to the Treo 650. Some will have a slider. There will be at least one new Treo introduced around March. I got this info from a palmOne rep & a PalmOne Store employee. Take it or leave it but it make sense to me. Back when the Trteo 600 was released, they were talking about eventually having a family of Treos. Also I was one of the first to report on the details of treo 600 but noone paid attention cuz it was so early on. I got that info from a Sprint PCS rep....
  4. #24  
    I sure hate to sound like a stick in the mud, but I am keeping my 600 until the sound issues are fixed. As much as I lust after the 650, that is one bug I can't live with. If ya think there is noise about this now, wait till all those who are waiting on the GSM version get their phones, and have the same problem!
  5. #25  
    My prediction is that we'll see a bunch more monkeys on Treocentral in 2005. What I'm not sure about is how many of them will own typewriters.
  6. #26  
    1. It will be under the carriers' names that fixes will be released, so it will be up to them to decide what they fix. Sound and NVRAM will happen. BT DUN will happen on Sprint pretty late. PTT will happen.
    2. I don't think PalmOne will break ROM customizations intentionally unless a carrier makes them. They might break because changes they make just force it. But the community will figure out how to make the changes again.
    3. I think the 600 will just be phased out. It is an inherited prodcut from Handspring and I'm not sure where it fits in a family of products...mid, high? Better to just define the scale on their own terms and drop 600.
    4. LBS yes, not sure about Java only though. Won't be a plus enough to consumers that way to justify rolling it out.
    5. Yup. (back to #1)
    6. Yup on GSM rollout schedule.
    7. Not sure if market penetration in Europe will go up enough to matter for this year.
    8. I don't have faith P1 will release WiFi drivers for Treo either. If they do, then carrier specific updates would have to be rolled out first to work with it, sort of like how getting sound recording working on the 600 went down.
    9. I don't think Sprint will charge for BT DUN. Too troublesome to enforce. Like trying to stop PDAnet and the like working over USB. (I'm not sure about my prediction here.)
    10. PalmOne does have a followup to the 650 late in the year with incremental updates in hardware specs, but it's important to note it's a followup to the 650, not "the next Treo." Community will have to adjust to the concept of a family of Treos again. It will have Cobalt though. Will have internal SD a la T5, maybe only 128 MB though, but 256 if they're smart.
    11. If PalmOne supports WiFi SD card on next Treo, I think they will on 650 too. It will be too much of a public perception issue a la 650 memory if they don't do WiFi on 650. No good reason to give not to. (I think PalmOne learned something this time).
    12. I think there may be two new Treos. Family means at least 3 to me, high-mid-low. Low end will not have SD slot, and lower res screen (but better than 600) and no keyboard to make the form factor more marketable to the masses. Probably no Bluetooth either, and may not run PalmOS as we know it, but a version mucked up to be more traditionally cell-phone like. Mid range will have bluetooth and 64 MB of RAM and Garnet. Low end costs $199, mid $350, high $599. Low end will go for more like $50 with new subscriber rebates, mid $225, high $350.
    13. Yup on non-thumboard model, but it's not an experiment, it's part of the family.
    14. I think we'll see Cobalt before we see Linux based PalmOS on Treo. There's too much work for PalmSource to do to get the Linux version going, and I'm sure PalmOne has had Cobalt in hand plenty long enough to already be developing the new high end with it.

    My # 15 is that PalmOne gets it's act together and pushes multimedia capabilities in the Treo family, most noteably MP3. I don't consider the 650 to be an MP3 phone, and there are going to be too many new MP3 phones this year for PalmOne to ignore and think carriers will still want to use their product. The concept of the lower end Treos being a PDA phone will be downplayed because the low end consumer doesn't want that, they want bling. The mid-range will be the sweet spot for multimedia, so that's why it may have Cobalt. Needs to play the streaming video content carriers are starting to pimp and make some misguided attempt to market it as an iPod alternative. Low end will be relegated to the games and ringtone download level. This will raise PalmOne's status as a smartphone maker. They will continue to make Tungstens and Zires this year, but realize they've lost the battle there and concentrate on the phones. Bold prediction/less likely: they realize they've lost the PDA battle, but instead of putting all the resources in phones, they announce new Windows Mobile 2005 PDAs for 2006. Cobalt and Linux PalmOS won't save them in this arena.


    Overall, PalmOne will have an up year largely because of the mid and low end Treos targeted at consumers, similar to the iMac revolution (but not as big) for Apple in the 90s.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    Two more predictions:

    XM or Sirius radio tuner capability through sprint pcs.

    Enabling phone calls to come through while using data.
    Satellite radio through the treo would be very cool when travelling
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Well, last year I made a list of predicitons for 2004 and came quite close on a number of items, so I thought I'ld continue the tradition and try my hand at prognostication once again!

    1. PalmOne will finally release an update patch for the Treo 650, but it will only address the 512 KB NVFS issue. Further rom updates will be much longer in the future.
    2. Unfortunately PalmOne will also issue a 'fix' in the Rom update to break the rom customizations done via all the Treo hacking courtousy of Shadowmite and etc.
    3. Treo 600 will continue to remain in market for some time leading well into 2005. However the price point of the T600 will still not approach $200 mark many are hoping.
    4. This time Sprint really does release is LBS (location based services) that enable access to the integrated AGPS functionality of the Treo. Unfortunately, it will only be accessible via java plugin
    5. Sprint will release later in 2005 a rom update to unlock the PTT or RL features in the Treo 650.
    6. Most GSM carriers in US and rest world will finally launch GSM Treo 650 by late Febuary to March. Verizon won't launch Treo 650 for another 4-6 months as usual.
    7. Treo 650 market share improves upon Treo 600 penetration especially in Europe (where penetration was small to begin wtih) b/c of addition of features like BT and high rez screen. Unfortunately, US market share remains stagnant and does not exceed expectations b/c of increased competion.
    8. PalmOne NEVER releases official SD wifi drivers for the Treo 650. Instead 3rd party devs like C-guys etc take lead and release their own version to supplament cracked dirvers from shadowmite.
    9. Sprint releases Rom update to 'fix' BT profile to allow DUN, but also updates plans to charge for this service.
    10. PalmOne sticks to year-long product cycle to launch next gen Treo in late 2005 similar to pattern for Treo 600 and etc. Next Gen Treo will have only incrimental upgrades as indicated by past PalmOne history. New features include integrated jump drive funcitonality of T5 (256 MB+ of Nand storage) but alas no integrated HD, higher dual MP digicams or swivel cam for video conferencing support, CDMA 1xEvDo support as well as UMTS support, updated BT profiles and etc. Palmone will again tweak form factor/keyboard and finally remove antenna stub.
    11. PalmOne will offer SD wifi card drivers for next gen treo only, but will NOT integrate wifi b/c of integration of 3G WAN into next gen Treos. Treo users will again b!tch and complain about lack of features and curse PalmOne.
    12. By late 2005 Palmone will also finally release low end Treo sereis for ~$200 USD price point. Specs will basically be repackaged legacy specs found in earlier Treo gen but in more consumer friendly mold in pattern of low end Zire line. Treo users scoff and b!tch again but Palmone actually makes money on this
    13. PalmOne experiments and actually releases a non-thumbboard Treo model for low end! Model may instead have slide out numeric keypad similar design of other handsets.
    14. PalmOne does NOT release Cobalt based Treo in 2005 despite angst of Treo and overall PalmOS community. However, PalmOS for Linux may be released on Treo line completely bypassing Cobalt. Rumors of Windows Mobile Treo never actually materialize.


    So what do ya'll think? The predictions aren't that far fetched this time...probably because I don't have that much faith in PalmOne anymore! Considering their recent history with the T5 and etc, I figure it would be wise to not get hopes to high. Also, I seriously doubt PalmOne will ever release a Cobalt based devie in 2005. In fact, I bet the first lisencee to release a Cobalt based handheld will NOT be PalmOne and probably be an Asian based smartphone maker perhaps....

    Anway, does anyone want to comment on this predictions... or better yet, list your own predicitons!!!

    1. There will be no major feature addition on t650. P1 is scared sh1t breaking the already messy t650 ROM. ( no PTT, no LBS)

    2. There is no Cobalt for Palm smartphone. (ever). It's not stable, too big for Palm target pricing and PSRC simply doesn't know how to write reliable OS for smartphone.

    3. No low cost T600. It won't sell.

    4. No WiFi for t650 sprint. (Sprint doesn't like WiFi, because it screws up their 3G plan to milk the customer)

    5. Treo650 end of life is late fall '05, when microsoft releases next generation OS along with new hardware.

    6. treo 650 demand will tapper off as competitor offers similarly priced hardware with WiFi with far more attractive design and spec.

    7. Treo 600 is the last Big Palm smartphone. It's the Palm Vx of their smartphone line. It's all downhill from now on. (too slow to innovate, limited OS, too expensive, ...
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    I don't think they can "enable" it. I think it would require new hardware. Does anyone know of any Class A terminals on the market? I am not aware of anything that does both voice and data, although it would be cool to be on speakerphone or headset and still be able to use the net.

    wait, I think you were saying get a call while using data. Can't you? I thought all devices were like that. Maybe I am wrong. As you can see above I thought you wanted to use both at once.
    My understanding is that that's one of the drawbacks to 1xRTT and EV-DO, but is fixed with EV-DV (but is already fixed with GPRS/EDGE and UMTS, )
  10. #30  
    You will eat crow you Microsoft commie.


    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    1. There will be no major feature addition on t650. P1 is scared sh1t breaking the already messy t650 ROM. ( no PTT, no LBS)

    2. There is no Cobalt for Palm smartphone. (ever). It's not stable, too big for Palm target pricing and PSRC simply doesn't know how to write reliable OS for smartphone.

    3. No low cost T600. It won't sell.

    4. No WiFi for t650 sprint. (Sprint doesn't like WiFi, because it screws up their 3G plan to milk the customer)

    5. Treo650 end of life is late fall '05, when microsoft releases next generation OS along with new hardware.

    6. treo 650 demand will tapper off as competitor offers similarly priced hardware with WiFi with far more attractive design and spec.

    7. Treo 600 is the last Big Palm smartphone. It's the Palm Vx of their smartphone line. It's all downhill from now on. (too slow to innovate, limited OS, too expensive, ...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    JudBaird, who is the carrier your company is using for the 650?

    I know all the sales guys in my company seem to have Blackberries, but for me, there is no attraction. I'd take the Treo over that thing anyday. I guess it all depends on your needs. I
    I believe ATT/Cingular, when it becomes available.
    SONY Z100 (Sprint) --> Motorola StarTac 7868 (Sprint) --> Handspring Visor Deluxe --> Motorola V8160 (Verizon) --> Blackberry 957 (Cingular w/ GoodLink) --> PalmOne Treo 600 (TMobile w/ GoodLink) --> Treo 650 (Unlocked GSM on TMobile) with HBH-662 BT Headset --> Treo 700 w/x (Sprint) with iGuidance V3 / GlobalSat BT-359W GPS
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Palmone will again tweak form factor/keyboard and finally remove antenna stub.
    Hey, I like that antenna thing. 1) It gives the phone a bit of that trendy retro look, 2) it helps me to pull T650 out of my pocket sometimes as in jeans the pockets are so tight you can't get to the sides of the phone.
  13. #33  
    I thought I'd clear up a couple of things on LBS.

    "#4. LBS yes, not sure about Java only though. Won't be a plus enough to consumers that way to justify rolling it out."

    The Qualcomm API is written in Java, so it's pretty simplistic to include them. I believe they wouldn't have to modify anything, just include the packages. However, a native Palm implementation might require more work. For this reason, I'm going with Gfunk's prediction about it working with Java. As to whether it's justified, there are a good amount of Java-based LBS applications out there. I'm willing to take a rough guess there are more Java LBS apps than Palm.

    "There will be no major feature addition on t650. P1 is scared sh1t breaking the already messy t650 ROM. ( no PTT, no LBS)"

    The ROM already supports LBS. ShadowMite has found the screen in there (see http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...9&postcount=21). If it's included with the Java JVM there shouldn't need to be a ROM update anyway.
  14. #34  
    Hey, I like that antenna thing. 1) It gives the phone a bit of that trendy retro look, 2) it helps me to pull T650 out of my pocket sometimes as in jeans the pockets are so tight you can't get to the sides of the phone.
    I agree I like the antenna gives it character. A donut with no hole is a danish, a phone with no antenna is a pda.
    Everex Freestyle - Casio E-105 - Palm Vx - Treo 90 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Treo 650 - Treo 700p -Centro
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jayzee
    I agree I like the antenna gives it character. A donut with no hole is a danish, a phone with no antenna is a pda.
    Hmmm, I had an old cordless Cobra 900mhz phone with no antenna. It had zero PDA functions, so I don't see how it could be a PDA.
  16. mgauss's Avatar
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    #36  
    Palm One is as good as dead. Sony, Apple, Motorola are all looking. They see that Palm alone devices are not selling. Palm One is providing prototypes. Technical problems, products shipped with "the wrong software", horrific provisioning...its like 1999.

    What Palm One should have done is ship the Treo 650 with software that was only availableon the 650 with lots of unique advantages, so we would not port to a better phone. But no, we can leave the 650 in 1 sync.

    Imagine the day Sony makes a copy of the 650. With a real speaker, good voice, etc. No wonder the president left.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    Two more predictions:

    XM or Sirius radio tuner capability through sprint pcs.

    Enabling phone calls to come through while using data.

    Thats a wish-list, not a prediction! (i want xm too)
  18. emajy's Avatar
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    #38  
    I predict that my Treo 650 after any ROM fixes will still not work as well as my Treo 600 did.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by emajy
    I predict that my Treo 650 after any ROM fixes will still not work as well as my Treo 600 did.
    I second emajy's prediction.
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