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  1. #21  
    650now,

    Let's say your auto answer is disabled, but your hbh is on and in range, and then you pick up an incoming call by touching the treo screen. *important part* does your hbh still take the call at that point, forcing you to hit cancel to talk through the phone's microphone?

    Or do you have to press the hbh button in order hear it through the earpiece?

    Now I'm thinking mine's broken

    Clue
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    Skydive,

    Yours might be working like mine. Let's say my hbh 660 is on, and located within bluetooth range of the phone, but not right with me, say in the other room. The treo is with me. The treo rings. The hbh does not pick up this call automatically, even though it is on and in range. The treo will ring and ring until I answer it by taking action, in this case by pressing the screen. In this scenario, if I do pick the call by touching the phone screen, the hbh does pick up the call. I do have to press cancel to talk through the treo's normal microphone.

    Sorry for the confusion with post number 11. What I meant was that the hbh did not answer by itself with auto answer disabled, and that I have to press the hbh to answer the call. I should have been clearer by stating that I could also answer the call by pressing the treo screen. My point was that I have to take some form of action, that the hbh will not answer by itself. If you've activated auto answer, you'll notice that the hbh actually picks up the call on one or two rings, and you've got a live call on your hands while you could be fumbling with the hbh trying to get it in your ear.

    Aucoustic's first post was that "HBH-660 automatically picks-up even though Auto-Answer is disabled". I interpreted that to mean that his hbh was picking up phone calls without him taking any action. I think that's where the confusion lies.

    So after 18 posts are our headsets all working the same?
    Cluemeister, I think you're right on. My initial post confused the matter and skydive may not have caught the difference. My combo works like yours Cluemeister: 650 BT on, HBH-660 on in the vicinity, incoming call, try to answer call on 650, call answered by HBH-660. That's exactly it. Cluemeister, how do you cancel on the HBH-660 to be able to talk on the 650 itself?

    This still begs the question: should the HBH-660 answer in this way? Is there a setting to disable this automatic answering? I do find this "feature"(?) inconvenient and have dropped a couple of calls trying to figure this out...
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    #23  
    I also have the HBH-660. It works just fine for me. If I want to take the call on the Treo 650 I do the following:

    1) answer call via the treo
    2) The call is transferred to headset if it is in range
    3) tap the cancel headset button on the Treo screen
    4) Call is redirected back to Treo

    Only other solution would be to shutoff the headset if you do not want to use it, but the above solution works fine for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by acousticbiker
    Cluemeister, I think you're right on. My initial post confused the matter and skydive may not have caught the difference. My combo works like yours Cluemeister: 650 BT on, HBH-660 on in the vicinity, incoming call, try to answer call on 650, call answered by HBH-660. That's exactly it. Cluemeister, how do you cancel on the HBH-660 to be able to talk on the 650 itself?

    This still begs the question: should the HBH-660 answer in this way? Is there a setting to disable this automatic answering? I do find this "feature"(?) inconvenient and have dropped a couple of calls trying to figure this out...
  4. #24  
    The confusion lies in the difference between automatic answering and automatic transfer.

    Auto-Answer: The Treo rings and the headset answers the call. You now have an open call waiting for someone to speak.

    Auto-transfer: The Treo rings and the ringing is transfered to the headset waiting for someone to press a button (either on the headset or the Treo) in order to start speaking.

    So which is the problem? Auto-transfer is not a bug. If the headset is in range and is turned on then it is supposed to receive the call and wait for someone to press its button to start talking.

    But if the Auto-answer function is turned on, then the headset is supposed to act as if someone already pressed its button once the ringing transfers over to the headset.

    So, is it the transfer that is the problem or is it actually answering the call?
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by acousticbiker
    Cluemeister, how do you cancel on the HBH-660 to be able to talk on the 650 itself?
    After you pick up the call, and then right after the hbh answers, the speaker phone button on the treo screen turns into a blue headset button with the word cancel on it. When you touch this blue headset cancel button once, the speaker phone button returns, which is your original screen when you talk normally on the treo, and your hbh has been taken out of the loop.

    So it's press the answer button, wait for the blue headset button, and hit that once, and you're good to go.

    Clue

    P.S. You probably already know you can introduce your hbh into the middle of a phone conversation that is taking place. I just turn on the hbh mid conversation, it beeps a few times, and then it gives a connection beep. Your screen changes to the blue headset button, and your call is then coming into your ear. That's a nice feature.
    Last edited by Cluemeister; 01/06/2005 at 10:53 PM.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    The confusion lies in the difference between automatic answering and automatic transfer.

    Auto-Answer: The Treo rings and the headset answers the call. You now have an open call waiting for someone to speak.

    Auto-transfer: The Treo rings and the ringing is transfered to the headset waiting for someone to press a button (either on the headset or the Treo) in order to start speaking.

    So which is the problem? Auto-transfer is not a bug. If the headset is in range and is turned on then it is supposed to receive the call and wait for someone to press its button to start talking.

    But if the Auto-answer function is turned on, then the headset is supposed to act as if someone already pressed its button once the ringing transfers over to the headset.

    So, is it the transfer that is the problem or is it actually answering the call?
    Thanks for the clarification, Insp Gadget. The "problem" is that when BT is on the 650 and the HBH-660 is on and in range, answering an incoming call on the handset actually still transfers the call to the headset. Calls can be answered on the headset when an incoming call comes in by pressing the headset button. But when answering with the handset, it should not be automatically transferred to the headset.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by acousticbiker
    Thanks for the clarification, Insp Gadget. The "problem" is that when BT is on the 650 and the HBH-660 is on and in range, answering an incoming call on the handset actually still transfers the call to the headset. Calls can be answered on the headset when an incoming call comes in by pressing the headset button. But when answering with the handset, it should not be automatically transferred to the headset.
    I believe this is how they are designed to work, otherwise when you place a call from the handset it would not transfer to the Headset. Make sense?

    My HS810 Functioned like that (not auto transfering to headset) and I absolutely hated it.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    I believe this is how they are designed to work, otherwise when you place a call from the handset it would not transfer to the Headset. Make sense?

    My HS810 Functioned like that (not auto transfering to headset) and I absolutely hated it.
    That makes sense, sxtg, but there are different ways to look at the issue. It would seem that the signals representing an outgoing call (sending a signal to the cellular tower) are different than acknowledging in incoming call (it's not when the incoming call is ringing--the equivalent of when the outgoing call is automatically transferred--that the headset picks-up, but when the call is "answered", which is a different event altogether). I didn't explain that as clearly as I wish, but maybe I just don't know the appropriate terms.

    Anyways, I feel better understanding the issue now, but it would have been nice if the pairing acknowledged the difference between incoming and outgoing calls.
  9. #29  
    What you are asking for is to cripple part of the hands-free bluetooth profile functionality.

    Under that profile the call is supposed to automatically transfer to the headset without any action on the user's part.

    Picture this scenario: You're wearing the headset. The Treo rings. You look to see who's calling and then press the green answer button on the Treo to answer the call. If the Treo behaved the way you're asking, you would then have to press your headset button to get the call to transfer to the headset. This is how the HS810 works on the Treo 650. (It doesn't support the Hands-free profile... only the Headset profile... when paired with the 650.)

    That's "broken" and is not the way most people want their hands-free profile to work.

    It sounds like your Treo and headset are working the way they are supposed to. You simply want an additional user-configurable feature (Toggle Auto-Transfer on or off). Most people find this unnecessary because they simply turn off the headset when they're not wearing it. It doesn't make sense to have it powered on sitting in the car while you're in the house not using it. Simply turn off the headset and there's no proplem. It won't transfer then.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by acousticbiker
    That makes sense, sxtg, but there are different ways to look at the issue. It would seem that the signals representing an outgoing call (sending a signal to the cellular tower) are different than acknowledging in incoming call (it's not when the incoming call is ringing--the equivalent of when the outgoing call is automatically transferred--that the headset picks-up, but when the call is "answered", which is a different event altogether). I didn't explain that as clearly as I wish, but maybe I just don't know the appropriate terms.

    Anyways, I feel better understanding the issue now, but it would have been nice if the pairing acknowledged the difference between incoming and outgoing calls.
    I get what you are saying, but unfortunately BT doesn't descriminate. The function you want would actually have to be a hack on the phone itself that when the call is "placed" it would bypass the bluetooth functionality. However if that were implemented, you would not be able to transfer it to the headset for the duration of that call, which would prove to be an annoyance in itself.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget
    What you are asking for is to cripple part of the hands-free bluetooth profile functionality.

    Under that profile the call is supposed to automatically transfer to the headset without any action on the user's part.

    Picture this scenario: You're wearing the headset. The Treo rings. You look to see who's calling and then press the green answer button on the Treo to answer the call. If the Treo behaved the way you're asking, you would then have to press your headset button to get the call to transfer to the headset. This is how the HS810 works on the Treo 650. (It doesn't support the Hands-free profile... only the Headset profile... when paired with the 650.)

    That's "broken" and is not the way most people want their hands-free profile to work.

    It sounds like your Treo and headset are working the way they are supposed to. You simply want an additional user-configurable feature (Toggle Auto-Transfer on or off). Most people find this unnecessary because they simply turn off the headset when they're not wearing it. It doesn't make sense to have it powered on sitting in the car while you're in the house not using it. Simply turn off the headset and there's no proplem. It won't transfer then.
    Inspector Gadget, I respectfully disagree. When I have my Treo in my Covertec pouch on my belt and my HBH-660 in the ear, I simply press the button on my headset (without removing the 650 from its pouch) to answer the call. But when I want to answer the call with the handset (for whatever reason), I think it is better off defaulting to talking on the handset. Whenever I want to use my headset to talk, I would be pressing the button on the headset (which works great).

    I don't think this wish would have to cripple the automatic transfer of outgoing calls, as I believe they are inherently different (see attempt at explanation above). This is probably a moot point, however, in that there will not likely be a change.

    I agree that in a perfect world, I would always remember to turn my headset off or turn BT off on the 650, but this doesn't always happen and shouldn't be necessary, in my opinion.
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    I get what you are saying, but unfortunately BT doesn't descriminate. The function you want would actually have to be a hack on the phone itself that when the call is "placed" it would bypass the bluetooth functionality. However if that were implemented, you would not be able to transfer it to the headset for the duration of that call, which would prove to be an annoyance in itself.
    I'm not sure I get you here. I don't think anything about the outgoing call auto transfer should be changed. I agree that is excellent functionality. I just think incoming calls should have been tweaked a bit more--perhaps a user-definable option like Inspector Gadget suggested (select auto-transfer when answering with handset or not). Given that option, I'm not sure why anyone would want the headset to automatically get the call when answering with the handset. Wouldn't most people press the button on their headset if they were intending to talk in the headset (and have the phone in their bag, holster, wherever?). Isn't that the point of the headset--i.e. to be an extension of the phone itself?
  13. #33  
    Usage patterns vary between people, but I think you missed the point in my particular scenario. Sometimes people look to see who is calling and then simply press a button on the Treo to answer the call. The call is automatically transferred to the headset and all is well.

    I understand that you think it would be better if when you make a call you have the option of whether or not the call transfers to the headset automatically. Options are always nice to have.

    It just goes to show: different strokes for different folks. I prefer that the call transfers automatically. If I need it to stay on the Treo, I either turn off my headset or I press the Cancel button on the Treo's screen so that the call transfers back.

    It's never been a problem for me. Your mileage may vary.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  14.    #34  
    [QUOTE=Insp_Gadget]

    I understand that you think it would be better if when you make a call you have the option of whether or not the call transfers to the headset automatically. Options are always nice to have.

    QUOTE]

    I agree with your comments about personal preferences. But I just want to clarify that I do not want to change the nice functionality of automatic transfers with outgoing calls. I just think for incoming calls, the default is perhaps not ideal (extra steps needed, as reinforced by your post). Perhaps also, I don't look at the handset as much (and therefore would not use it to answer unless I was going to speak with it) since my HBH-660 has caller ID
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by acousticbiker
    I'm not sure I get you here. I don't think anything about the outgoing call auto transfer should be changed. I agree that is excellent functionality. I just think incoming calls should have been tweaked a bit more--perhaps a user-definable option like Inspector Gadget suggested (select auto-transfer when answering with handset or not). Given that option, I'm not sure why anyone would want the headset to automatically get the call when answering with the handset. Wouldn't most people press the button on their headset if they were intending to talk in the headset (and have the phone in their bag, holster, wherever?). Isn't that the point of the headset--i.e. to be an extension of the phone itself?
    Sorry, I accidently said outgoing instead of incoming.

    When I had the 810 it was quite combersome. My phone would ring, I would then look at the phone to see who was calling, then have to put the phone back then click the headset button. While driving it sucked, now I can just push the button on the phone and it transfers to my headset.

    I completely see your logic I just don't think it can be done with the BT stack. I believe it would have to be a hack on the phone itself to ingnore BT when...(whatever you choose to be the flag)

    Maybe Jeff Gibson can look into it for you. Try sending him a PM.
  16. #36  
    WOW, 24 posts in about 4 hours. This isn't a forum, it's a chat room.

    Well, it looks like you have all gone to bed, and I won't get an immediate response to this post.

    I have to say, looking at everyone's opinions on this topic, their are several opinions on how Bluetooth headsets should work, and, I agree 100% with acousticbiker.

    If you want to take the call with the phone, press the button on the phone. If you want to take the call with the headset, press the button on the headset.

    And I don't agree with SXTG saying that a hack would have to "bypass the Bluetooth functionality", and "you would not be able to transfer it to the headset for the duration of that call" I just want it to NOT let the call automatically transfer to the headset, and if I want to later transfer to the headset, I could press the button on the headset, and it would transfer. This works now, as I can answer, press cancel headset, and then later transfer to headset by pressing it's button. Keep in mind, I would not be the person writing this hack (if it happens) so I could be wrong. Maybe this functionality is too deep for the hackers to control, but I can't imagine it is.

    As far as turning the headset off, that means one more thing to do every time I get in and out of my vehicle at home. I won't remember to do it every time, and these devices are supposed to make life easier, not add unwanted steps. I did have a Moto 810, and when it was flipped closed, it was off, when a call would come in, you would flip it open, then it would take the call. Maybe I need to get in the habit of turning my headset off after every call, but I don't think the 660 powers up as fast as the 810 did. I might have to experiment with that.

    Please everyone, keep in mind that the only time I use my headset is while driving. It is a convenience and safety thing only. I do not walk around and talk on my Bluetooth headset.

    So, as with every electronic gadget I own, I feel you can not add too much user customizability.

    Here ends my long post, since I didn't get to make small comments between the last page of posts.
    Blue Skies,
    Wags
  17. #37  
    the other option would be a bandaid patch like like BTmute that would "click" cancel for you when taking a call, but again I don't know if app can decifer where the input came from (phone or headset)
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    650now,

    Let's say your auto answer is disabled, but your hbh is on and in range, and then you pick up an incoming call by touching the treo screen. *important part* does your hbh still take the call at that point, forcing you to hit cancel to talk through the phone's microphone?

    Or do you have to press the hbh button in order hear it through the earpiece?

    Now I'm thinking mine's broken

    Clue
    Wow! This topic has had a lot of activity overnite.

    Cluemeister,
    In case this has not already been answered several times for you, yes, when BT is on in the 650, and it and the 660 are paired and in-range, answering a call by touching the 650 screen transfers the call to the 660. If I then want to talk and listen on the 650, I must hit cancel.
  19. #39  
    I think the horse is dead. Should we beat it a few more times?

    I think the HBH 660 with the clear jabra ear gels is a keeper.

    Clue
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    I think the horse is dead. Should we beat it a few more times?

    I think the HBH 660 with the clear jabra ear gels is a keeper.

    Clue

    Agreed, I think after all this hashing out, we are all on the same page, as far as how the 660 works, and agree it's a great headset.
    Blue Skies,
    Wags
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