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  1. #221  
    Jeff-

    I think $20 for the full application is fair. I also think either a cheap ($5) or nagware ($0) version doing only manual profiles would be good. If you go the nagware route then it should only nag after a soft reset.

    Downloading .39 now to test the Z flag

    Thx again.

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  2. #222  
    Jeff-

    .39b does seem to still have a looping reset problem. As long as there is an event on my calendar with the Z flag used. Once the time arrives, it resets as it should then within 20 seconds of completing the reset it will reset again. I wonder if it has to do with using Repeating events. I scheduled a reset for 12:15 pm - 12:15 pm (Repeating daily - no end date). At 12:15 it reset. (Good) At 12:15.45 it reset (Bad) At 12:16.30 it reset ... and so on until I removed the repeating event from my calendar. I suspect I thinks it missed the event or something similar. Any thoughts ?

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  3.    #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Jeff-

    .39b does seem to still have a looping reset problem. As long as there is an event on my calendar with the Z flag used. Once the time arrives, it resets as it should then within 20 seconds of completing the reset it will reset again. I wonder if it has to do with using Repeating events. I scheduled a reset for 12:15 pm - 12:15 pm (Repeating daily - no end date). At 12:15 it reset. (Good) At 12:15.45 it reset (Bad) At 12:16.30 it reset ... and so on until I removed the repeating event from my calendar. I suspect I thinks it missed the event or something similar. Any thoughts ?

    -X
    Interesting! Well what is happening is that the event is still valid since we are still between the start and end times for the reset appointment when we come back from the reset. I will fix this later today and release an update.

    GOOD CATCH!
  4.    #224  
    A new build is available that fixes Xathros' reset issue.
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    A new build is available that fixes Xathros' reset issue.
    Fix confirmed. But I don't understand why the looping resets would continue even beyond the 1 minute time frame of my .39 test. Not that it matters now since the fix works.

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  6.    #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Fix confirmed. But I don't understand why the looping resets would continue even beyond the 1 minute time frame of my .39 test. Not that it matters now since the fix works.

    -X
    Well it was the way I implemented it. This is what was happening for those curious.

    SC detected the reset command in the calendar entry and executed the reset when the start time of the appoinment arived. I mistakenly cleared all knowledge of this command from the internal structures just before the reset thinking that we were all done with this command. (Well it was very late when I added this command to SC). So then after the reset was complete, SC scanned the calendar again and found the Z flag in an appoinment where the end time of the appointment was greater than the current time so it acccepted the command and executed it. Well that is how we got into the reset loop. Of course the looping would eventually stop when the end time of the appoinment was less than the current time. But that is not what the falg was supposed to do.

    I have corrected this problem now but this example does point out that SC will execute commands when the start time for the appointment is less than the current time and the end time of the appointment is greater than the current time. So this situaiton will apply if you add a new appointment where start > now < end.

    Jeff
  7. #227  
    So this situaiton will apply if you add a new appointment where start > now < end.
    Well thats what I expected but as I said above, the appt was 12:15-12:15 and the resets continued into 12:17 before I stopped it by removing the repeating appt. Again, no biggie as whatever you did resolved that issue. This should be highlighted in the Docs that Tanster is working on. Many of SC's commands are designed to operate at a POINT in time not necessarily a range or duration. Correct ?

    Next question: Can SC see calendar entries marked as private when hide records is in effect ? My testing indicated the answer is no. It would be nice to hide all of the SC clutter especially on my Agenda view of the calendar. I figured I'd just mark them all private then hide the private records. That gets them off the screen but also out of SC's view as well. Thoughts ?

    -X
    Last edited by Xathros; 01/26/2005 at 01:57 PM.
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  8.    #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Well thats what I expected but as I said above, the appt was 12:15-12:15 and the resets continued into 12:17 before I stopped it by removing the repeating appt. Again, no biggie as whatever you did resolved that issue. This should be highlighted in the Docs that Tanster is working on. Many of SC's commands are designed to operate at a POINT in time not necessarily a range or duration. Correct ?
    This is *not* true. It is perfectly OK to set an hour long appointment that has the reset command. SC will now only execute this command ONCE event though the event spans a large amount of time. Several commands are like this: HotSync, BlueTooth radio toggle and Reset. The reason you may want to have a large span of time is: you want to build a complex set of commands that contain many different kinds of commands.

    Next question: Can SC see calendar entries marked as private when hide records is in effect ? My testing indicated the answer is no. It would be nice to hide all of the SC clutter especially on my Agenda view of the calendar. I figured I'd just mark them all private then hide the private records. That gets them off the screen but also out of SC's view as well. Thoughts ?
    I am looking into this now. I don't remember filtering the collection of appointments at all. Will let you know more later.

    Jeff
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    This is *not* true. It is perfectly OK to set an hour long appointment that has the reset command. SC will now only execute this command ONCE event though the event spans a large amount of time. Several commands are like this: HotSync, BlueTooth radio toggle and Reset. The reason you may want to have a large span of time is: you want to build a complex set of commands that contain many different kinds of commands.
    Cool. That makes it much easier when entering commands as the default appt time is 1 hour. Can't multiple commands be performed in one entry though ? Like turn off phone, turn off bluetooth then reset ? I could see where it might not work if the reset was not last in the string but seems like it should work otherwise. This would make for a cleaner calendar than multiple appt entries with 1 command each.

    I am looking into this now. I don't remember filtering the collection of appointments at all. Will let you know more later.
    I'm not sure at what level things are hidden. SC may need the device password to access hidden records.

    On a side note, I can confirm what splufdaddy said: there is not a category option in the calendar on the T600. I could have sworn it was there but sure enough it's not.

    Feel free to let me know if i'm driving you nuts with all of this.

    -X
    Last edited by Xathros; 01/26/2005 at 05:34 PM.
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  10.    #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Cool. That makes it much easier when entering commands as the default appt time is 1 hour. Can't multiple commands be performed in one entry though ? Like turn off phone, turn off bluetooth then reset ? I could see where it might not work if the reset was not last in the string but seems like it should work otherwise. This would make for a cleaner calendar than multiple appt entries with 1 command each.
    Yes you can have multiple commands in one calendar entry. In fact I think this is where the power of ScheduleCare really shines. As for the order of entry that does not matter. The order of command execution does not reflect the order seen in the calendar entry. ScheduleCare executes commands in the following order:

    A
    V
    P
    E
    C
    I
    M
    S
    R
    D
    Z
    H
    B

    The Z, H and B all transfer execution control to another application so it does make sense to have H and B in the same calendar entry. The Z command is a special case since immediately after a reset, the calendar entries will be scanned after the reset. This means that if there was an H or B command that was not executed, it should be executed at this time.

    I'm not sure at what level things are hidden. SC may need the device password to access hidden records.
    Good point. I'll check into it.

    On a side note, I can confirm what splufdaddy said: there is not a category option in the calendar on the T600. I could have sworn it was there but sure enough it's not.
    It may not be there in the GUI but I am pretty sure it is there in the database so any category entries you bring over from Outlook for example will be stored and foundd by SC.

    Feel free to let me know if i'm driving you nuts with all of this.

    -X
    No problem at all! You are asking some very good questions that I am sure many are curious about. Keep them coming.

    Jeff
  11. #231  
    Jeff-

    Found another looping issue this morning. I had set a phone off at 2:50 am then a reset at 2:55 am. Both worked as planned and I finally got a good automatic backup! Then at 7:30 this morning, I turned on the phone manually. As soon as it was on, it turned back off. I turned it back on and again it turned off. I tried two more cycles and got the same result. I deleted the phone off command from the calendar and now the phone works again. I think the issue is still somewhere in the reset logic. Maybe upon command execution, SC should modify the calendar entry somehow to indicate that it has been executed. How about making the command flag lowercase after execution preventing SC from re-executing the command after a reset. This way, we could also tell if a command was executed by SC in the case where they are not as obvious (SMS sounds etc.). I know a repeating calendar entry can be modified without changing all future entries so I think this could work and would possibly keep the engine logic simpler.

    When we get deeper into the profiles, It would be nice if a scheduled profile did'nt show up in the calendar. I used to be able to take a quick look at my Outlook calendar and know what my week looked like. Now I have to weed through the daily recurring events looking for real entries between the SC events. Sure looks like a busy year at this point. If I could hide the SC events, that would solve this issue on the 650 but I think they still show up in Outlook even when hidden on the 650(not sure yet).

    -X
    Last edited by Xathros; 01/27/2005 at 07:33 AM.
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  12.    #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Jeff-

    Found another looping issue this morning. I had set a phone off at 2:50 am then a reset at 2:55 am. Both worked as planned and I finally got a good automatic backup! Then at 7:30 this morning, I turned on the phone manually. As soon as it was on, it turned back off. I turned it back on and again it turned off. I tried two more cycles and got the same result. I deleted the phone off command from the calendar and now the phone works again. I think the issue is still somewhere in the reset logic.
    That's interesting. I do exactly the same thing and I have not seen that behavior. I'll do some more testing to see if I can find the problem.

    Maybe upon command execution, SC should modify the calendar entry somehow to indicate that it has been executed. How about making the command flag lowercase after execution preventing SC from re-executing the command after a reset. This way, we could also tell if a command was executed by SC in the case where they are not as obvious (SMS sounds etc.). I know a repeating calendar entry can be modified without changing all future entries so I think this could work and would possibly keep the engine logic simpler.
    I really do not want to start modifying calendar entries. I already keep state information inside of SC for calendar commands. Can you check to see if you had a crash sometime after 2:50 and before the time you saw the phone cycling issue?

    When we get deeper into the profiles, It would be nice if a scheduled profile did'nt show up in the calendar. I used to be able to take a quick look at my Outlook calendar and know what my week looked like. Now I have to weed through the daily recurring events looking for real entries between the SC events. Sure looks like a busy year at this point. If I could hide the SC events, that would solve this issue on the 650 but I think they still show up in Outlook even when hidden on the 650(not sure yet).
    This is very easy. First need to *always* use calendar entries to drive commands will go away in phase II.

    Now for "hiding" entries. This is very easy in Outlook. You simply build a view that filters out specific category entries. I too had this "view" problem and found that by assigning a specific category to my repeating SC events cleaned up the view. So now all of my repeating SC events belong to the automated category and that becomes my filter.

    Now on the 650, I use DateBk5. DateBk5 also allows for filtering your calendar views by category. So on the 600/650, I set up DateBk5's filter to not show the auotmated category entries. Cleans up that view as well!

    Jeff
  13. #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    That's interesting. I do exactly the same thing and I have not seen that behavior. I'll do some more testing to see if I can find the problem.


    I really do not want to start modifying calendar entries. I already keep state information inside of SC for calendar commands. Can you check to see if you had a crash sometime after 2:50 and before the time you saw the phone cycling issue?
    Nope. No crashes logged. I have done some further testing and can reproduce this easily. Create a repeating entry for phone off with same start and end time. Create a repeating entry for reset 5 minutes after the phone off again with same start and end times. Wait for events to happen. Turn on phone. At this point, the phone should turn itself back off every time you turn it on. Doesn't matter how long you wait after the event. I will test again with longer events and see if that helps.



    This is very easy. First need to *always* use calendar entries to drive commands will go away in phase II.
    Excellent.

    Now for "hiding" entries. This is very easy in Outlook. You simply build a view that filters out specific category entries. I too had this "view" problem and found that by assigning a specific category to my repeating SC events cleaned up the view. So now all of my repeating SC events belong to the automated category and that becomes my filter.
    Thanks! Much better now.

    Now on the 650, I use DateBk5. DateBk5 also allows for filtering your calendar views by category. So on the 600/650, I set up DateBk5's filter to not show the auotmated category entries. Cleans up that view as well!
    Using the default calendar app does not allow for filtering on the 650 but it sounds like phase II will sove that issue for me by eliminating the need for calendar entries alltogether.

    Thanks again.

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  14.    #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Nope. No crashes logged. I have done some further testing and can reproduce this easily. Create a repeating entry for phone off with same start and end time. Create a repeating entry for reset 5 minutes after the phone off again with same start and end times. Wait for events to happen. Turn on phone. At this point, the phone should turn itself back off every time you turn it on. Doesn't matter how long you wait after the event. I will test again with longer events and see if that helps.
    Why would you create entries like this? I am confused why you would want to have an entry that starts and stops at the same time that turns off the phone. It is obviously a "legal" thing to do but why? It takes about 20 seconds to turn off the phone and another 20 seconds to turn on the phone. So an entry like this will only give you approximately 20 seconds of *off* time for your phone.
  15. #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    Why would you create entries like this? I am confused why you would want to have an entry that starts and stops at the same time that turns off the phone. It is obviously a "legal" thing to do but why? It takes about 20 seconds to turn off the phone and another 20 seconds to turn on the phone. So an entry like this will only give you approximately 20 seconds of *off* time for your phone.
    Well, Not sure actually. The way I understood the radio commands is when an event happens, the command executes as a toggle. In this case, phone off happens at 2:50. Once that event happens, the phone stays off until another event turns it back on later or I manually turn it back on. So it shouldn't matter if the event has a duration or not correct ? I guess I'm still stuck on the idea that the event occurs at a point in time and has no need for a duration. Sorta like saying "Turn off the phone at 2:50" rather than "The phone should be off from 2:50 through 7:00" My current scheme would have another event at 7:00 saying !scR1! to turn the phone back on. Am I way off here ? If the phone is on at 2:00 and at 2:50 I say !scR0! with a duration of 1 hour, will the phone turn back on at 3:50 without any additional commands ? Maybe I'm just missing something very basic here.

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  16.    #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Well, Not sure actually. The way I understood the radio commands is when an event happens, the command executes as a toggle. In this case, phone off happens at 2:50. Once that event happens, the phone stays off until another event turns it back on later or I manually turn it back on. So it shouldn't matter if the event has a duration or not correct ? I guess I'm still stuck on the idea that the event occurs at a point in time and has no need for a duration. Sorta like saying "Turn off the phone at 2:50" rather than "The phone should be off from 2:50 through 7:00" My current scheme would have another event at 7:00 saying !scR1! to turn the phone back on. Am I way off here ? If the phone is on at 2:00 and at 2:50 I say !scR0! with a duration of 1 hour, will the phone turn back on at 3:50 without any additional commands ? Maybe I'm just missing something very basic here.

    -X
    Yes you are misinterpreting the way calendar commands work. Every command but Reset (Z) and HotSync(H), work as toggles. Meaning that they save state prior to executing at the start of the appointment and then they restore that state at the end time for the appointment. So for example, if you create an appointment to last for 1 hour and have the !scR0! flag in the appointment, the phone will shut off at the beginning of this appointment and then turn on again 1 hour later. There is no need for another calendar entry to turn the phone back on again. Does this make sense?

    Jeff
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    Yes you are misinterpreting the way calendar commands work. Every command but Reset (Z) and HotSync(H), work as toggles. Meaning that they save state prior to executing at the start of the appointment and then they restore that state at the end time for the appointment. So for example, if you create an appointment to last for 1 hour and have the !scR0! flag in the appointment, the phone will shut off at the beginning of this appointment and then turn on again 1 hour later. There is no need for another calendar entry to turn the phone back on again. Does this make sense?

    Jeff
    Sure does. Also might explain the odd looping issues as well considering that I've been fighting against the internal logic by trying to use it in a manner not intended. I will reset my events using the appropriate logic and see how it goes. Sheesh! I feel like an ***** now.

    -X
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  18.    #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Sure does. Also might explain the odd looping issues as well considering that I've been fighting against the internal logic by trying to use it in a manner not intended. I will reset my events using the appropriate logic and see how it goes. Sheesh! I feel like an ***** now.

    -X
    No need to applogize! There is no documentation yet and these are usability issues others may also be struggling with.

    I also just did a code review and found that if the Start Time for an appointment is the same as the End Time for the appointment then SC sees this as a 24 hour (all day) appointment! I thought it was more likely that people would want an all day appointment than would want a 0 minute appointment.

    Jeff
  19. #239  
    Jeff-

    I've done some more testing and still have some odd issues. Here goes:

    1) Scheduled a !scR0! from 1:55 to 2:00. Phone was on. Event never executed.

    2) Edited task 2:05 thru 2:10 - Phone was on - Task executed, Phone turned off, turned back on and kept looping beyond the 2:10 end of span. Had to soft reset to get control back. During the looping, I could briefly see the dialpad screen and the time showed as 2:05 each time I saw it (even after 2:10). After soft reset I was prompted "Enable Network Time" (which was checked and which I left checked).

    3) Tried again with !scR0! !scZ! Task never executed.

    4) Edited to move into future again, Task did exec on time but - it reset then the looping phone on/off started again till a soft reset.

    To aid in diagnostics, I have only my one test event in the calendar at any time. I have disabled auto network logon thinking that it may be reactivating the phone (altho the wording there would indicate that it does the logon when the phone is turned on but does not turn the phone by itself). I have disabled KBLights off as well - just in case since it has an enable after reset option. I am running the latest beta release of Zlauncher but don't think that is causing any issues.

    Success on a task execing seems to be about 50% at this point for me. All commands are being entered in the event note and notes overrides description is checked.
    It doesn't seem to matter if the screen is on or off.

    Any thoughts ? or questions about my config ?

    -X

    EDIT: 2:22 pm - After last test failed to execute (2:20 - 2:25), I unchecked "notes overrides description" in SC at 2:22 then pressed the button for calendar and at that instant, the phone turned off. (Keep in mind, the command is in the note not the description). At 2:25 the phone turned back on and all is normal.
    Last edited by Xathros; 01/27/2005 at 01:26 PM.
    Xathros

    SprintPCS 650 since Nov 2004
  20.    #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xathros
    Jeff-

    I've done some more testing and still have some odd issues. Here goes:

    1) Scheduled a !scR0! from 1:55 to 2:00. Phone was on. Event never executed.

    2) Edited task 2:05 thru 2:10 - Phone was on - Task executed, Phone turned off, turned back on and kept looping beyond the 2:10 end of span. Had to soft reset to get control back. During the looping, I could briefly see the dialpad screen and the time showed as 2:05 each time I saw it (even after 2:10). After soft reset I was prompted "Enable Network Time" (which was checked and which I left checked).

    3) Tried again with !scR0! !scZ! Task never executed.

    4) Edited to move into future again, Task did exec on time but - it reset then the looping phone on/off started again till a soft reset.

    To aid in diagnostics, I have only my one test event in the calendar at any time. I have disabled auto network logon thinking that it may be reactivating the phone (altho the wording there would indicate that it does the logon when the phone is turned on but does not turn the phone by itself). I have disabled KBLights off as well - just in case since it has an enable after reset option. I am running the latest beta release of Zlauncher but don't think that is causing any issues.

    Success on a task execing seems to be about 50% at this point for me. All commands are being entered in the event note and notes overrides description is checked.
    It doesn't seem to matter if the screen is on or off.

    Any thoughts ? or questions about my config ?

    -X
    I am thinking that there may be some corruption in your SC internal settings. If it is not too much trouble, could you compeltely remove SC and then reinstall it. Then repeat your tests.

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