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  1.    #1  
    I had been fairly happy with the Treo 600, I had one for a year having got it as soon as they became available. However, I resented the fact that it didn't have bluetooth, and by the time the Treo 650 was due I saw that lack of wifi as being a potential for similar resentment.

    So I decided to get the i-mate PDA2K. At first I thought it was great, a choice of web browsing via GPRS anywhere, or wifi for high speed access at home or at access points.

    The trouble is that the longer I've had the PDA2K the less happy I have been with it. I have had so many problems with it that my girlfriend refers to it as a piece of $h!. Bluetooth didn't work at first, although they've released updates that improve matters. The microphone for making phone calls is very directional so sometimes people cannot hear you, or you find yourself accidentally covering the hole while holding the device. The speaker phone is rubbish - turned up to maximum volume it's just a little too loud to hold to your ear, but absolutely useless in a car holder. The buttons on the screen to answer while driving are too small. Switching on speaker phone is fiddly - you have to hold down the green call button for 3-4 seconds before it comes on (and then it's too quiet). The ring volume is too quiet - the case covering the speaker severely muffles it, and even when I can hear it ringing the call has usually gone to answerphone by the time I've opened the case. Battery life is rubbish - even with minimal use you HAVE to charge it daily (with a similar amount of use I charged my Treo 600 once per week). Macintosh compatibility is reasonable with the Missing Sync but I've still had problems - currently the are no contacts on my device, and no matter how many times I sync, remove the device from isync, reset all devices etc I currently cannot get any contacts unless I restore from my last backup. I also cannot install the latest ROM update - presumably an issue with using Virtual PC on a Mac - I get an error every time. Also, spent a fortune on Virtual PC because there is a lot of Pocket PC software that simply cannot be installed without a PC (or virtual PC) despite The Missing Sync being able to install CAB files. The keyboard: not quite as good as the treos, you have to press 'lock' to get a number to come up (unlike the treo which knew that if you were entering into a number field that you would want a number...) and although I had previously considered the slide out keyboard to be a great innovation - I actually found that most of the time I didn't bother with the hassle of sliding the keyboard and used the onscreen keyboard instead.

    Admittedly I have put the pda2k through more than I ever did with the Treo 600 (phoning abroad using Skype was great - saves needing a headset to use with the computer).

    To conclude - every time I have 'yet another problem with my pda2k' I decide that I might as well sell it. My logical other choice is the Treo 650. I suppose I can live without wifi (although a decent reliable device with wifi would be extremely useful). It seems that after going down the pda2k route and being disappointed, the GSM Treo 650 is STILL not available - but I'd be interested to hear other peoples comments about comparing the pda2k with the Treo 650.

    Perhaps if I went back to the Treo 600 I'd be disappointed, perhaps there are lots of problems with the Treo 650?

    I hope these comments will put people off getting the PDA2K - i-mates support has been terrible - the forums are full of people furious with them. Aparently if you have to send a device back to them you are responsible for shipping costs to Dubai ($100). For Mac users in particular, just don't do it. Even people who happily use PC's and Pocket PCs seem shocked that a Mac user would want to use a Pocket PC. It's just not worth it.

    I learnt an expensive mistake - but I'd be grateful to hear from anyone who has tried both the PDA2K and the Treo 650. I don't want to make the same mistake again and find that I'm disappointed with the Treo 650!!!! Any news when it will be available in the UK?
  2. #2  
    Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I have never used a PDA2K or the Sprint 6601 so I can't comment on it. But my experience with 650 so far has been very positive. 650 is by no means perfect, but the issues are minors, in my opinion, and the benefits certainly outweight the shortcomings.
  3. #3  
    It just goes to show there is no perfect device. I would assume that the Sprint, Cingular, and Verizon branded telephones don't have to be fixed in Dubai....
  4. damigs's Avatar
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    #4  
    I also had the PDA2K a few weeks before the Treo 650 hit the streets. Im laughing and shaking my head up and down as I also had the same issues with the PDA2K. After spending 850.00 for a device I didnt expect all these issues especially coming from a Treo 600 which had its share of bugs. I now own a Treo 650 and havent look back or at anything else. All thou T650 isnt bug free its still far exceeds anything currently out there.
  5. vinman's Avatar
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    #5  
    Glad I read this. I was just searching the Cingular site in hopes of some glimmer of official 650 news and decided to click on the SX66 link - you know, just for the heck of it ;-) I was so intrigued I have spent the past hour looking through forums and reviews. LOTS of people are having bluetooth problems - and serious ones. I can't tell enough about the SX66 to tell if it's a newer version of the many iterations of the PDA2K, but I'm not too excited about it anymore. The Cingular version appears to NOT have a camera - and regardless of all the hardcore opposition to this type camera - I use my 600's camera fairly regularly (and I have a nice 5mp camera). I don't always have or want my digicam on me, so it's a nice feature for me. Anyhow, after reading all this and the other problems people are having with this particular PPC, I am fine waiting a little longer on the 650! Thanks for the info!!
    Vince
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by damigs
    I also had the PDA2K a few weeks before the Treo 650 hit the streets. Im laughing and shaking my head up and down as I also had the same issues with the PDA2K. After spending 850.00 for a device I didnt expect all these issues especially coming from a Treo 600 which had its share of bugs. I now own a Treo 650 and havent look back or at anything else. All thou T650 isnt bug free its still far exceeds anything currently out there.
    Exactly. The number of serious bugs on the 660x is pretty high. Major BT problems, major ROM problems (beep of death and complete phone lockup), hardware problems with the keyboard nearly falling off on some units, screens cracking for no reason, etc.

    The 650 isn't perfect, but it seems to be the better of the two by far. The 650 also has a lot more support from users and software developers.
  7. jlczl's Avatar
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    #7  
    Shouldn't this thread be moved to the "other handhelds" forum?
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  8. g.711's Avatar
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    #8  
    My T650 comes on mondya, but doesn t the treo have wifi issues also, memory issues, slow to dial issues, stuck keypad issues, lockup and reset issues??
    I do not agree that the PPC have a Rom issue as far as I have read.
    From what I have read the Verizon PPC uses EVDO and there is no need for wifi.

    So why am I sticking with the Treo, well all in all I love my T600, if the screen and camera was better I would stick with the T600. So I'll see how the 650 works for me.

    And that is my point; its what works for you there are so many happy post about the PPC just like the T650.
  9. #9  
    I have the O2 XDA2s, i have non of the problems mentioned above and when i read about all the problems with the spirit 650, i hope that they will be solved, this 650 really needs to go from a beta state to a real one. I love my XDA2s, but size factor will make me buy the treo 650 or benq p50 for sure later on.
  10. #10  
    What do you guys need WiFi for? I'm assuming everyone that wants WiFi already has vision. Is it just to share files over a network?

    I agree that i'd like wifi too, but I think i'd only use it like every 6 moths if i did have it.

    -BT
  11. #11  
    I think your problems surround the fact that you are using Mac and have not resolved your issues with missing sync.

    PDA2k has a ROM update that fixes 99% of any problems that can be found on it. This is only after 2 months of releasing the product. Good luck getting that kind of support from Palm1.

    You speak of the phone being difficult when trying to answer the phone (pressing on the screen). Anyone that would give this phone even a minimal of a chance woud know that the BIG GREEN HARD BUTTON at the bottom of the phone answers it! In case you just figured this out, there is a BIG RED HARD BUTTON that hangs up the phone too. You should try it.

    I have found the speakerphone on the PDA2k is FAR suppierior to the Treo600. I am not sure what difficulty you are finding there.

    Ringtones are a problem on ANY device that accepts WAV/MP3/etc. Most sounds people choose were not designed to be ringtones. This is easily fixes by just enhancing your sound of choice by boosting its volume (any simple sound editor). All my ringtones are very loud, so much infact that I have been asked by both my wife and my brother to turn it down.

    As far as i-mate's customers being pissed off, this is true... but thats only half of it. i-mate customers are VERY demanding and particular. They expect perfection (as they should in my opinion). If these same people bought the Treo600 you would see how they felt about it! Comparing the problems of the Treo600 and PDA2k is not really a comparison. The Treo600 is/was a completly flawed device, and palm1 only came out with a single patch for it. Infact, palm1 never resolved the issues that still plague it today. i-mate customers would never put up with this.

    So finnally, the newest ROM. I can say after installing this ROM I have a flawless device. This thing works as advertised. Lets see if Palm1 fixes the problems with the Tre0650... and how long will it take for them to release a patch. I wish everyone luck.
  12. vinman's Avatar
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    #12  
    BT77,
    The issue with wifi is deeper than just having it available. Since the release of the 600, wifi has been suggested by both Handspring and then (initially) P1 as an option. A lot of people here (myself included) want wifi because for us, this device is all about convergence. If I could travel totally without my laptop, that would be incredible. Having the ability to surf (even if only occasionally) at high speed, would totally alleviate my need to have a computer with me on trips (business and pleasure). Being able to access the internet through Blazer is a great feature, but at slow dialup speed (the highest recorded speed I've been able to obtain anywhere - including NYC has been 28.8) means high minutes usage that just isn't a good option. The other issue is that there are lots of users (600s and 650s) who are IT people who need fast access to networks; and wifi is the only viable way to do that on a pda with any degree of convenience. To market and sell a product (then to remove the wording from later packaging) based on future abilities, and then not follow up on it better than P1 has, is frankly unethical. I simply want the convenience promised to me, even if I only use it occasionally. The promise of wifi was much greater with the 650 (even if understated officially), and still we are not getting anything but nebulous responses from P1. If you ask three people at P1 about wifi, you're apt to get three totally different answers - by anyone's standards, that's unacceptable. So, to answer your question in true P1 nebulous fashion, different people want wifi for different reasons. The fact that it's been promised us (both officially and suggestively) means that we are due the resources to make it happen, or some honest accountability as to why it can't happen. P1 has lost a lot of respect over this issue, and even though none of us want to hear it, they would do well by us to tell us if it's not going to happen. I'll step down off my soapbox now :-)
    Vince
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by farzonalmaneih
    I think your problems surround the fact that you are using Mac and have not resolved your issues with missing sync.

    PDA2k has a ROM update that fixes 99% of any problems that can be found on it. This is only after 2 months of releasing the product. Good luck getting that kind of support from Palm1.

    You speak of the phone being difficult when trying to answer the phone (pressing on the screen). Anyone that would give this phone even a minimal of a chance woud know that the BIG GREEN HARD BUTTON at the bottom of the phone answers it! In case you just figured this out, there is a BIG RED HARD BUTTON that hangs up the phone too. You should try it.

    I have found the speakerphone on the PDA2k is FAR suppierior to the Treo600. I am not sure what difficulty you are finding there.

    Ringtones are a problem on ANY device that accepts WAV/MP3/etc. Most sounds people choose were not designed to be ringtones. This is easily fixes by just enhancing your sound of choice by boosting its volume (any simple sound editor). All my ringtones are very loud, so much infact that I have been asked by both my wife and my brother to turn it down.

    As far as i-mate's customers being pissed off, this is true... but thats only half of it. i-mate customers are VERY demanding and particular. They expect perfection (as they should in my opinion). If these same people bought the Treo600 you would see how they felt about it! Comparing the problems of the Treo600 and PDA2k is not really a comparison. The Treo600 is/was a completly flawed device, and palm1 only came out with a single patch for it. Infact, palm1 never resolved the issues that still plague it today. i-mate customers would never put up with this.

    So finnally, the newest ROM. I can say after installing this ROM I have a flawless device. This thing works as advertised. Lets see if Palm1 fixes the problems with the Tre0650... and how long will it take for them to release a patch. I wish everyone luck.

    so you're back eh? im still trying to figure out exactly who you work for but one thing's for sure, it definitely is affecting your interpretation of reality. let me put things in perspective for you.

    1. the pda2k still has tons of problems, bluetooth being the biggest one (remains). CD released a patch for it not too long ago, but as was determined by most users, it was simply to shut up those very demanding users who expect perfection? from a phone (man, you need to get a serious reality check if you think a phone can ever achieve perfection for EVERYBODY). simply put, bluetooth doesnt work, yet. ive played around with around 10 units, rom different batches, and all except one had either the insufficient driver error or the stack expiry msg pop up every other minute. if your pda2k works flawlessly, great for you, you're one of the minority, trust me.

    2. answering and hanging up is a breeze on the pda2k, i agree. but doing anything other than that (including sending smses, emails and typing memos) requires two hands. this is a fact, dont argue it. the pda2k is NOT a one handed device. it's the closest to one handed a two handed device will get, but you simply MUST pull out the stylus or use both hands to type away at the keyboard. i dare you to hop in your car and start driving, then try to send a short sms msg to a relative or friend. if you say it's a breeze on the pda2k, you're lying to yourself buddy, simple as that.

    3. you compare the pda2k to the treo 600 which i dont really think is fair. the treo 600 was a previous gen device, comparable to the imate pocket pc that preceded the pda2k. the pda2k needs to be compared to the 650, and from what ive noticed, apart from wifi (whose singal never exceeds 50% even when standing next to the AP) and memory, the 650 is the better device. it has a better screen, better form factor (the antenna doesnt bother me, i actually expect my phone to have one since im old fashionned like that), better OS (for a phone), better keyboard and MUCH better implementation of BT, one that actually works.

    anyways, i know this will turn into another one of those mine's better than yours things, but after having used both the 650 and the pda2k for over a month, i feel better placed to counter your misleading arguments. fire away!
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    so you're back eh? im still trying to figure out exactly who you work for but one thing's for sure, it definitely is affecting your interpretation of reality. let me put things in perspective for you.

    1. the pda2k still has tons of problems, bluetooth being the biggest one (remains). CD released a patch for it not too long ago, but as was determined by most users, it was simply to shut up those very demanding users who expect perfection? from a phone (man, you need to get a serious reality check if you think a phone can ever achieve perfection for EVERYBODY). simply put, bluetooth doesnt work, yet. ive played around with around 10 units, rom different batches, and all except one had either the insufficient driver error or the stack expiry msg pop up every other minute. if your pda2k works flawlessly, great for you, you're one of the minority, trust me.
    Wakeup and checkout the new ROM. Problems are gone (not that there were many to begin with). I have never had a single BT or other issue since last weeks ROM update (this is also true for 2 friends who have PDA2k's).

    2. answering and hanging up is a breeze on the pda2k, i agree. but doing anything other than that (including sending smses, emails and typing memos) requires two hands. this is a fact, dont argue it. the pda2k is NOT a one handed device. it's the closest to one handed a two handed device will get, but you simply MUST pull out the stylus or use both hands to type away at the keyboard. i dare you to hop in your car and start driving, then try to send a short sms msg to a relative or friend. if you say it's a breeze on the pda2k, you're lying to yourself buddy, simple as that.
    VOICECOMMAND for dialing. Otherwise, why are you sending an SMS while driving?!? You must be one of those people that drive crazy on the road... typing on a cellphone.

    3. you compare the pda2k to the treo 600 which i dont really think is fair. the treo 600 was a previous gen device, comparable to the imate pocket pc that preceded the pda2k. the pda2k needs to be compared to the 650, and from what ive noticed, apart from wifi (whose singal never exceeds 50% even when standing next to the AP) and memory, the 650 is the better device. it has a better screen, better form factor (the antenna doesnt bother me, i actually expect my phone to have one since im old fashionned like that), better OS (for a phone), better keyboard and MUCH better implementation of BT, one that actually works.
    Again, BT works flawlessly. Said this before, even though Wifi doesn't show a full signal doesn't mean its not working perfectly. I use my PDA2k from over 200-300 feet from my access point all the time.

    I would compare it to the Treo650 if the GSM version was out.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by farzonalmaneih
    Wakeup and checkout the new ROM. Problems are gone (not that there were many to begin with). I have never had a single BT or other issue since last weeks ROM update (this is also true for 2 friends who have PDA2k's).



    VOICECOMMAND for dialing. Otherwise, why are you sending an SMS while driving?!? You must be one of those people that drive crazy on the road... typing on a cellphone.



    Again, BT works flawlessly. Said this before, even though Wifi doesn't show a full signal doesn't mean its not working perfectly. I use my PDA2k from over 200-300 feet from my access point all the time.

    I would compare it to the Treo650 if the GSM version was out.

    great for the rom upgrade. so now the pda2k works as it should have from launch. only 3 months late in releasing a patch that makes the device usable again, not too bad i guess...

    voice command sucks!! i tried it on both the pda2k and the jam, it works 1 out of 5 times and when you're actually using it (in the car, or when otherwise occupied), the ambient noise makes it so when you say call joe smith, it gives you appointments for next week. on top of that, it costs a pretty penny and im pretty sure pda2k buyers will be kinda pissed when they realise that to get one haned operation, they need to invest an extra 40-60$ on software and hope they beat the 5 to 1 odds against accurate voice dialing using voice command software. true one handed operation comes from the hardware and OS implementation, not SW addons.

    oh and i dont send smses only when im in the car. try sending an sms using the pda2k while youre walking down the street with one hand. anytime you're moving or are distracted by something else you can rest assured the pda2k will be inoperable with one hand.

    for wifi, great for you but again, i tested 9 pda2ks and their wifi performance when compared to a wifi sd equipped jam was dismal at best.

    the gsm unlocked 650 will be out in less than 2 months, id suggest you hold your judgement on how inferior the 650 is to the pda2k till youve actually held it in your hands and taken it for a spin...
  16. jruss78's Avatar
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    #16  
    There is no need to get testy. These devices can coexist. They fit different consumers, much like windows and mac. I for one prefer the palm os. That said there are some feature that I like about ppc. The fact is both of these phones have had there share of bugs. It's the nature of industry. Comparing bugs doesn't prove anything.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    great for the rom upgrade. so now the pda2k works as it should have from launch. only 3 months late in releasing a patch that makes the device usable again, not too bad i guess...

    .....the gsm unlocked 650 will be out in less than 2 months, id suggest you hold your judgement on how inferior the 650 is to the pda2k till youve actually held it in your hands and taken it for a spin...
    Mr. Hog, in looking through some of your old posts, you seem to have some deep inside contact with PalmOne. Go back over what you have said here. It sounds like a desperate attempt to keep people on hold while PalmOne gets its act together and fixes all the stuff that needs to be fixed with the TREO 650. Let's not be throwing mud; PalmOne has yet to OFFICIALLY release the patch that makes the darn telephone even work OK as a darn telephone! And then there is the memory problem, numerous hard-resets, incorrect instructions that led lots of folks down the wrong upgrade path. Need I go on?

    So, the GSM TREO 650 is now set to be released by MARCH??!! Do the PalmOne engineers think they can fix everything by then? Hope the fix will be retroactive for all of the good people that bought the Sprint version.

    The PDA2K doesn't sound perfect at all. But, I think I am more inclined to believe the report of someone who owns one than someone with ties to PalmOne. Sorry.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    great for the rom upgrade. so now the pda2k works as it should have from launch. only 3 months late in releasing a patch that makes the device usable again, not too bad i guess...

    voice command sucks!! i tried it on both the pda2k and the jam, it works 1 out of 5 times and when you're actually using it (in the car, or when otherwise occupied), the ambient noise makes it so when you say call joe smith, it gives you appointments for next week. on top of that, it costs a pretty penny and im pretty sure pda2k buyers will be kinda pissed when they realise that to get one haned operation, they need to invest an extra 40-60$ on software and hope they beat the 5 to 1 odds against accurate voice dialing using voice command software. true one handed operation comes from the hardware and OS implementation, not SW addons.

    oh and i dont send smses only when im in the car. try sending an sms using the pda2k while youre walking down the street with one hand. anytime you're moving or are distracted by something else you can rest assured the pda2k will be inoperable with one hand.

    for wifi, great for you but again, i tested 9 pda2ks and their wifi performance when compared to a wifi sd equipped jam was dismal at best.

    the gsm unlocked 650 will be out in less than 2 months, id suggest you hold your judgement on how inferior the 650 is to the pda2k till youve actually held it in your hands and taken it for a spin...
    Not everyone defines "one-handed" operation as being able to make full use of a QUERTY keyboard with one hand. For me (and many others) its being able to use my device mostly with one hand (I can use 99% of everything one-handed... besides typing an email or sms). I agree, typing on the keyboard with one hand is not as pleasant as the Treo.. the Treo excells there. For many of us, this isn't a critical factor (or even a factor at all for that matter).

    What can I say? I went from have a Treo600 that crashed all the time rebooting itself (I had 7 replacements, and didn't load any 3rd party software except GoodLink). All 7 units had that dreaded "BUZZING" sound that only the people you are talking to on the phone can hear. All of them had a crackly speaker on speakerphone. They couldn't edit office files without purchasing software. They couldn't terminal service and VPN into my servers without purchasing software. The screen wasn't great either. All this and palm1 only released a SINGLE patch since the release of the Treo600... and 8 months AFTER releasing the product. Everytime I had my unit replaced, I knew the new one was not going to be a "fixed" one, because palm1 decided not to fix the Treo600 hardware/software problems (not sure if you read the thread where people figured out how to fix the hardware problem causing the buzzing on their own, but killing their warrenty in the proccess).

    Maybe I am different, but having a device that 98% worked as advertised out of the box gets me a bit excited these days. Also, since October when my PDA2k was released i-mate (the company that sells the pda2k) has released 3 ROM updates and 3 incremental patches to provide its customers a better experience with their product. While the 5 patches that led up to the final patch that solved all the problems didn't solve 100% of the problems each time they were released, it did provide an option for the people who were experiencing issues. I for one (and many others do too) appreciate that type of support from the company I buy their product from.

    Maybe I am am different, but having a muti-tasking os that integrates seemless with my already existing microsoft suit of products gets me excited. Having a phone that sounds extreamly CLEAR as if you were on a landline also gets me excited. The "finish" of the PDA2k also made it love at first site; things like how they included a cradle & a seperate wall charger. It included an extra stylus. All the software to get you jump started was also included (full MS office, Terminal Services Client, VPN, MSN Messanger, FAX, Java MIDlet, Wireless Modem [lets your computer use your phone as a modem... no need for PDAnet], backup). The way it was a snap to connect and manage my handheld also was a nice change from the palm1 platform... how they make your phone an Icon under "My Computer" that you can click on and manage the file system just like a harddrive.... this is great for moving stuff on/off your phone (including the SD card in it). All that... and surround that will a 400mhz proccessor and 200mb of memory ontop of a multi-tasking OS and you have a combination that makes this mobile user very happy.

    To each his own, but for me I am extreamly happy with my choice.
    Last edited by farzonalmaneih; 01/04/2005 at 09:55 AM.
  19. #19  
    Any idea when the ROM update will be available for the Sprint and Verizon devices? The beep of death is terrible and cripples the phones.
  20. #20  
    what's so hard on sending sms' with your treo while driving...? it's easy...and I drive good. you must be the type that keeps both hands on the steering wheel at the 10:00 and 2:00 positions.
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