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  1. #81  
    I agree with JQPublic that whining gets things changed. I have to still disagree with some of the "whiners" here though. Posting a thread that the 650 is a POS simply to state it (rather than asking if there are workarounds or solutions for example) on a pro-Treo site is simply asking for the flames to fly.

    If you really think it's a POS, complain to P1 and vote with your dollar. Arguing with people here with a different opinion isn't very useful.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  2. #82  
    A most appropriate comment. The problem if you don't complain it will happen again. If you get a dog, and say nothing, they'll just unload another on you. So any amount of complaining may not undo it--although on the other hand it just might make the fix come faster--but it will surely make the next version less likely to be such a dog. No company can afford to get a reputation over a long term of running a kennel.
  3. #83  
    I agree that we should tell palmOne what we think and that will make their products better. However, I take issue with painting a picture to the neutral potential buyer (who is trying to decide between different devices/platforms) that the device is worthless, or that it should have never seen the light of day or that palmOne is grossly dishonest and using us as beta testers, etc. IMO, that is a very unbalanced view and is an unfair assessment. We do not need to exaggerate to the extreme to be heard. The device is extremely useful and, for many, quite reliable. It does have problems and these need to be addressed. I believe that palmOne would still hear from users even if they weren't yelling and screaming. Numbers are important and the more people voice their opionions, the sooner they will listen.

    I believe that the Treo 650 and TC together have shown us a new phenomenon. We should never forget that palmOne's direct response about the memory problem and the 128M SD card response came about almost entirely due to one weekend's worth of turmoil on TC on the heals of the product release! I think this is unprecidented. If TC weren't here, this would not have happened at this speed; not even close! Now was that good or bad for palmOne? On one hand, they got to start addressing the problem early, getting a headstart instead of the issue slowly but quietly festering. On the other hand, it landed it major headlines saying that their prime new device has a serious problem. So the jury is out on whether this is good or bad for the company. The more important question though is: was this ultimately good or bad for the consumer? I think we don't know either. If this unfairly negative (IMO) collective response from TC serves as nail in the coffin of palmOne, as some are saying, then I believe this is definitely bad for the consumer. The last thing we need is another de facto monopoly in the handheld and smartphone world that would definitely be bad for everyone. I don't want to see the company that brought the world the first successful handheld and the first truly smart phone go away. The competition out there is fierce and they are facing a competitor with comparatively endless resources.

    Am I saying that we should lie to make palmOne look good? Absolutely not! I am saying that we should give a level-headed response that represents reality. I believe this would be best for all of us.

    Enough rambling! I'm out of here
    Last edited by silverado; 12/28/2004 at 06:47 PM.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    ...We are lucky to have those than can fix the shortcomings. If you dont want a phone with shortcomings, then dont buy a 650. Wait til the 700 or the 1350 or the 4900 or whatever. If you want it bad enough you will accept all that is good and deal with all that is not and hope someone can write a fix for it.

    And that says it all, don't it? 'Nuff said. I'm done with this topic.
  5. #85  
    I want my next phone to be as good as possible so I'm not done. I want (Palm) to hear all the complaints and whines so keep 'em coming.
  6.    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    Am I saying that we should lie to make palmOne look good? Absolutely not! I am saying that we should give a level-headed response that represents reality. I believe this would be best for all of us.
    Unfortunately, level-headed and reality are not always handy for everyone at all times. For someone to get a fairly accurate idea of what the 650 is about, they need to take the comments of the "whiners" and "ranters" and balance them with comments of those whose 650s are rock solid stable, adjusting for the one-off frustration rant (me! ) and the palmOne-can-do-no-wrong gushing.

    You basically come away with the sense that the 650 is usable as-is, but has issues that need to be addressed by Palm. These issues are presently exacerbated by: NVFS, PalmOS bugs, some 3rd party software, previous Palm/Sony/Handspring installations, the weather, the NHL lockout, Starbucks' stock price, etc.

    Despite what I started this thread with, I love having the 650 - more so since I removed Butler (apologies to the developer). I somehow lost my saved preferences again yesterday, but had copied that file to the card so no time was lost. I was waiting for this device even before I got my Visor Prism and Minstrel S modem 4 years ago (remember Yada Yada?). I'll feel even better when a backup program comes out that works with it.
  7. #87  
    I thought backupman 1.52b5 works (?).
  8. #88  
    Some people are reporting problems with backupman, but 1.52b5 has been working fine for me.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  9.    #89  
    BackupMan apparently works if you have lots of free space available. If, like me, you don't then you see an error about low memory and it stops or resets.

    I'm trying out the beta of BackupBuddyVFS that was recently posted. It appears to back up fine, but who knows if it's really doing anything. CardBackup had been my program of choice, but as I found out Christmas morning it was a futile effort.
  10. #90  
    Awesome screen. Stable. great keyboard. I can rundown and change batteries and still retain what's in memory! E-mail almost anywhere and anytime! treocentral 24/7! What more can I say!
    Regards,

    2smart4phone
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    I was asking about new computer systems. So for the purpose of this issue, the Treo 650 can only be compared with something as general-purpose as it is. The closest class of products in complexity would be Windows or Mac OS. They are not wireless phones as well, but I'll give them a pass on that because they are complex in other ways. All the other examples you cited are so limited in functionality and openness (and, thus, possibilities for failure) compared to the Treo.

    Now, I strongly disagree regarding new Windows and Mac OS releases being rock-solid in comparison to the Treo 650. People explicitly stay away from new Windows OS's when they first come out because they are riddled with bugs, crashes and incompatibility issues. I also know the first versions of Mac OS locked up all the time (no recent experience with the first releases of OS X, but I'll be shocked if it's too different).

    Ask any IT manager in a serious organization and they will tell you. They put off upgrading to new platforms for substantial amounts of time, usually until numerous patches are released.

    Silver, every Windows machine and Mac I've purchased in the past 4 years has been very stable, esp. relative to the 650.

    This is completely true, esp. if all I am doing is:
    -Email
    -IM
    -Calendar/contacts
    -Office automation

    Which is basically the majority of what Treo's are used for (outside of being a phone).

    Also, a desktop OS is infinitely more complex than the 650, so I diagree with your saying the "closest thing to compare the 650 to a a desktop OS"; that just is not the case. A phone is a better comparison, although I agree the 650 is not your average cell phone.

    I know many IT managers, and used to be one before CTO. They can't wait to get to new releases of the OS, because overall, they are more stable. The only thing that holds it back is money, resources, and the dreaded application compatibility. It is a myth that people want to hold off.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotim
    Dead on...
    Dead wrong.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    I agree that we should tell palmOne what we think and that will make their products better. However, I take issue with painting a picture to the neutral potential buyer (who is trying to decide between different devices/platforms) that the device is worthless, or that it should have never seen the light of day or that palmOne is grossly dishonest and using us as beta testers, etc. IMO, that is a very unbalanced view and is an unfair assessment. We do not need to exaggerate to the extreme to be heard. The device is extremely useful and, for many, quite reliable. It does have problems and these need to be addressed. I believe that palmOne would still hear from users even if they weren't yelling and screaming. Numbers are important and the more people voice their opionions, the sooner they will listen.

    I believe that the Treo 650 and TC together have shown us a new phenomenon. We should never forget that palmOne's direct response about the memory problem and the 128M SD card response came about almost entirely due to one weekend's worth of turmoil on TC on the heals of the product release! I think this is unprecidented. If TC weren't here, this would not have happened at this speed; not even close! Now was that good or bad for palmOne? On one hand, they got to start addressing the problem early, getting a headstart instead of the issue slowly but quietly festering. On the other hand, it landed it major headlines saying that their prime new device has a serious problem. So the jury is out on whether this is good or bad for the company. The more important question though is: was this ultimately good or bad for the consumer? I think we don't know either. If this unfairly negative (IMO) collective response from TC serves as nail in the coffin of palmOne, as some are saying, then I believe this is definitely bad for the consumer. The last thing we need is another de facto monopoly in the handheld and smartphone world that would definitely be bad for everyone. I don't want to see the company that brought the world the first successful handheld and the first truly smart phone go away. The competition out there is fierce and they are facing a competitor with comparatively endless resources.

    Am I saying that we should lie to make palmOne look good? Absolutely not! I am saying that we should give a level-headed response that represents reality. I believe this would be best for all of us.

    Enough rambling! I'm out of here

    Well, that's all very nice. But...

    If you sell a $600 cell phone, you have set the expectation bar high. I think a "neutral" buyer who is going to drop that much coin should have the full skinny.

    When you fail, the hammer comes down hard (esp. from your loyal fans who are rewarded with a 128MB card (now THAT is a POS, not the 650).

    I think TC is great for bringing out the truth...it will not happen any other way. P1 cares only about carrier that it can see the Treo too, that is all. That is where the money for them is. Customers are an annoying by-product.

    There's too much Dungsten still floating around the company culture right now...hopefully that will change.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by otterman
    U

    You basically come away with the sense that the 650 is usable as-is, but has issues that need to be addressed by Palm.
    Don't get me wrong, I love my 650, but I would not agree that mine was usable "as is."

    First, had I not read TC, I would have probably have missed the PROPER way to upgrade from my old Treo and would have had the associated problems with that. Further, after a couple of days, I started to experiance resets everytime I tried to get into Blazer. Turns out this was a fairly common problem and the way to fix it was on TC but, otherwise, I would have returned the unit. I then had the versamail resets which were also easy to fix thanks to TC. Next, the memory issue is managable for me so far, but again only because of what I learned on this forum, otherwise I would have been maxed out already and ticked off! Further, although my sound issues have not been as bad as others reported here, I would have returned my phone at some point, thinking i had a unique problems that could be fixed simply by swapping phones.

    As I have mentioned in several other threads, IMO, the people that are really going to have problems with the 650 are not the "power users" but the average joes and janes that don't know about TC or have the expertise to figure out some of these things on their own.
  15. hls
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    #95  
    My only complaint is with the shoddy devices I've been given. I had to turn in three T 600's for a variety of glitches/breakdowns (screen went out; continual reboots; lock ups) until I convinced the manager to upgrade me to a T 650. It worked great for 2 weeks until the ear jack wouldn't work anymore and everyone said they couldn't hear me in conversations. Sprint just gave me another one (my 5th device in 90 days). So far so good, but I"ve wasted like 6 hours at the sprint store.

    Having said all that, I love the darn thing.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    I agree with JQPublic that whining gets things changed. I have to still disagree with some of the "whiners" here though. Posting a thread that the 650 is a POS simply to state it (rather than asking if there are workarounds or solutions for example) on a pro-Treo site is simply asking for the flames to fly.

    If you really think it's a POS, complain to P1 and vote with your dollar. Arguing with people here with a different opinion isn't very useful.
    Very well expressed. He is a much better diplomat than I.

    Also, Mikec is right on regarding the lofty idea that whining will improve the product:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikec
    Well, that's all very nice. But...

    If you sell a $600 cell phone, you have set the expectation bar high. I think a "neutral" buyer who is going to drop that much coin should have the full skinny.

    When you fail, the hammer comes down hard (esp. from your loyal fans who are rewarded with a 128MB card (now THAT is a POS, not the 650).

    I think TC is great for bringing out the truth...it will not happen any other way. P1 cares only about carrier that it can see the Treo too, that is all. That is where the money for them is. Customers are an annoying by-product.
    It is important to complain to a company, but I am skeptical about ever being "rewarded" with a fantastic Treo 700 some day from P1.
    As JQPublic himself says, "Don't hold your breath".

    The 128MB card is not a solution, it's damage control.

    TC is a great place for post-sale support. There is always a solution, although it sometimes takes time.
    I just hope there is an official firmware "update" soon, and that the GSM 650 is launched ready out-of-the-box with more memory...
    Last edited by Rob010101; 01/04/2005 at 04:26 AM.
    Using a Tréo 600. For now.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by imannie
    After reading this thread I've figured out that most of the rah rah posters either have $600 to throw away or don't use their phone for work. I've given up and am trading my THIRD sound impaired 650 in for a Samsung i550.
    I use mine for work every day using GoodLink. I haven't had any problems with mine (sound or otherwise) even after tinkering with it. Converged devices are complex things and really aren't for casual/inexperienced or users.
  18. howiej1's Avatar
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    #98  
    You are correct !! If people just sit back and say "ohh well, early adopter" then nothing will get fixed. I finally got fed up and called the CEO of PalmOne.
  19. #99  
    Sorry, I don't know about you but I just got my Treo 650 about a week now and enjoying it a lot. Everything seems to be working well for me. Staight out of the box. I had my thoughts of returning it from time to time because memory issue, but I got a 1gig sd memory card to store my movies, mp3, and etc... It's a nice device to carry when traveling and a nice all in one device that will fit in my pocket. Plus every devices has it ups and downs no device comes bug free, that is why there are fireware updates.

    One thing that I don't understand is why do people keep getting synch. issue. My synch works fine. I didn't even read the insturction (who ever reads that) on how to install it and etc.. and my device is function almost prefect again no device is prefect.

    Oh and if you are a palmone worker please have an update for all the bugs soon.
  20. #100  
    Silverado: I appreciate your point of view on this - especially your lack of trollying which is refreshing - but here's another 2 cents of mine: Do you also show up in the "HEY I LOVE my Trep 650!!!" and "The 650 IS AWESOME!!" threads and ask them to stop saying that so we can balance the picture for the neutral buyer as you say?

    I think you don't, and that's fine. And to everyone who says "if you don't like it, don't get one", just know that you are utterly missing the point.

    This is the thing: PalmOne certainly hasn't made ANY effort in asking me how I like my 650. I haven't received a call from them, or a questionaire, or anything of the sort that would tell me that this company is actually trying to hear from actual users, not some hypothetical marketing focus group. So, if they're not asking me, I have to make sure that somehow they get wind of the fact that a lot of us think they made a product that fell way below expectations in the quality department.

    If your expectations were lower than ours, and you're happy with what you got, and you think PalmOne shouldn't be bothered with our opinion, that's cool, but I will still try to let PalmOne know that I and a lot of other people certainlyt expect more.
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