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  1. #41  
    I think you are viewing this from only one perspective. The whiners may not be doing themselves very much good, nor you. But for me, it makes TreoCentral INCREDIBLY valuable to hear the whiners before I shell out. This is the one of the first new phones I've really decided not to get based on the early reports. On the other hand, I haven't forgotten that I was also leery about the 600 based on the early reports--for good reason. Within a few months a lot of problems had been cured and I'm really happy with the 600 now. Until the whining changes, I'm staying away from the 650 and all I can say is, thank god for the whiners! Consumerism is what drives innovation, and "whining" (it really is unduly negative a term--how about criticism?) is what drives consumerism, so keep on whining as long as there are problems!

    And, although I wasn't an early booster of the 600, I am very skeptical of those who say there is nothing as good as the 650, despite all its problems. I have a very strong and well informed feeling that the 600 is in fact just as good, taking into consideration all its (the 650's) problems.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by millsda2
    if you don't like it and all you want to do is whine about the 650, then hike your skirt up a little more and take it over to marthastewart.com.
    A bit off topic, but ...I think this very excellent discussion about the pros and cons of the 650 can go a long way without the sexist remarks.
  3. #43  
    I'm curious, I was under the impression that the PPC bluetooth does NOT allow voice recognition via the bluetooth headset just like the Treo 650.

    I believe that one of the devices (maybe the i-mate, I don't remember) has implemented voice tags for dialing, but it's only voice tags, not voice recognition, and it's only for that manufacter, other devices don't have the capability. Isn't this correct? I have definitely heard from multiple sources that Microsoft's bluetooth stack definitely doesn't support voice commands over a bluetoothh headset.

    Quote Originally Posted by levatino
    ....
    I prefer much of the PPC platform and MS's voice command. Opening an application through voice is good. Playing MP3's by voice is nice. Having bluetooth headset support for voice command...priceless.
    Last edited by bcaslis; 12/27/2004 at 11:15 PM.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  4. #44  
    Reading the forums first is not required. But for a device like this, reading at least some of the comments of the box should be. In my Sprint box, there is a big "read this first before upgrading". There is also info on the P1 support section for the Treo about upgrading.

    You are entitled to your opinon, but equating the Treo 650 to a Pinto is B.S. (by the way, I've had both ). The Treo performs mostly as advertised. I've had phones that out of the box worked worse than the Treo. It's been my experience that most of the Treo issues occur after adding stuff. You can disagree but if you read all these posts from people with few posts, they do follow the same pattern "I threw all my stuff from my Palm Vx into the Treo and now I get random resets, boy the Treo sucks!".

    The other common thread about these posts also seems to be that it's not really a request for help. It's mostly a flame that this thing is terrible and if you disagree with me you are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwilson
    I fail to see how you can equate "Did not read the forums before upgrading" with "user error". I mean, we should have a device that works, right out of the box, working to specs and as per the user's manual, which should be right on the money. Do what the manual says about upgrading, the device behaves like a turd, and it is "user error" for not reading a peer-support forum? Let's face it, the Treo 650 is the biggest pile of crap since the Ford Pinto. At least you had to hit those before blowing up. We shouldn't have to know that such forums even exist, in order to ensure proper functioning of a $600 product.

    On the other hand, having customized my own Treo 650 with the bunch of patches and ROMs (courtesy of wunderkind shadowmite) I love it, and I would kill the sumb!tch that would dare take it away from me. However, that does not mean it is a quality-controlled factory released product. I had to exchange 2 of them, and now I am on my third Treo 650 -- which so far, knock on wood, seems to be working just dandy.

    -mike
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by imannie
    After reading this thread I've figured out that most of the rah rah posters either have $600 to throw away or don't use their phone for work. I've given up and am trading my THIRD sound impaired 650 in for a Samsung i550.
    Maybe I'm just lucky but the voice quality through my Treo 650 is nothing to sneeze at. I've left messages to myself from the Treo to test this on several occasions and I find the sound quality normal for Sprint phones. I've also asked a number of people while I'm talking to them and they all said I sounded good. Now I happen to believe that GSM netoworks generally deliver better sound, but that's a whole other issue.
  6. #46  
    The point about paying a bunch of money to be a beta tester is well made. Imagine if other products proved to be so difficult to get fully functional. Who would want a car that crashed the first three times you took it on the road. I went to art school for God's sake, many years before computers appeared. I think it is reasonable to expect a user friendly product. Still... that said, I have learned a bit about nursing a sick Palm back to health, and I personally enjoy a bit of a learning curve.

    But what bothers me is the extent to which Palm made promises about WiFi compatibility that it was so shamefully unable to meet. I think it's reasonable to question the appropriateness of marketing items that are so far from being fully realized.
  7.    #47  
    I must admit I was a bit frustrated when I posted my rant, but aside from that there are still serious problems with the 650 that need to be addressed by palmOne. Reading Treocentral should not be a necessity to get the thing working properly.

    One thing I did to help the crashing was remove Butler, as mentioned here by some people. Helps me get through a sync now and has lessened the crashes. But still no backup utility that runs on all 650s.

    As for the user-error-by-not-reading-the-forums nonsense, utey, do you feel more knowledgeable about the Treo based on making that post? Some people don't post unless they have something useful to offer.

    To be fair, all I offered in my last post was an agitated rant.

    Someone mentioned starting from the ground up and installing everything fresh. I did that too, but because of the change in memory type there are new problems that even a fresh install won't fix. Sounds like the BackupMan situation is a perfect example: if you have plenty of free memory, it probably works fine. If you don't, it doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwilson
    Let's face it, the Treo 650 is the biggest pile of crap since the Ford Pinto. At least you had to hit those before blowing up.
    That was a good laugh! The Boom Car, I think they called them.

    lawgiver, I disagree with just about everything you wrote. First of all, who cares if the average user should be using it? If they need a phone and a calendar, it serves their purposes, however "novice." Ironically, the average user would probably have fewer problems with the 650 than power users because they would add fewer 3rd party apps, thereby not decreasing the memory and increasing the chance of crashes.

    I don't have a B.S. in computer science, but most of us don't need one to use a 650. The "idiots" either don't bother to learn the technology, aren't technologically gifted or have other things to do. That's what tech support is for. But nothing about the 650 should preclude anyone from buying a 650 and being able to use it competently.

    Quote Originally Posted by lawgiver1718
    1. Just cause you can buy a device doesn't mean you need to.
    When you pack all the bells and whistles into a convergence device like this, there will be problems. If you want the handiness of the device, you will have to deal with them. Just like your house, car, computer, etc. They all require work to use and maintain. This is all fairly new technology, but everyone acts like it should be perfect.
    Nobody has said anything about "perfect," but why do we have to accept that "there will be problems" on this or any other device? Yes, everything has some quirks, but just because it has a camera, phone, voice recording, etc., doesn't mean that we have to accept that those features won't work properly, especially since it's advertised that they do work. Why put it up for sale otherwise unless they're charlatans? That's absurd. It just means that none of those functions will do the job as well as dedicated cameras, phones, voice recorders, etc.

    My chain reaction of problems the other night started by a reset when I hit the return key while typing in a note. Is that supposed to be acceptable just because it has a camera, phone, etc., in the same unit? None of my other Palms (inc. Handspring and Sony) do/did that. In fact, my Clie NX80 is loaded to the gills with features, minus the phone, but has worked smoothly for 1.5 years. Sure it crashes sometimes, but infrequently, despite being loaded up and tricked out with various hacks and DAs (and JackFlash gave it 15 MB more space). Not to mention that the Treo 600 worked pretty much as advertised (or put this way: I didn't see nearly the level of dissatisfaction with the 600).

    I don't expect "trouble free," but I do expect thorough testing before a device from a known company is put up for sale.

    Quote Originally Posted by lawgiver1718
    2. Next, the fact that there is not another device on the market that blows the 650 out of the water should tell you that we are in a growing process when it comes to this type of mobile technology. It ain't perfect. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, JUST DON'T BUY IT.
    I was with you on most of this one until the last sentence. In fact, I DO like it. I just don't like that it apparently wasn't ready for prime-time, but was made available anyway (and just prior to Christmas buying season... hmmmm. Can you say "shortcuts"?).

    Quote Originally Posted by lawgiver1718
    You have to know that buying this type of device is going to require some skill. If you want trouble free, buy a camera, a daytimer, a phone, a video recorder, a dvd player, a guitar tuner, a Bible, a poker table, and whatever else is on your pda; throw them in a backpack and haul them around. You'll be trouble free.
    What skill? Can you use a phone? Check. Can you use a PDA? Check. Can you use your thumbs? Check. Does programming the time on a VCR require "skill"? No, but some people don't figure out how to do it.

    You have stuff like this that's trouble free???? That's truly incredible. No trouble whatsoever?? Your video recorder has never eaten a tape? Your camera has never failed to flash when it should? Your DVD player plays EVERY DVD flawlessly, every time? Wow!

    In closing, I'd like to quote GWB (of Treocentral, not Washington, DC):

    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    "In the end, I'm just totally baffled by the way you guys won't hold PalmOne accountable for their mistakes. You gave them lots of your hard-earned cash, and then you rely on unpaid strangers to fix what PalmOne should have from day one."
    I love the forums and community here (I was an old VC member), but I couldn't agree more! palmOne needs to step up and stop playing with the car kit Bluetooth drivers.
  8. #48  
    Excuse me for butting in, but I just have to add my 2 cents...

    I bought a 650 on 12/23--did this b/c I quit my old job and had to leave my old cell/pda combo behind (Sony Ericsson 615 tethered via Bluetooth to iPaq 3970--I was pretty happy with this combo). For me, it was between the 650 and the SX66. I read up extensively on both devices (reviews, forums, etc., including this forum). I chose the 650, and so far, I really like it. Why? It can be summed up in one word: Simplicity. Now, I'll expand a bit.

    My first PDA was a Philips Nino 312. Left a lot to be desired, but had enough functionality that it got me excited about the potential of what a PDA could do. Next came the Sony Clie T615--I **LOVED** this device. It had plenty of flaws (battery first and foremost), but it was so simple, so elegant, so thin, so functional. And I loved the community that surrounded it at ClieSource (now 1src). It was a device that worked wonderfully without any additional software, but at the same time had an enormous following and access to the entire library of (largely free) Palm software. The only gadget other than my iPod that I've ever "loved"...

    Next came the iPaq (because of a job switch). Now, I liked the iPaq for all it could do (especially with a BT phone), but it was SO BIG, and complicated, and I had to press so many buttons to get anything done, and it was SO SLOW compared to my 16 Mhz Clie... The versatility, screen, graphics and games were great, but when it came to actual function in a work environment and on the road I found it to be a bit cumbersome. And it bulged in my pocket. Not cool.

    So about 4 mos ago my search for the best current convergent device began. No more separate phone/pda pair for me. I wanted one device, and a BT headset in my pocket and nothing more. No laptop either. So after reading up on the SX66 and the 650, I chose the 650 because...

    ...it's small, pocketable,

    ...I can do everything with one hand -- VERY IMPORTANT!

    ...has a beautiful screen, has nice tactile keyboard, runs PalmOS (simple), great community, lots of free software, etc...

    In contrast the SX66 seems big, hard to use with one hand (based on the reviews I've read) and cumbersome to fit in the pocket. Also, more moving parts (i.e. sliding keyboard) = more trouble.

    I haven't had any probs with my 650 yet...it's worked very, very smoothly, haven't felt the need to add any new software to it except the free SoundRec which I mapped to the side button.

    I wish the screen on the 650 was bigger for ebooks and spreadsheets, and I still have a month left in my trial run (I'm not against returning it if I have probs), but so far...hmmm....I think I *LOVE* it!

    Yours truly,
    Onesix18
    www.jcarroll.net
    Nino 320 > Sony T615 > iPAQ 3970 > Treo 650
  9. #49  
    I am waiting for the GSM Treo as well, and having second thoughts. After reading this thread, I can safely say:

    1. I do not intend to insult anyone, although some posters can't understand why our efforts are constructive, despite the shortcomings of devices or they resort to childish, irrelevant attacks and whining.
    We are free to focus on solutions here, because we like to.

    2. It's also our freedom to ***** here if we are pissed off, and several have gotten it 100% right that PalmOne should be dragged out to the shed and whipped! Shame on them! What crap! You would think their development department consisted of 2 people, a software engineer and a student-intern in marketing.
    I mean, LESS memory?
    Doesn't work out of the box?

    But don't have any illusions that your gripes will change anything at P1. They only listen to the sound of the cash register. Or lack thereof. Get it?

    3. As an avid Treo 600 user, I can console the 650 owners of one thing: you will work out all your problems here and be very happy, if you have the tenacity and the time.
    I think it took about 6 months for P1 to produce the famous patch for the 600, which greatly improved things. So, I guess we have about 4 months to go. Of course, if the GSM version (due in the spring) is released with CDMA-like bugs, P1 will definitely lose me, because I am not waiting until October 2005!

    4. I personally think that, perhaps for the moment, the Treo 600/650 is the best form factor, because it's not too wide, but that completely depends on the intended use. I tend to be more data-centric, so should want a PPC, but they are too wide to be used as a phone if your hands-free is not handy, perhaps don't have the batt life (I hate it when "specs" don't even tell you how many mAh), and don't have the software choice that Palm does. I also don't like the idea of converting over.
    Also, there are several fantastic features of the 650, the screen foremost for me.
    Still, one has to know when to jump ship. P1 is lost, and there are no good Palm OS alternatives with an integrated thumb pad that I can see.
    It's a shame about the PPC or Qool screen resolution of only 320 x 240 and the lack of TFT with the SE 910i.
    So, I waver.

    5. Opinions here are going to be more favorable from those who spent already. That's a human bias that you have to consider. If there are many who bought it and hate it, that is a serious red flag. I have not read around these forums enough to know if that is the case for the 650.

    6. "Not designed for that". That's what Palm folks rightly said about MS's adaptation of windows for mobile. But now the Palm OS is suffering from the same problem. The Pilot didn't have to do all this stuff, and who knows which OS is better suited today?
    I guess at the end of the day is, you know, what is the real performance like, when you are listening to tunes and surfing your AvantGo channels at the same time, for example...
    Last edited by Rob010101; 12/28/2004 at 12:24 PM.
    Using a Tréo 600. For now.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis
    If Palm doesn't sell to the "average" user, it sells to no one. That is hardly a mistake. There are simply not enough "non average" users to support a palm phone. There aren't enough to support a phone. Or a Palm. Be realistic!

    As a result, Palm has a huge need to market a phone with full capability, effectively "turn key" functionality, and no noticeable defects. If they don't, and some one else does, they are history. History is interesting. But it doesn't make money. It doesn't even make phone calls.
    I did not say that the phone wasn't marketed to the average user. Obviously the company knows they need to market the device to as many as will buy. The good news is, the more that buy, the better for us. The device will continue to be marketed.
    The desktop is marketed to the average user. That doesn't mean the average user knows what in the world they are doing when they use a desktop. Same is true for treo.
  11. #51  
    I know you don't like the bugs, but I think everyone would have equally complained to have to wait longer for the testing. You can't have it both ways.
    You are also assuming more beta testing would make it error free, which is not the case on other devices I have purchased trhoughout the years.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    Reading the forums first is not required. But for a device like this, reading at least some of the comments of the box should be. In my Sprint box, there is a big "read this first before upgrading". There is also info on the P1 support section for the Treo about upgrading.

    You are entitled to your opinon, but equating the Treo 650 to a Pinto is B.S. (by the way, I've had both ). The Treo performs mostly as advertised. I've had phones that out of the box worked worse than the Treo. It's been my experience that most of the Treo issues occur after adding stuff. You can disagree but if you read all these posts from people with few posts, they do follow the same pattern "I threw all my stuff from my Palm Vx into the Treo and now I get random resets, boy the Treo sucks!".

    The other common thread about these posts also seems to be that it's not really a request for help. It's mostly a flame that this thing is terrible and if you disagree with me you are wrong.
    I had no intention to flame when I said that the Treo is a crappy product. In fact, if it were such a robust, problem-free product, people would not even start threads such as this very one. That being said, I do love my Treo, and after some tinkering it becomes a great product. Right out of the box, it isn't -- I already exchanged two of them.

    I also believe part of the problem is how it is being marketed. It is very tough, from a vendor's perspective, to make a decision such as "are we disabling some features, adding mandatory stuff to it, so that the average user is happy" or "are we leaving the features wide open, so people can tinker with it, customize it and eventually break it, only to blame the manufacturer". Either way you market and configure/constrain the device to a set of features, you'll have a vocal group crying bloody murder.

    Case in point: Bluetooth DUN: Not available (as shipped from the factory) = stable device, albeit with less functionality = technically inclined people are disappointed because of it. Allow bluetooth DUN = more feature rich, but less stable = general population disappointed because the device often resets, etc.

    -mike
  13. #53  
    All I have to say on this subject is that I am new to the TREO family as of a month ago (but I did own a palm vii many years ago). Had I ONLY based my decision on the initial posts here, I would have run away screaming from the 650 and bought a 600. I'm glad that I read the threads for a few days and finally summized that many of the complaints were extreme power users, people having issues with software vs the actual hardware and people nitpicking (yet nitpicking) over little criteria that didn't concern me (the way the SD card sits for example)

    Point is - people here are very passionate - and while that's good because you get the unabashed "truth" - it is by no means a litmus for the general populus on whether or not this device was a "mistake: for Palm

    Personally, I couldn't be happier. Yes - I experience a soft reset from time to time (three times in one month) but so what. My computer at home sometimes randomly reboots or craps out. It's technology and no matter HOW well it's designed - it will NEVER be infallible. Frustrating? sure - at times.. but it isn't the end of the world. Perspective.

    As for things enabled/disabled, not functional on the phone - try and remember that the manufacturer ANDDDDDDD the carrier have millions of elements they are working on and have to decide on. I know, firsthand that Sprint is VERY stringent on their designs and what they want on their phones. You can blast PalmOne all you want, but a fair amount of the things people are complaining about most likely weren't PalmOne.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by lawgiver1718
    You have to know that buying this type of device is going to require some skill. If you want trouble free, buy a camera, a daytimer, a phone, a video recorder, a dvd player, a guitar tuner, a Bible, a poker table, and whatever else is on your pda; throw them in a backpack and haul them around. You'll be trouble free.

    LOL

    Bad back, but trouble free
    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob010101
    I am waiting for the GSM Treo as well, and having second thoughts. After reading this thread, I can safely say:

    1. GWB can just go away, because this forum is not for consumers. It's for power users. Period. Use Google to find a consumer forum.
    It's not snobbery, it's called freedom. We are free to focus on solutions here, because we like to.

    2. It's also our freedom to ***** here if we are pissed off, and several have gotten it 100% right that PalmOne should be dragged out to the shed and whipped! Shame on them! What crap! You would think their development department consisted of 2 people, a software engineer and a student-intern in marketing.
    I mean, LESS memory?
    Doesn't work out of the box?

    But don't have any illusions that your gripes will change anything at P1. They only listen to the sound of the cash register. Or lack thereof. Get it?

    3. As an avid Treo 600 user, I can console the 650 owners of one thing: you will work out all your problems here and be very happy, if you have the tenacity and the time.
    I think it took about 6 months for P1 to produce the famous patch for the 600, which greatly improved things. So, I guess we have about 4 months to go. Of course, if the GSM version (due in the spring) is released with CDMA-like bugs, P1 will definitely lose me, because I am not waiting until October 2005!

    4. I personally think that, perhaps for the moment, the Treo 600/650 is the best form factor, because it's not too wide, but that completely depends on the intended use. I tend to be more data-centric, so should want a PPC, but they are too wide to be used as a phone if your hands-free is not handy, perhaps don't have the batt life (I hate it when "specs" don't even tell you how many mAh), and don't have the software choice that Palm does. I also don't like the idea of converting over.
    Also, there are several fantastic features of the 650, the screen foremost for me.
    Still, one has to know when to jump ship. P1 is lost, and there are no good Palm OS alternatives with an integrated thumb pad that I can see.
    It's a shame about the PPC or Qool screen resolution of only 320 x 240 and the lack of TFT with the SE 910i.
    So, I waver.

    5. Opinions here are going to be more favorable from those who spent already. That's a human bias that you have to consider. If there are many who bought it and hate it, that is a serious red flag. I have not read around these forums enough to know if that is the case for the 650.

    6. "Not designed for that". That's what Palm folks rightly said about MS's adaptation of windows for mobile. But now the Palm OS is suffering from the same problem. The Pilot didn't have to do all this stuff, and who knows which OS is better suited today?
    I guess at the end of the day is, you know, what is the real performance like, when you are listening to tunes and surfing your AvantGo channels at the same time, for example...

    What's up with the GWB bashing? He's just calling it like it is.

    This board is for power users? Better go tell the 50% of newbies to PFO...
    It's that kinda of elitist crap that causes problems.

    Look, at the end of the day, consumers, not power users will rule the day in the market. Hate to break it to you, but them is the facts. History is littered with excellent products that did not get the critical mass required to be a homerun.

    I think a couple things are very obvious after a couple months:

    - If you are going to release a premium priced device, you are already setting the expectation level (and rightly so). Existing 600 users are underwhelmed, while new users to the Treo are very happy.

    - The QA issues that PalmOne had with the 600 are replicating themselves with the 650 (maybe this will go down over time.) However, what is most disturbing is that the problems are more software related than hardware.

    - Someone reading these forums may get a good/bad impression, depending on their bent. Obviously, nothing beats actually using the device, and then you can make the decision. That said, here is skinny on the pro/con:

    Pro: Screen, keyboard (assuming you don't get a bad Treo), removable battery. camera.

    Neutral: Bluetooth. Crippled profiles aside. Headset is okay, sync is a disaster. Virtual serial ports? GMAFB. Could've been a lot better, and it's sad when phones that are 1/3 of the price of the Treo have better BT implementations.

    Con: No upgrade between the 600 to 650 (please, don't tell me about all the web links and info; the only safe way is to do a completely clean install, and reinstall apps) This is only an issue for those that have a 600.

    The memory, or lack thereof, is a real issue, which requires other software, hacks and workarounds. Annoying. If you have few contacts/calendar/etc., and do not load any third party apps, you are okay. If you are a power user, then you will need the workarounds.

    The real issue is how P1 regressed on memory from the 600 (less in the 650 than 600; usable). This is so counter to the entire industry trend of more memory and speed in the newer device, that I can't find a similar event in recent technology history (maybe someone can help out).

    Also, the speed of the device, app switching, etc. leave a lot to be desired. That said, it's still very usable; again, premium prices, premium expectations.

    Finally, the resets happen with more frequency than is acceptable. And they happen more often than on the 600, at least in my experience. That said, I have not lost any data due to a reset, so it's an annoyance.

    It's the Treo was selling for $199, no one would care about the issues. But at $599, it's a big investment for many. Add in a few hundred dollars in software, and you start pushing a grand for a "phone". (again, my view is that this is a PDA first, phone second).

    If you are new to Treos, you will likely be happy with the 650, assuming you ignore the Bluetooth sync fiasco and just use the cable.

    If you are a 600 user, your mileage will vary (along with expectations).

    It's still one of the best converged devices out there, esp. in terms of form factor. The question is how long that will last. Unfortunately, PalmOne has a poor track record of patches for the Treo (one per device), so I fear we are stuck with what we get until the Treo 700. Get another $600 ready.

    I hope PalmOne reads this and learns; they get one more swing (with Cobalt or next gen PPC), BT 2.0, wifi, 512MB RAM and a 2MP camera) next November, or they will have a tough road to hoe.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I hope PalmOne reads this and learns; they get one more swing (with Cobalt or next gen PPC), BT 2.0, wifi, 512MB RAM and a 2MP camera) next November, or they will have a tough road to hoe.
    I disagree. What P1 needs to do now is to come out with a smartphone that will hit the sub $200 price point after carrier rebates. Most people out there simply don't need all the features that you mentioned above.

    P1 needs a Tungsten E for the Treo line.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    I disagree. What P1 needs to do now is to come out with a smartphone that will hit the sub $200 price point after carrier rebates. Most people out there simply don't need all the features that you mentioned above.

    P1 needs a Tungsten E for the Treo line.
    I agree, what I thought they have needed for some time, actually, was a "350" Maybe no clamshell, would look a lot like the BB of course (heck, they licensed the keyboard from them). Make it simple, rugged, handle e-mail really well. Have some pluses that the BBs dont have maybe, but don't overload the thing.

    I have pointed several people to the $40-ish 300s on ebay right now and they are very happy. At that price you can hardly go wrong for someone that does not need all the things the 650 can do. Only problem is you have to add something to do email the way most people want it and even then not as good as on 600/650, but, gosh, $40 with all the stuff is hard to beat.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...740158666&rd=1
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    I disagree. What P1 needs to do now is to come out with a smartphone that will hit the sub $200 price point after carrier rebates. Most people out there simply don't need all the features that you mentioned above.

    P1 needs a Tungsten E for the Treo line.
    PalmOne cannot compete in this arena; they have made a decision to go premium line, and need to go that route. Higher profit, etc.

    Low end commodity is not Palm's strong suit. They have gotten reamed when they have gone this route.

    If you believe in the converged device, they need to dump the Tungsten. It's an albatross. People, if they have to choose, will carry the phone first and PDA second. You need to be THE single device people carry. (phone, pda, mp3 player.)

    "People don't need the features listed above"....sounds a lot like "640K will be all the memory that people will need". Learn from the past or be doomed to repeat it...

    PalmOne has a strong (rabid?) following ala Apple, and they need to cater to that. They should license the iPod interface, and they would have a phone, pda, and ipod mini (audio AND video) all wrapped into one. And with SD card getting bigger all the time, the days of the standalone mp3 player are numbered.

    Get rid of the antenna nub, add and extra SD slot, a usb2 mini connector and the above items, and every kid will be screaming for it. (assuming you get the pop and rap stars to come out, ala sidekick danger).

    (Damn, I should be running that company...)
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob010101
    ...

    1. GWB can just go away, because this forum is not for consumers. It's for power users. Period. Use Google to find a consumer forum.
    ......

    Sorry, but that's not what TreoCentral is for. You seem to be in the wrong place and being baselessly rude to those who have an equal right to be here. According to TreoCentral's original statement of purpose, this is what it is all about:

    "TreoCentral.com is a spin off from VisorCentral.com ...
    TreoCentral intends to become the center fixture of the Treo online community, ... where users from all over the world can share ideas and provide support to each other."


    This is for users. Period. Not power users. Not asocial users. Not exclusive users nor need-to-get-another-life-users. Just users. And especially not just 650 users. Those of us who would have liked the 650 to be something that didn't cause so much negative posts so that we could happily move up from the 600 but are waiting for some good news, we have every right in the world to be here. Because from what I understand and from what TreoCentral says about itself, this is for us. And surely this is a place for people who can read -- and understand -- something more than code.

    So if you can't be polite, just be somewhere else.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    PalmOne cannot compete in this arena; they have made a decision to go premium line, and need to go that route. Higher profit, etc.

    Low end commodity is not Palm's strong suit. They have gotten reamed when they have gone this route.

    If you believe in the converged device, they need to dump the Tungsten. It's an albatross. People, if they have to choose, will carry the phone first and PDA second. You need to be THE single device people carry. (phone, pda, mp3 player.)

    "People don't need the features listed above"....sounds a lot like "640K will be all the memory that people will need". Learn from the past or be doomed to repeat it...

    PalmOne has a strong (rabid?) following ala Apple, and they need to cater to that. They should license the iPod interface, and they would have a phone, pda, and ipod mini (audio AND video) all wrapped into one. And with SD card getting bigger all the time, the days of the standalone mp3 player are numbered.

    Get rid of the antenna nub, add and extra SD slot, a usb2 mini connector and the above items, and every kid will be screaming for it. (assuming you get the pop and rap stars to come out, ala sidekick danger).

    (Damn, I should be running that company...)

    Well, they have done pretty well I think with the low-end PDAs and, unlike the 640k analogy, there ARE a lot of people that just need/want the very simplest of devices, hence the BB success. Indeed IT types LOVE the fact that you can't do very much with the BB, makes their job a lot easier.

    I do agree that the market for the high end PDA-only (no-phone) device is a shrinking one and P1 best not count on that for the future.

    P1 has talked a while about a "family of Treos" and that is what they need. A high end one, a low-end one (perhaps my "350" concept, lol) and then maybe a couple specialty/targeted ones like they talked about at the roadshow, perhaps even a mp3 enhanced one like you suggest.

    Lastly as to the antenna 'nub,' historically the CDMA carriers such as Sprint have required that there be an external antenna. I know the 6601 does not have one and I think you can find one or two others in the past, but this has been discussed on other forums and, for some reason, there has been the general requirement of an antenna. Hopefully that will change, but if it doesn't P1 is stuck.
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