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  1. #21  
    sounds like a problem with your hand to treo controller.....
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgauss
    The Treo 650 is a great device. What I did was to start from the ground up, I installed all programs by going to the original .zip files from Palmgear.com, finding my old unlock keys, and not 1 problem.

    The operating system and the robustness of the phone are not there to be able to just sync the old device into this one. One has to do each program at a time. Its a much cleaner start, without hundreds of old files that eat up memory and create trouble.
    How bad is the delay in switching apps?
    Do you think its annoying?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by utey
    I am guessing user error on this one as well. Did not read the forums before upgrading. Again another user with less than 10 posts whose initial reaction is negative. ''

    You have to be blind not see the pattern.

    I guess the pattern is that nobody is allowed to post anything negative about the TREO 650 unless they have 200+ posts, huh? Mr. Rome above in this thread posted about 260 times before he got his TREO 650, but all his posts were positive about the telephone, so his are OK, right? Come on, fellows. The double-standard is not very nice. People ARE having trouble with this device, and some of them are getting a little hot under the collar about it. It used to be a hallmark of this community that you help someone having trouble, not just write him off because he is getting upset. Maybe you have never had a toy break on Christmas morning, but most of us have (as kids, of course!), and a guy can get really frustrated!

    I still think it's a shame that PalmOne isn't taking care of the folks that spend $600 on their telephone.....
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by utey
    I am guessing user error on this one as well. Did not read the forums before upgrading. Again another user with less than 10 posts whose initial reaction is negative. ''

    You have to be blind not see the pattern.
    I fail to see how you can equate "Did not read the forums before upgrading" with "user error". I mean, we should have a device that works, right out of the box, working to specs and as per the user's manual, which should be right on the money. Do what the manual says about upgrading, the device behaves like a turd, and it is "user error" for not reading a peer-support forum? Let's face it, the Treo 650 is the biggest pile of crap since the Ford Pinto. At least you had to hit those before blowing up. We shouldn't have to know that such forums even exist, in order to ensure proper functioning of a $600 product.

    On the other hand, having customized my own Treo 650 with the bunch of patches and ROMs (courtesy of wunderkind shadowmite) I love it, and I would kill the sumb!tch that would dare take it away from me. However, that does not mean it is a quality-controlled factory released product. I had to exchange 2 of them, and now I am on my third Treo 650 -- which so far, knock on wood, seems to be working just dandy.

    -mike
  5. #25  
    I have to say - I've been on the GSM purchasing fence (sx66 or treo 650). I'm slightly anti microsoft, a mac user..... and also someone who has written a fair number of user manuals. If a customer can't take the device out of the box, follow the instructions (upgrading or not) and have the device work well... that's an issue. Good customer service or not - I shouldn't have to have my phone replaced. Said person shouldn't need to know this board even exists. Nor should said customer have spent $600. Let's face it - we're hearing this a lot. I spent 6 months on the road, I can't always just drop by the neighborhood cingular store and do a switch. If I want reliability and a way to help my busines - it seems I have to go with the sx66. If I need a hobby - I'd go with the Palm. As much as I love this stuff (I am sitting here reading this board almost daily...), I just can't afford the time or the risk of unreliability. Maybe I just don't need to be on the bleeding edge. (Then why does it seem that the sx66 has more features, as it's essentially a year old phone in a different skin?)

    And it's painful - I really just don't want to go with MS. So if someone can convince me otherwise, I really would like that.
    got art?
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  6. #26  
    Hey all,

    I tried both out and this is what I decided and why:

    I pefer the PPC compatibility--it seems PPC applications and hardware is more universal. For example, an SDIO wi-fi card seems to work in most any modern pocket PC SDIO slot. Palm seems to want to hoard accessories that it produces for devices (and thus make money off them??). Come now, Palm in my mind SHOULD have worked with sandisk to get WI-FI drivers working. Instead they waited far too long to get their own wi-fi card out there. Bad for me as consumer, good for palm 1's bottom line (if it doesn't **** me off and I jump ship!). Ultimately though WI-FI becomes less of a concern with Sprint's reasonably priced Vision package.

    I prefer much of the PPC platform and MS's voice command. Opening an application through voice is good. Playing MP3's by voice is nice. Having bluetooth headset support for voice command...priceless. :-) Palm one just seems a bit behind the curve technically--and consistently so! BUT--the usability of Palm's calender is MUCH better to me than the PPC. I use my Palm to make LOTS of appointments and the ease of entering them under the palm OS feels better to me than the PPC platform.

    HOWEVER, the treo just feels better in my hand than the SX66. The size is a very, very nice compromise between size, form, weight and function. The screen could be bigger, but that would add bulk. The treo looks nice and compact, the SX66 looks a bit squareish and clunky in my eyes. I like the concept of a retractable keyboard, but I also like having my keyboard ALWAYS available on my 650.

    So I am a bit disappointed around 650's limited voice capabilities and voice dial bluetooth support---Around P1's propietary mentality that makes for a market of incompatible accesories a reality. The memory issue is not an issue ONCE i did a clean install (just add contacts and calender) and used Shadowmite's streamlined ROMS (and yes, i resent having to do this, void my warranty and open up all sorts of future compatibility issues--what happens if shadow ever stops 'supporting' future P1 ROM updates---but I admit I sort of enjoy the tinkering). I had problems when I tried to dump my T3 to my treo--there simply was not enough room and the celendar sync was left without enough room.

    I would love a treo with a 623mhz processor, with a 4megapixel camera, with 256 mb of memory and with built in bluetooth 1.2, wi-fi g, and 4.5 inch screen, fold out full size keyboard that offers immediate access in a device that fits in my current 650. And I want it to cost as little as possible. The point--the 650 is a my favorite compromise to date.

    Palm's aquisition of Handspring offers the best form for me. But will Palm be able to keep this design ahead of the PPS competition? I mean eventually someone is gonna stumble on a PPC design that rivals the Treo. The T5 is certainly no technological wonder. No built in wi-fi in this day and age on a non-phone handheld, dumb....

    I have hope for palm for the sake of having Microsoft not dominating ANOTHER market. But I am not optimistic. Can palm CREATE an original product with great form and technological breakthrough???Fingers crossed and eyes watching the market, breath held, turning blue...

    regards,
    Paul
    Last edited by levatino; 12/27/2004 at 07:49 AM.
  7. #27  
    The funny thing is, people have such poor memory these days.

    Palm DID create the pocket PC market. The original palm pilot was a breakthrough in form factor. At the time, portable computing was things like the HP 100LX, or larger clunkier devices like the newton. Running a tiny, do one thing well OS, and minimal hardware allowed palm to CREATE the handheld PDA market.. not even a few years ago if you wanted a "PDA" it came from Palm.

    Markets change, wireless explodes into the market, making network connectivity just about everywhere. People want microsoft, because everything else is microsoft. (heard this from a family member this weekend, they know it's not true, but they say it anyway)

    PalmOS was never designed to handle the large ammount of networking needed to do this kind of stuff. They never created devices with random device insertion in mind. Microsoft is used to this kind of hardware, so they architect their software to handle it. It comes at the expense of hardware. PocketPC's have large and long spec sheets, making them look more impressive (another "mhz myth" style marketing thing) but the software ties up all the added power.

    Maybe what PalmSource should have developed was a set of PalmOS roms for the PPC hardware platform specs, so you could replace the MS roms. It would be interesting to see the real differences in software on the same hardware platform.

    I got my 650 pre-order, and havn't had a 2nd thought about the purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by levatino
    Hey all,

    I have hope for palm for the sake of having Microsoft not dominating ANOTHER market. But I am not optimistic. Can palm CREATE an original product with great form and technological breakthrough???Fingers crossed and eyes watching the market, breath held, turning blue...

    regards,
    Paul
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Welcome to the world of PalmOne...where you pay $600 to be a beta tester.

    Only if you choose to.
    ELR
    >> Drop by! <<

    Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
  9. #29  
    I'm not a frequent poster, but I have owned an edge a 90 a 300 a 600 and I was one of the first to have a 650.
    I know this might make a lot of people mad, but it seems to me that this is not a device that the average person should have. Everyone that I have convinced to buy one of these devices over the years have not really used it to it's full potential. They just goof off with it, never really learn to use it well and sell it on ebay.
    I know that this device is being marketed to the general public, but that doesn't mean that it is good for the general public.
    For example, I have a BS in computer science, as I'm sure some of you do, and I can't begin to count the idiots that call me to help them do everyday tasks on their desktop.
    BTW, How many trouble free desktops have you owned over the years.
    My point is 2 fold
    1. Just cause you can buy a device doesn't mean you need to.
    When you pack all the bells and whistles into a convergence device like this, there will be problems. If you want the handiness of the device, you will have to deal with them. Just like your house, car, computer, etc. They all require work to use and maintain. This is all fairly new technology, but everyone acts like it should be perfect.

    2. Next, the fact that there is not another device on the market that blows the 650 out of the water should tell you that we are in a growing process when it comes to this type of mobile technology. It ain't perfect. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, JUST DON'T BUY IT.

    You have to know that buying this type of device is going to require some skill. If you want trouble free, buy a camera, a daytimer, a phone, a video recorder, a dvd player, a guitar tuner, a Bible, a poker table, and whatever else is on your pda; throw them in a backpack and haul them around. You'll be trouble free.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Welcome to the world of PalmOne...where you pay $600 to be a beta tester.
    What other computer products come out with significantly less bugs than you have found in palmOne's products?
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by lawgiver1718
    If you want trouble free, buy a camera, a daytimer, a phone, a video recorder, a dvd player, a guitar tuner, a Bible, a poker table, and whatever else is on your pda; throw them in a backpack and haul them around. You'll be trouble free.
    Amen, especially if you don't count back trouble.


  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by lawgiver1718
    I'm not a frequent poster, but I have owned an edge a 90 a 300 a 600 and I was one of the first to have a 650.
    I know this might make a lot of people mad, but it seems to me that this is not a device that the average person should have. Everyone that I have convinced to buy one of these devices over the years have not really used it to it's full potential. They just goof off with it, never really learn to use it well and sell it on ebay.
    I know that this device is being marketed to the general public, but that doesn't mean that it is good for the general public.
    For example, I have a BS in computer science, as I'm sure some of you do, and I can't begin to count the idiots that call me to help them do everyday tasks on their desktop.
    BTW, How many trouble free desktops have you owned over the years.
    My point is 2 fold
    1. Just cause you can buy a device doesn't mean you need to.
    When you pack all the bells and whistles into a convergence device like this, there will be problems. If you want the handiness of the device, you will have to deal with them. Just like your house, car, computer, etc. They all require work to use and maintain. This is all fairly new technology, but everyone acts like it should be perfect.

    2. Next, the fact that there is not another device on the market that blows the 650 out of the water should tell you that we are in a growing process when it comes to this type of mobile technology. It ain't perfect. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, JUST DON'T BUY IT.

    You have to know that buying this type of device is going to require some skill. If you want trouble free, buy a camera, a daytimer, a phone, a video recorder, a dvd player, a guitar tuner, a Bible, a poker table, and whatever else is on your pda; throw them in a backpack and haul them around. You'll be trouble free.
    Very well said!!!!
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #33  
    After reading this thread I've figured out that most of the rah rah posters either have $600 to throw away or don't use their phone for work. I've given up and am trading my THIRD sound impaired 650 in for a Samsung i550.
  14. #34  
    If it had not been for the help here on TC, I would have had to, reluctently, return my 650 because of the resets I was getting and my concerns over the memory and sound issues. The great posters here solved all of those problems and I am a VERY happy 650 owner.

    That being said, for what MOST people will use the phone for they should either get an ***** proof blackberry, or, what I have recomended to several people, buy a Treo 300 off off ebay. Good-as-new 300s are going for $40 or so and, at that price, its a great way to get started in the phone/pda world.
  15. #35  
    I know this will offend some people, but the primary mistake P1 (and originally Handspring) continue to make is to market a device with too much flexibility/power to the average user. Does the 650 have some bugs? Of course. But are many of the issues people are facing user related? No doubt. Until P1 makes a dummied down version of the Treo (I like the Ferrari analogy), we'll continue to see people tweak their way into Treo hell.

    I, for one, enjoy the flexibility of the Treo and wouldn't think of giving it up. If you want a turn-key solution, I'd suggest avoiding the Treo and get another device.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotim
    I know this will offend some people, but the primary mistake P1 (and originally Handspring) continue to make is to market a device with too much flexibility/power to the average user. Does the 650 have some bugs? Of course. But are many of the issues people are facing user related? No doubt. Until P1 makes a dummied down version of the Treo (I like the Ferrari analogy), we'll continue to see people tweak their way into Treo hell.

    I, for one, enjoy the flexibility of the Treo and wouldn't think of giving it up. If you want a turn-key solution, I'd suggest avoiding the Treo and get another device.
    amen, brotha
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    #37  
    Umm, the problem here , or rather the BIG Problem is tha neither Palm nor Sprint , god-forbid, will admidt to the sound problem. This is a Phone first and, as it stands now it is unusable. I already told Sprint that I will not pay for service until I have a working 650. ow, all I have to do is wait for the PRPRPR $folks$ $at$ $Palm$ $to$ $get$ $back$ $to$ $me$. $After$ $they$ $hear$ $my$ $voicemail$, $they$ $should$ $getback$ $to$ $me$ $and$ $I$ $will$ $report$ $back$ $to$ $the$ $board$.
  18. #38  
    If Palm doesn't sell to the "average" user, it sells to no one. That is hardly a mistake. There are simply not enough "non average" users to support a palm phone. There aren't enough to support a phone. Or a Palm. Be realistic!

    As a result, Palm has a huge need to market a phone with full capability, effectively "turn key" functionality, and no noticeable defects. If they don't, and some one else does, they are history. History is interesting. But it doesn't make money. It doesn't even make phone calls.
    Last edited by mdavis; 12/27/2004 at 08:43 PM. Reason: mal de vie
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by imannie
    After reading this thread I've figured out that most of the rah rah posters either have $600 to throw away or don't use their phone for work. I've given up and am trading my THIRD sound impaired 650 in for a Samsung i550.
    I have to vehemently disagree with this. Not all of those who love this device use it in their trade, and I rather doubt that even the wealthiest among us throws away $600 without a second thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by treotim
    I know this will offend some people, but the primary mistake P1 (and originally Handspring) continue to make is to market a device with too much flexibility/power to the average user. Does the 650 have some bugs? Of course. But are many of the issues people are facing user related? No doubt. Until P1 makes a dummied down version of the Treo (I like the Ferrari analogy), we'll continue to see people tweak their way into Treo hell.
    Now this is a little snooty as well. I'm sitting here typing on my Dell Precision M60 laptop. It cost me $3500 on the Dell refurb site; it should have been about $5000. I am no rocket scientist, but I do some graphics work as you might be able to tell from my gorgeous avatar (amazing what you can do with 39k!). This laptop came loaded with the various software things I needed, and it walked me through setting up stuff like internet connections. Loading up other software wasn't too hard. And yet, this is a very, very powerful computer, and very, very flexible. Yes, there is the usual virus and spy ware protection you need to add, and a dozen other things you need to consider. And you do indeed have to be careful about "tweaking" too much. Still, the laptop worked right out of the box. The TREO 650 doesn't.

    What I am hearing here is that the flaws in the telephone have led to the creation of an exclusive little TREO 650 club, designed to exclude the average man:

    Quote Originally Posted by lawgiver1718
    ....it seems to me that this is not a device that the average person should have....I know that this device is being marketed to the general public, but that doesn't mean that it is good for the general public.
    and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Utey
    I am guessing user error on this one as well. Did not read the forums before upgrading. Again another user with less than 10 posts whose initial reaction is negative. ''

    You have to be blind not see the pattern.
    We don't need to beat the dead horse anymore. What we have here is a critter that simply doesn't work without the support you good people on this site provide. And you know something? You are pretty much marginalizing our beloved PalmOne. You are telling them basically just give HTC the specs for the device's manufacture, and then go away. PalmOne can do no wrong in the hardware setup, or at least we don't care if they screw up the design. We have guys like Silverado to help us get around memory screwups and Shadowmite to reprogram the whole damn thing anyway. We, the TreoCentrals, DON'T NEED anyone from PalmOne, to fix our precious TREO 650's.

    Anyone who doesn't read every post, or search for every single possible permutation of the problem he's having is beneath contempt. TREO 650 ownership is a right-of-passage, where only the strong need apply. If you aren't a TreoCentral POWER-USER, then you shouldn't even be ALLOWED to buy a 650. To heck with PalmOne's weenie attitude that only a few power-users are going to have trouble. WE are the only ones who DON'T have trouble. Join us or give back your telephone.

    Really, guys, while this rant represents a little hyperbole, you are starting to sound a little bit like it. Look, you guys aren't perfect either. Lots of you haven't even mastered the art of trimming a quote of the posting immediately above yours.

    In the end, I'm just totally baffled by the way you guys won't hold PalmOne accountable for their mistakes. You gave them lots of your hard-earned cash, and then you rely on unpaid strangers to fix what PalmOne should have from day one. Would you take your Ferarri downtown and let the first bum you find with a wrench work on the engine? No offense, guys, but it took some cojones as we say where I'm from to flash your ROM with stuff from someone you don't even know. Here's a quote from another thread that kinda sums it up:

    Quote Originally Posted by GMSchiller
    Had probs unlocking it brand new from the box. I went to a sprint store and asked for help. Walked out with a new phone. Took 2 hours, but I got another new phone. I'll be exchanging it soon as well... As soon as they come out with some solutions to our problems. Please, no ethical comments. I would not exchange it if it did not have defects. Bugs I have to "hack" to fix are defects in my eyes.
    The old TREO 600 wasn't perfect, but it didn't seem to have the same fundamental flaws that only really high-end power users could fix. Near as I can tell, the main improvement the 650 has over the 600 is that simply wonderful screen, and the only consistent advantage over PPC is the better implemented one-hand function.

    What are all you TreoCentral'ers looking at on that gorgeous screen, and why do you need the other hand free? On second thought, maybe I don't want to know.....
    Last edited by GWB; 12/27/2004 at 09:13 PM.
  20. #40  
    I'm with lawgiver on this one...if you don't like it and all you want to do is whine about the 650, then hike your skirt up a little more and take it over to marthastewart.com. But if you're committed to the success, trials, and failures of the 650 and genuinely just want to overcome any negative issues that you may have, then the rest of us will listen and help. (Don't rely on me yet though...hehe...I might make it worse)
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