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  1.    #1  
    I'm going to go against the flow here and stick with good 'ole pa1mOne/PalmSource. Why? The talent is still there, somewhere. I feel that this pair is on the verge of a renaissance, especially with the acquisition of China MobileSoft and the impending release (dear lord, I hope) of a Cobalt device.
    Thatís just the PalmSource side of things. Pa1mOne just got delivered a swift kick in the *** if you ask me. And I believe they will wake up in short time. Shadowmite and company alone have disproved two of their lies/nondisclosure/cover-ups/conspiracies/whatever with the 650, turning it into the mobile powerhouse that it was meant to be. Letís not forget what happened after Palmís last flop: the m500 series. Anybody remember what came next? The Tungsten! I owned one of those beauties for over a year before my current beautiful T3.
    Despite the splitting of Palm, pa1mOne and PalmSource are still inseparable. PalmSource CANíT survive without the licensing of pa1mOne. And pa1mOne canít survive on a different OS, too many would abandon it.
    Iíve been disappointed by pa1mOne before, for sure. I waited so eagerly for the bleeding edge that the T5 was too be, but in the end it ended up being a step back. So my attention shifted to going converged with the Treo 650. I wasnít disappointed at all. Sure, the 650 has a few (maybe more) wrinkles to be ironed out, but all-in-all, it is an incredible device. How much would you have paid for something like this five years ago?
    There are a few things pa1mOne has to do to pull itís act together (PalmSource already seems to be in the act of doing so).
    (1) Be creative: Yes, the Treo 600 and Tungsten E were huge successes, but thatís no excuse to pattern your Ďnext generationí devices after them. NVFS was a stumble in the right direction, although I agree that 23 Mb was an oversight on their part. Give us options in the Treo line. Make a $300 Treo 700: 320x320 screen (nothing else is acceptable anymore), 32 mb of RAM, traditional cell-phone dial pad, SD slot, internal antenna. Nothing more. You need to bring in fresh cash-strapped blood. Treo 710: same as previous with Qwerty thumboard, Bluetooth, 64 Mb, .3 MP camera, $450. Treo 720: same as previous with 128 Mb, wi-fi, 2.1 MP camera, $650. Treo 730: previous with 128 Mb, 3.2 MP, $700. Actually, any two of these will do, so long as there are at least two new Treos on the market simultaneously. And stand up to the carriers; they need you.
    (2) Advertise: Let the public know you exist! Half of the people I run into have no clue what that silver thing I keep poking is. And it plays music? Holy ****, thatís awesome! And it does that? Mother of pearl! You get the idea, people have to know what the Treo can do. The only place I see ads for the Treo 650 is on Palm sites. Well, donít you think those people already have a Palm? You have to draw in a larger customer base. Advertise on other technology websites, particularly help and sales sites. It does little good to try and sell Treo 650s on www.palminfocenter.com. Really, Iím serious. And while youíre at it, pony up and advertise on national television. Partner up with carriers (what I said earlier doesnít apply here) and get out on NBC, CBS, ABC, etc and show Joe Shmoe what the Treo can do. While youíre at it, fire everybody in marketing.
    (3) Appeal to your base: Aside from the Zire line, whatís your ratio of first-time purchasers to upgrading customers. I have no hard figures, but Iím willing to bet that a large part of pa1mOneís business comes from us Ďpower-usersí and our spreading of the word. We need to be satisfied, as this board an others evidence. I know several who have switched to or started on PPC simply because there are more choices. We want our goodies, dammit!
    (4) Diversify: Not your stock portfolio. We donít want to talk about that right now. Diversify your product line. And Iím also not talking about the rumored switch to Windows Mobile. Make more! A ĎTreo familyí has been touted so many times by pa1mOne, and thus yet the only ones weíve seen are the 600 and 650. Father Revolution and Son Improvement. Whereís Mother Appeal and Uncle Extraordinaire? Make more! I can guarantee you that if you make any low-level Treo, those users will upgrade to the upper-tier. I guaran-****iní-tee it. Ask me what my first Palm was. It was an m100, whoopeedoo. Iím sure you sold plenty of those to schmucks like me. But I hoked, and ended up buying a Tungsten T, and then a T3. And despite its shortcomings, Iím drooling over the Treo 650.
    (5) Donít disappoint us again: The Palm community has suffered to many disappointments at the hand of Palm/pa1mOne. Need I rattle them off? ::cough, Palm VII, m1xx, m5xx, Tungsten T2, Tungsten T5, Treo 650, cough:: Excuse me, I seem to have a cold. Anyway, the technology world is one where we NEED to be wowed for your product to sell. Windows ME, anybody remember that thing? Iím not trying to say that the Treo 650 is anything like ME (I wonít try and say that about the T5, though), but isnít anything like the Palm community anticipated, or wanted. NVFS good, Yay! Cheering! No more data loss! Only 23 Mb, and less really useable. You make me sad. Your next rollout better be damn good, or pa1mOne will be in a world of hurt.
    I wonder if pa1mOne has given any thought to the recent moves by PalmSource. Itís obvious that PalmSource has done the same with their hardware-oriented brother, and has seen that they are standing on the bleeding edge. Thatís not where you want to be; you want to be ahead of the bleeding edge. Why do you think PalmSource is looking at branching out onto Linux? They see it, and I see it too, unless pa1mOne pulls themselves together, and does so quick, Palm could die with them.
    "'Form follows function' ó that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  2. #2  
    PalmOne's future lies with releasing a PPC device.

    Without that, they are sunk.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    PalmOne's future lies with releasing a PPC device.

    Without that, they are sunk.
    Please don't say that! The Palm platform as a whole is waiting to be unleashed on the public. pa1mOne just needs to get out there and do it!
    "'Form follows function' ó that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  4. #4  
    Palmone future is the Treo line and expanding it into different lines/segments irregardless of platform makes sense from a OS agnostic perspective (even though I'm palmos biased). That said, the pda market is not going anywhere! It's a mature segment and is not growing at the rate of smartphone segment...but that doesn't P1 will abandon pdas! They would be stupid if they did. I expect by the end of next year there will be at least min two Treo lines (lower and higher end) and perhaps even one using an alternate OS. I think we will also finally see a Cobalt based device from PalmOne (mabe a dual wireless "T6" with 1 GB Nand) and new zires as well. I also hope that the Palm Linux announcement from PalmSource means will finally see some additional big name lisencees to compete with PalmOne. (Please no more Ningo Birds and etc!) I want to see at least one big name smartphone lisencee like Sanyo or Moto perhaps (they already have a smartphones using linux) and another major PDA lisencee. I also hope to see a new Tapwave Zodiac model...I hope that companies stays around for a while and perhaps some new clie models from Sony in Japan...we'll see....
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  5. #5  
    I'd imagine that P1 has a line of Treos heading our way. At least that's what they say - a "family" or some such word. True, P1 seems to bring out some of the wierdest "upgrades" and seems to get mad at us when we point out to them why we won't spend $650 bucks this year on them - rather than acknowledging that there's a market for "power users" or whatever they want to label people who actually buy, use and promote their devices regularly.

    Maybe the fact their stock recently went down 20% in value will have some of the less innovative dead-wood at P1 getting pink slips soon. Truly they need a renaissance. But present business practices usually mean cutting the innovators and R&D and promoting the people who can sell the same old garbage with different packaging (Zire 72 "special edition" anyone?).

    I understand the need to play it conservative, but underpowering the memory isn't the road to success. It kills off innovation from 3rd party developers who are stuck downsizing their programs and designing hacks to load as much as they can onto the SD card (ie: Documents To Go - a product packaged with the Treo 650!). It kills off interest from "power users" and other knowledgeable people - as they KNOW how much memory is necessary for stable running and future usage - and aren't fooled by PalmOne's slick commercials. And overall it kills off future innovation in hardware as the lackluster sales justify skimping or eliminating features down the road.

    Also - WTF is with eliminating vibrating alarms on the $400 T5, anyway? Whomever did the cost/benefit analysis on that feature needs a severe slap.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    It kills off interest from "power users" and other knowledgeable people - as they KNOW how much memory is necessary for stable running and future usage - and aren't fooled by PalmOne's slick commercials. And overall it kills off future innovation in hardware as the lackluster sales justify skimping or eliminating features down the road.
    It is a vicious cycle of sorts. pa1mOne falls behind, blames x person/group, replaces/eliminates x person/group. Marketing takes over and puts out x lackluster device. Palm standbys become frustrated and give up, less personal promotion. pa1mOne falls even farther behind and the cycle repeats and amplifies itself.
    Can we please get somebody like Steve Jobs to take over pa1mOne?
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    Also - WTF is with eliminating vibrating alarms on the $400 T5, anyway? Whomever did the cost/benefit analysis on that feature needs a severe slap.
    That's a move that made my head spin. If any of the original Palm creators are dead, I'm sure that they're still spinning in their respective graves from that one.
    Last edited by Derek Kessler; 12/17/2004 at 10:43 PM.
    "'Form follows function' ó that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  7. #7  
    Great ideas and products mean little if the right people aren't in place. aka P1
    Last edited by JTREOB; 12/18/2004 at 01:32 AM.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Great ideas and products mean little if the right people are aren't in place. aka P1
    My point exactly. We need some shuffling in pa1mOne's upper echelons. I'm not saying that heads must roll, but...
    "'Form follows function' ó that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  9. #9  
    captain hair, I agree with you. I also must point out that your post sounds a lot like something the Apprentice candidate"raj" would have said while giving advice to trump on what to do about a new product release. - "pony up".
  10. #10  
    I guess I have to disagree here. No offense, but what do some of you do for a living? While Shadowmite has done some helpful stuff here, how do you think it has shown P1 to be lying/incompetent?

    1.) He re-enabled DUN. Who do you think put it there in the first place? P1? Who do you think disabled it? Sprint. Does it have some bugs? Yes. A large corporation can't knowingly release flawed stuff, in this case it was something they could patch later. This stuff takes testing (and time).

    2.) Wifi Drivers. Personally I think alot of you are obsessed with this. I'm getting a smartphone and I couldn't care less about this. For those that want it great. Shadowmite has given a solution that requires a hard reset to re-enable vision. While I applaud his work, do any of you think this is acceptable? If so, I hope I'm not using any products you worked on. I think P1's explanation that it requires additional work to get this done is correct.

    The market didn't slap P1 because the Treo sucks or because it doesn't have enough power features, etc.. They did it because P1 said they will have lower revenue. There are two factors here:

    1.) Traditional PDA sales are falling and will be less from the holidays than expected. P1 still has at least 1/2 their revenues there. This alone would cause the revenue drop.

    2.) P1 is seeing either slower adoption by the GSM carriers or other problems. These are very complex devices and gettng them right is hard. I personally don't think other vendors have come even close to getting it as right as P1 has. And none of this has to do with adding power features or wifi, etc.. The Treo already has enough features and power to outdo probably 95% of the people who buy it. They need to concentrate on getting more models (a family) and speeding adoption by carriers. For all this b****ing about wifi, what do you think the carriers are telling them? I'm sure all but T-Mobile are telling them to not do it (T-Mobile only wants it to sell you hotspot access).

    Sorry to come across sounding nasty, but there are competent people there. Alot of what they need to do is not totally in their control. To be honest for P1 to grow in many respects they need to listen to the issues from enthusiest sites like TreoCentral less, and customers like Joe Sprint and Bob Cingular more. In the end the 1000 Joes and 1500 Bobs will determine their future more than the dozen of TCers by comparison.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  11. #11  
    Re: OP's post

    The Tungsten sucess came about for one reason and one reason only: SONY!!!!
    They were making P1 devices look silly by comparison, so P1 went out and got some Sony engineers. There's no Sony-type competitor among POS smartphones. If the Dell rumors are true, that's fantastic. Finally, someone to hold P1 accountable.

    One of the problems is, if you went to the Roadshow, you would have seen P1 employees that seemed like they were using the Treos reluctantly. I'd guess that more than 80pct of them don't have more than 5 apps installed. And out of the box, the Treo is not that hot.

    Also, P1 mgmt really does not appear to care about their stock price.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  12. #12  
    "Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    I guess I have to disagree here. No offense, but what do some of you do for a living? While Shadowmite has done some helpful stuff here, how do you think it has shown P1 to be lying/incompetent?
    Well, for one, pa1mOne did explicitly state that wi-fi was going to be difficult because it would interfere with the radio, which as we have discovered, is not true. I work as an upper-level administrator of a state-wide music store. And I did not say incompetent, by the way, although it seems they are quiet misguided.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    1.) He re-enabled DUN. Who do you think put it there in the first place? P1? Who do you think disabled it? Sprint. Does it have some bugs? Yes. A large corporation can't knowingly release flawed stuff, in this case it was something they could patch later. This stuff takes testing (and time).
    According to pa1mOne, the Treo 650 underwent the longest beta test period of any palm ever. That's either (1) Another lie, OR (2) the lousiest beta testing I've ever seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    2.) Wifi Drivers. Personally I think alot of you are obsessed with this. I'm getting a smartphone and I couldn't care less about this. For those that want it great. Shadowmite has given a solution that requires a hard reset to re-enable vision. While I applaud his work, do any of you think this is acceptable? If so, I hope I'm not using any products you worked on. I think P1's explanation that it requires additional work to get this done is correct.
    Obsessed? No. I did watch the thread with interest and am looking forward to when either shadowmite or pa1mOne releases stable drivers that do not cause the afore metioned hard reset. I would agree that its not quite ready for primetime, but if shadowmite can do what he did in the time that it took him, what's taking pa1mOne so long?
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    The market didn't slap P1 because the Treo sucks or because it doesn't have enough power features, etc.. They did it because P1 said they will have lower revenue. There are two factors here:
    Agreed. But I am suspect that those who are invested in pa1mOne are at least somewhat knowledgeable as to what the company does. If they've been watching the news on the Treo 650 and subsequent user reactions, along with the T5, it looks like pa1mOne is in hot water. So for the company to come out and say that revenue (hence profits, hence stock payoffs) will be lower, people become hesitant/scared and dump or don't invest in pa1mOne.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    1.) Traditional PDA sales are falling and will be less from the holidays than expected. P1 still has at least 1/2 their revenues there. This alone would cause the revenue drop.
    Agreed, but that's not what investors want to hear: "The product we built our company on is a shrinking market. Buy my stock" Yeah, I know, oversimplification, but that's just the way I work.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    2.) P1 is seeing either slower adoption by the GSM carriers or other problems. These are very complex devices and gettng them right is hard. I personally don't think other vendors have come even close to getting it as right as P1 has. And none of this has to do with adding power features or wifi, etc.. The Treo already has enough features and power to outdo probably 95% of the people who buy it. They need to concentrate on getting more models (a family) and speeding adoption by carriers. For all this b****ing about wifi, what do you think the carriers are telling them? I'm sure all but T-Mobile are telling them to not do it (T-Mobile only wants it to sell you hotspot access).
    Quite true, but as I said above, the Treo 650 was in beta testing for a long long time. They really should have been gotten more right before it was released. I agree that other PDA manufacturers are a step behind pa1mOne in the smartphone aspect (good thing they bought Handspring), but Joe Schmoe first-time-smartphone-buyer likely knows nothing of how pa1mOne compares to HP and company. When you research something you know nothing about, and find that people who are familiar with it are more or less dissatisfied, and then you sit down and do a feature by feature comparison, it looks as if the Treo is behind the curve.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    Sorry to come across sounding nasty, but there are competent people there. Alot of what they need to do is not totally in their control. To be honest for P1 to grow in many respects they need to listen to the issues from enthusiest sites like TreoCentral less, and customers like Joe Sprint and Bob Cingular more. In the end the 1000 Joes and 1500 Bobs will determine their future more than the dozen of TCers by comparison.
    I didn't see any nasty, so I'll forgive you for disagree with me. I guess I don't have much of a choice, do I? However, you seem to be agreeing with me here: pa1mOne MUST open their eyes and see what everybody thinks, not just the power-users or cellular CEOS or Joe Schmoe, everybody.
    "'Form follows function' ó that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny
    Re: OP's post

    The Tungsten sucess came about for one reason and one reason only: SONY!!!!
    They were making P1 devices look silly by comparison, so P1 went out and got some Sony engineers. There's no Sony-type competitor among POS smartphones. If the Dell rumors are true, that's fantastic. Finally, someone to hold P1 accountable.
    Yes, I agree that one of pa1mOne's problems, and a major one at that, is that there is very little competition on the Palm side. It's pa1mOne, Tapwave, Garmin, Acer, Dana, Who?
    They really need a company that will make pa1mOne's stuff look like ****. Excuse my language, it's the Army in me. Anyway, let me give an example from my field of work, instrumental music business.
    Just ten years ago, Yamaha began production of musical instruments (I mean flute, saxophone, trumpet, etc, not electric guitar and keyboards). They were CRAP, nobody wanted to play on a Yamaha, and the school band directors we worked with begged us to do something with the Yamahas their kids had bought from other stores. We couldn't do anything, as we would never be able to, or bring ourselves to, sell them. Yamaha was the laughing stock of the music industry, which consisted of giants like Conn, Selmer, UMI, Bach, etc.
    Yamaha had recieved more than a swift kick in the pants. So, they did some research, finding that the afore mentioned manufacturers were reaping massive profits due to overpricing. There was hardly any competition (each of those companies specialized in a seperate area of instrumentation), so they could charge whatever the consumer was willing to pay.
    Five years ago, Yamaha came a-knockin' on our door. They had completely revamps their entire product line, built brand-spankin' new factories, and claimed to have produced instruments worthy of competing with the giants. We laughed, but decided the try them out anyway. Wow, were we wrong. Yamaha had made a COMPLETE turn around and was now producing instruments over better-quality than the others, and they were charging less! Everybody else was left in the dust as nearly 60% of our school contracts switched from x brand to Yamaha. Yamaha is now our biggest seller, in every category, be it flutes, clarinets, saxophones, or trombones, beginning or advanced. The other companies were so damaged by the uprising of Yamaha that the main competitor is now a merged Conn-Selmer (containing several other little manufacturers).
    Here's how this equates to pa1mOne: Just like the PDA business, all of the music industry is in fact very small, it's just readily visible. pa1mOne's biggest competition in the Palm market is a rag tag bunch of no name companies that have yet to pull themselves together (read: Yamaha). It's only a matter of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by skfny
    One of the problems is, if you went to the Roadshow, you would have seen P1 employees that seemed like they were using the Treos reluctantly. I'd guess that more than 80pct of them don't have more than 5 apps installed. And out of the box, the Treo is not that hot.

    Also, P1 mgmt really does not appear to care about their stock price.
    Sadly, I was unable to attend a roadshow, but that is a sad story you tell. I definently does not look good when your own employees have no faith in their own product. And management will care about the stock prices if they continue to fall. Even if pa1mOne is selling Treos faster than McDonalds sells Big Macs, falling stock prices make your company look bad. Look at Microsoft: they played it rough, and became the industry's only giant. Along came the mostly unfounded antitrust lawsuits "How dare you give out free stuff!" "Show me your source code!" and Microsoft stock prices plummeted. Microsoft is still here today, but for a time, it looked like they were in hot water.
    "'Form follows function' ó that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    ....... P1 seems to bring out some of the wierdest "upgrades" and seems to get mad at us when we point out to them why we won't spend $650 bucks this year on them - rather than acknowledging that there's a market for "power users" or whatever they want to label people who actually buy, use and promote their devices regularly.

    Maybe the fact their stock recently went down 20% in value will have some of the less innovative dead-wood at P1 getting pink slips soon. Truly they need a renaissance. .......I understand the need to play it conservative, but underpowering the memory isn't the road to success. It kills off innovation from 3rd party developers who are stuck downsizing their programs and designing hacks to load as much as they can onto the SD card (ie: Documents To Go - a product packaged with the Treo 650!). It kills off interest from "power users" and other knowledgeable people - as they KNOW how much memory is necessary for stable running and future usage - and aren't fooled by PalmOne's slick commercials. And overall it kills off future innovation in hardware as the lackluster sales justify skimping or eliminating features down the road.
    Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the 22% drop in PLMO stock yesterday.

    Look, I like the TREO concept; we all do or we wouldn't be bothering to read and post here on TREO CENTRAL. Right? But PalmOne has gotta get its act together. They BOUGHT the TREO from Handspring, and I guess it was supposed to be their "reniassance" product. They didn't quite advance it enough in their own first attempt at a revision, especially with the memory thing, and then they want to slap at the "power users" that really buy their stuff in the first place!

    I am not a power user; I just need it to do what it's supposed to do, like be a phone that people can understand me on when I call them. (Sometimes people can't understand me when I'm two feet away from them, but that's another story.)

    I think you good people here like the Captain are on the right track. For PalmOne to survive, they have to listen to you. Otherwise, who else is gonna buy there stuff? They can't send out phones where you can't be heard or understood, and then play spy-games with repairs. This is making me consider the Siemens SX-66, and I really, really, REALLY didn't want to go the PPC route. Listen up, PalmOne: your CUSTOMERS are talking! Can you hear them now?????
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by GWB
    Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the 22% drop in PLMO stock yesterday.

    Look, I like the TREO concept; we all do or we wouldn't be bothering to read and post here on TREO CENTRAL. Right? But PalmOne has gotta get its act together. They BOUGHT the TREO from Handspring, and I guess it was supposed to be their "reniassance" product. They didn't quite advance it enough in their own first attempt at a revision, especially with the memory thing, and then they want to slap at the "power users" that really buy their stuff in the first place!

    I am not a power user; I just need it to do what it's supposed to do, like be a phone that people can understand me on when I call them. (Sometimes people can't understand me when I'm two feet away from them, but that's another story.)

    I think you good people here like the Captain are on the right track. For PalmOne to survive, they have to listen to you. Otherwise, who else is gonna buy there stuff? They can't send out phones where you can't be heard or understood, and then play spy-games with repairs. This is making me consider the Siemens SX-66, and I really, really, REALLY didn't want to go the PPC route. Listen up, PalmOne: your CUSTOMERS are talking! Can you hear them now?????
    I'm still not convinced that what they're doing is so bad for business. I mean, the lack of memory, the sound quality problem, and not releasing the wifi drivers seem to be the biggest problem in everyone's opinions.

    OK...

    First, the memory is approx. 33% less of the measily memory "power users" would expect, but 800% more memory than the former "dumbphone users" would expect. It's really not so bad since most, if not all, will use the SD car, they immediately have a work around for 99% of the programs. Doctors and a few niche users who need some special programs probably shouldn't use the Treo until the end of its life cycle to make sure they have a reliable product...and also, doctors would probably prefer a larger screen (like VGA large). On top of the memory problem, PalmOne is giving out free 128MB cards to those who request them. Not bad since not everybody's gonna request them, they'll save money (and also guarantee an upgrade to the treo 700 because the current 23MB REALLY isn't enough anymore). And going even further, they will probably release a fix to the NVFS huge chunk storage problem, giving the users 50% more internal memory than they were used to, and hopefully fixing speed issues as well.

    Second, the sound quality thing is the only mistake, in my opinion, made on palm's part. How could this have such a long beta testing and not even address how you SOUND on the phone. But, faisal has proven that a complete patch is in the works, so PalmOne's gettin' around to it, albeit a lil' slowly.

    Third, I wouldn't use Wifi on the Treo 650 because it's not worth it in my opinion. However, I don't understand why they didn't at least release the "rough" wifi driver that shadowmite was capable of producing so that those who REALLY wanted wifi could reset it. If shadowmite does come out with a "clean" wifi driver before PalmOne does, then we know it was because they ain't got no hackin' skills (doubt it, but who knows, from the performance of some palm "base" apps, it appears they might be degrading with time) or carrier restraints (every carrier DOES IN DEED have a warm liquid running down the inside of their legs...they scurred). VoIP would be the ONLY reason I would want wifi on my cell phone, because I would probably consider GIVING all of my friends wifi acess points because I already have one and so does my work, so that I could only be outside of wifi while i'm driving, but receive my voicemail as soon as i get back in wifi land. Then I'd save myself $70+ EVER SINGLE MONTH. That's like a free treo, and a few hundred bagsa 'tato chips every year in my mind, plus much faster data speeds than vision provides (but data speeds would only be a minor plus for me since vision really is fine enough, faster than dial up). But I don't think wifi will work that well with OS5 (int terms of a smartphone seamlessly switching wireless networks), so all VoIP hopes will probably have to wait for another year or, even more likely TWO years. AWW!!

    Anyway, after the first firmware upgrade is available, I think the stocks will continue the upward climb they were making before investors were running around yesterday with their heads chopped off.

    The three biggest things hurting PalmOne after these short term humps are overcome, though, is PalmSource's still unreleased Cobalt which will need to be worked out before put on a smartphone, continuing to grant Sprint a 1-2 month, exclusive introduction of the Treo, and their own long cycle release. The latter seems to me kills them the most because they'll never have a "family" until they release three at the same time, or within a few weeks of each other.

    -Peace out!
  17. #17  
    I guess what I wanted to point out (which I think grndslm is saying somewhat also) is that listening to power users on a place like TreoCentral is good for fixing bugs but not good for doing product development. Before you all get worked up, I've done product development marketing research (for software) and I think P1 knows what it's doing for the most part. I didn't attend the Treo roadshow that some here have, but I saw a video that someone posted of one they attended. One of the product managers for the Treo gave a part on how to do research development. At the beginning he talked about how they segment their users and what info they get from them. He was right in that the high end power users don't tell you how to develop a broad market product, and that is what we have on this board.

    I do think they have made errors, some in judgement, some in implementation. As I've said in other threads I think going to NVFS was absolutely right in the roadmap/strategic vision of what they need to do. I do think they were very short sighted in not having 64MB of memory, but it's very clear that their carrier partners were pounding them to get the price down and they did this for cost reasons. This will be easier for them to address once they can get a family of products available to cover different users. They need to do this ASAP, I have no idea how close they are this is the area I think they are most vulnerable.

    One last thought on Cobalt (I've seen mentioned here). The only info we have gotten on it has been very one sided from Palmsource who of course only says good things about it. I suspect there are MASSIVE problems with it. You don't think P1 would jump on this if it worked great? They want to sell more stuff more than any of us here want them to. I think Palmsource's announcement of using Linux is the real confirmation that there are real problems with Cobalt. Anyone here who is upset by apps that were broken with the Treo 650 should thank P1 for not using Cobalt. When I read Palmsource announcements about Cobalt, all I can see between the lines is that existing programs are probably going to be broken heavily in Cobalt. And as iceing on the cake, Palmsource says dear Mac users, you can't synch anymore (that's me)!.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  18. #18  
    Partially informed?

    More like misinformed.
  19. #19  
    For what it is worth, if it were not for the posts on this site, I would have already returned my 650. The resets caused by the blazer catch (solved by FileZ) and some of the other bugs are not acceptable for the general public. There are fixes here thanks to several people, but most folks don't read TC and will get frustrated and return the units over and over.

    Although I have not had the sound issue yet, its the same thing, folks here either have used the patch to help or are confident help is on the way. Average user has problem, calls support and gets no help at all. Perhaps gets a new phone, maybe that helps, maybe not. Apparantly mostly not.

    The point. P1 has some big problems not with the power users but with the first time palm customer or non-TC/tech type. Unlike the BB, the 650 can be an intimidating device for some even if it works correctly and the poor testing will cost them sales if they don't get their act together.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    Partially informed?

    More like misinformed.
    Seriously, dude, grow up.
    "'Form follows function' ó that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
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