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  1. #761  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    Well, yes. No registration is necessary, IF you're using them on the device they came on. I doubt seriously that the license for the Tungsten software authorized copying the software and installing it on other devices.

    I'm really kind of surprised Palm hasn't come down on this thread, and Shadowmite's web site, not just for distributing the ROM updater, but for distributing copyrighted code.


    On the subject of copyright, the gross misunderstandings of copyright epressed in some of the posts above are highly amusing. If you really don't think that object code encapsulated in ROM is copyright protected, ask yourself why Compaq spent so much money reverse engineering the IBM PC's ROM.

    Treocentral has been the source for the Treo 600 phone data hack, Treo 600 unlock hack, Treo 650 Bluetooth DUN hack, Treo 650 Wi-Fi hack, Treo 650 custom ROM hack, Treo 650 phone data hack and a lot more. Palm employees watch these threads regularly and have done squat. Do you think they're going to do anything now? (I am shocked that they've essentially ignored all these hacks, though. The carriers must be totally unimpressed with the security of the ROMs on these phones and pi$$ing off carriers is something Palm can ill afford to do. From now on, I'd be surprised to see any easily hackable code on future PalmOS phones.)

    Palm can't put the genie back into the bottle now - it's too late. The only thing they could do is come down hard on Treocentral for facilitating the exchange of ideas, but that would probably just backfire on them by pi$$ing off the power users Palm desperately needs to promote these expensive-as-he11 phones!

    As always, I Am Not A Lawyer (thank God!), even though I play one on TV.
  2. #762  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Could you please keep the legal discusssions out of the hacking thread? I have posted a note to palm at my web page informing them they have the right to ask me to take down the material, they have not done so. I would imagine they are mostly concerned with people breaking their phones. If someone provides verified working updates to keep the majority of people from "experimenting" then this is a minimal risk.

    In my opinion, as well as several of their marketing personel I'm sure, this is a valuable asset to keep the techno geeks happy with palm's products.

    As for the legality of re-distributing this material, lawyers can play a good game in either direction. So if you want to play "mock trial" please start a thread for it. This is not the place.
    I would like to second Shadowmite's comment. Start a legal thread or shut up. Who cares. we have the power now. Lets quit guessing about what could happen and just make use of it while we can. Palm is probably sitting back and smiling over all the work we are saving them.
  3. #763  
    Agreed,
    these guys are helping us all cook a product that was released half raw. I personally find it offensive to pay $600 hard earned dollars to beta test a product for PalmOne
    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  4. #764  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Could you please keep the legal discusssions out of the hacking thread? I have posted a note to palm at my web page informing them they have the right to ask me to take down the material, they have not done so. I would imagine they are mostly concerned with people breaking their phones. If someone provides verified working updates to keep the majority of people from "experimenting" then this is a minimal risk.

    In my opinion, as well as several of their marketing personel I'm sure, this is a valuable asset to keep the techno geeks happy with palm's products.

    As for the legality of re-distributing this material, lawyers can play a good game in either direction. So if you want to play "mock trial" please start a thread for it. This is not the place.
    Unfortunately shadowmite, we can't duck the legality issue. Treocentral could easily be liable if Palm decides to play hardball with this. If Sprint hears about what's happening, gets pi$$ed off and cancels an order, Palm will be forced to act in order to keep their most important customer happy.

    I had an acquaintance that works in a law firm take a look at the "disclaimer" you have posted on your site:

    "Disclaimer:
    Use of these files is at your own risk. The manufacturer, service provider, and creator of these files can not be held responsible under any circumstances due to your use of them. Furthermore, the use of these file could void your warranty or insurance polices (ask you provider if you are un-certain). They are for educational purposes only and should never be downloaded or used, EVER!


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Palm employees or contractors, some of the material I have posted here is your copyright. I have this on my page to help your business and customers to enjoy your products. If for some reason you want this material removed, just ask via the email link below. I hope you will allow me to continue, but by no means do I want to upset you. Thank you.
    "

    Unfortunately, this (contradictory) statement will not protect you from possible legal action. As someone who has seen more than their fair share of warez over the years, I found the line "They are for educational purposes only and should never be downloaded or used, EVER!" especially amusing. And using your own website just opened you up to a potential world of hurt, since now you're no longer anonymous. (Palm's lawyers can reach out and touch someone in, say Trenton, New Jersery just as easily as they can squeeze someone in the SillyCon Valley. If you want to be safe, the best advice would be to email Palm + Sprint and ask if it's ok to host the files. Let them know you want to do it because providing access to the files is helping prevent a lot of people from returning these phones.

    Right now only a few people know about your hack, so it may stay under Palm's/Sprint's radar. But if the story ever gets picked up by, say Slashdot or c|net, things could get ugly.

    Be careful.
  5. #765  
    I used a Shadowmite devolped ROM as instructed with seemingly good results. A day later, VersaMail will not work. When it is activated, I consistently get a reset. I had nor had any problems with VersaMail before.

    Any suggestions?

    edlaw
  6. #766  
    shadowmite - any update on finding the crash information inside the phone app?????

    Thanks,

    Jeff
  7. #767  
    Quote Originally Posted by edlaw
    I used a Shadowmite devolped ROM as instructed with seemingly good results. A day later, VersaMail will not work. When it is activated, I consistently get a reset. I had nor had any problems with VersaMail before.

    Any suggestions?

    edlaw
    Edlaw, I have had this happen to me MANY times also. I've found by hard resetting and starting over it works fine. It appears to be something a backup manager changes or something. Play with it and let us know if you get around it. I believe there are other threads about that problem...
  8. #768  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    shadowmite - any update on finding the crash information inside the phone app?????

    Thanks,

    Jeff
    Not yet, let me take a look...
  9. #769  
    can you guys shut up about the legal stuff...if palm is going to do something, they won't go straight to court and sue faisal, shadowmite, whoever else and treocentral....the immediate remedy is to tell shadowmite and others to immediatly remove the hacks (which I am sure shadowmite will do). Again, keep the legal crap out of this thread and quit being such pussies....keep up the good work hackers, I mean patchers!!!!!!
    Last edited by rjmoose; 12/22/2004 at 11:24 PM.
  10. #770  
    Shadowmite and others, my apologies for adding to the continued hijacking of this thread by the internet bar association and it's lackeys. I just couldn't not respond to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and Roses
    Unfortunately shadowmite, <snip>
    I had an acquaintance that works in a law firm take a look at the "disclaimer" you have posted on your site:<snip>


    Right now only a few people know about your hack, so it may stay under Palm's/Sprint's radar. But if the story ever gets picked up by, say Slashdot or c|net, things could get ugly.

    Be careful.
    Enough already. Cant you read? We've got the point. I'm now expecting Ally McBeal to chime in at any minute with some dancing Palm baby comment.

    Which "employee" at the law firm anyway, the janitor?

    If you had bothered to read this whole thread before giving us free legal advice you would know that this subject is HARDLY under Palm's radar and has long ago been reported to slashdot and others. Palm gave the rom loader to faisal so its safe to say they know about all this.

    Shadowmite is well aware of everything going on. Give it a rest. If you must continue to belabor the point OPEN ANOTHER THREAD. If you can't talk about the subject at hand, which is the hacking of the rom, please just STFU!!!

    Mods my apologies for getting testy
    Last edited by Woof; 12/22/2004 at 04:56 PM.
  11. #771  
    Here, Here, Woof!
  12. #772  
    Woof, Woof, Here.

    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  13. #773  
    ow-ow-ow-owhoooooooo!
  14. #774  
    Can anyone tell me which in-RAM files (if any) go with RealPlayer? I'm planning to install one of Shadowmite's stripped-down ROM images, after which I'll do a restore via Backupman. I want to be sure I don't include any orphaned RealPlayer items.

    Thanx!
    --
    "I'm too sexy for my code." - Awk Sed Fred
  15. #775  
    Go Woof!
  16. #776  
    quick and ignorant question: do all these modified hacks of the rom include the "audio quality" patch? I am not that well versed and simple "yes" or "no" will do.....thanks in advance
  17. #777  
    Yes, however once it's installed the first time it's never installed again. The loader we are using does 3/4 seperate flashes. It verifies each one to see if it's different than what's already installed, and if not skips it...
  18. #778  
    Quote Originally Posted by edlaw
    I used a Shadowmite devolped ROM as instructed with seemingly good results. A day later, VersaMail will not work. When it is activated, I consistently get a reset. I had nor had any problems with VersaMail before.

    Any suggestions?

    edlaw
    I haven't touched my ROM yet and I have this problem occasionally too. (And I DON'T have any backup software loaded) It's just one more reason I'm probably going to change to SnapperMail.

    As soon as Shadowmite releases his new boot loader that will prevent us from killing our phones so easliy, I'm going to replace VersaMail with SnapperMail.

    I would go ahead and re-ROM my Treo now, but I'm expecting Christmas presents that will require my Treo to be in WORKING order. So I'm not about to risk killing it over a couple megs of space. (Although it's getting harder and harder to resist.)

    --TechDude
  19. #779  
    I'd like to second what TechDude said, messing with these roms yourselves is very risky. If you want to run one I have made, or someone else already verified as working, that's one thing. But trying to create your own is a risk of killing your phone. I'm getting a few private emails now from various people who have killed their phones.

    I'm sure Sprint and Palm will start to get upset about this unless we can show some control and not use warranty replacements for user error. Please, if you are not 100% confident in your abilties, don't do it! I'm sure if a hundred treo's come in with bad rom flashes they WILL ask me to remove the flashes at my page. And that will make it hard to continue various other projects.

    If someone with VBVBVB $skills$ $could$ $write$ $up$ $a$ $zip$ $enabled$ $program$ $that$ $will$ $auto$-$build$ $these$ $roms$, $that$ $would$ $help$... ($I$ $don$'$t$ $have$ $the$ $time$).

    ---

    As for the fix I am working on, it's not a new bootloader, but a method which to use a serial/usb(doubtful) cable to connect to the phones bootloader and re-flash when it won't boot. Most likely this will require everyone to build a serial cable, or send the dead phone to someone with one to get it re-flashed. This is the proper method of dealing with this, not making palm pay for our experimentation. Please keep this orderly and don't abuse it!
  20. #780  
    Sorry, I was referring to post 690 on page 35:

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    I'm going to be working to get a custom bootloader flashed on the phone, once that's done it won't be possible to kill them with these custom roms. Until then, be careful!
    I thought that was what you were working on.... any idea when the new bootloader might happen? I'm pretty confident in my skills, but since Christmas is only a few days away I figured I'd just play it safe for a few days. (until after I'm done playing with my Treo accessories and such. ) But if the new boot loader isn't going to happen any time soon, then I'll probably re-ROM my Treo next week sometime.

    Thanks for all the hard work... by the way... did you see my post back on page 36 about Snapper and WebPro/Blazer? I'm anxious to know if this makes any sense to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TechDude
    ...Several post ago you mentioned that programs that try to alter their executable upon registration would not work in ROM becasue they could not write to themselves. Why couldn't we just register these apps in RAM, sync the files back over to the PC, and then used the registered files in our ROMs? Will this not work?

    I may have to stop watching this thread soon... it's getting harder and harder to resist the tmeptation to play with the ROM.

    BTW, if we ever get a better browser than Blazer (Web Pro 3.5?), is it possible to get rid of Blazer as well? Or is that another one of those programs that is required for boot or something?
    --TechDude

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