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  1. #21  
    What is wiht?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by wesmmats
    wiht?
    A spelling error that's been corrected!
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  3. #23  
    AlbertB, you make great arguments for waste and inefficiency.. congratulations on these useful insights. The previous posts confirm my points on the lame connector... and by the way, I have a masters in industrial design, an MBA from a top 10 school and I am a CEO of the leading software company in our space... my third gig as CEO in venture capital funded deals. You don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyparanoid
    Now, I am no economy major, but I just don't beleive you are right here. I am not saying making something to break is a good economic decision, BUT...If they made the cord so that it never broke and never needed replacing or upgrading they would only ever sell one cord to me. By making it change every couple of years or wear out after a while or break after a certain amount of stress they insure that I will buy another. You can't tell me that a company selling more of something is not good economic sense. Sure I will be a at a sort of loss, but that is only if I expected that one purchase to last forever. I for one do not buy a cell phone with the intention that is going to be the only one I buy ever.

    Plus, if they are making more products and selling more products then they need more material, more man hours and thus they are paying more to workers for that production which in turn is put into taxes and consumer goods....It is a cycle, no?
    I know that this is not an economics board, but as an economics professor I can't let this go without a reference. Your quote is an example of Frédéric Bastiat's "Broken Window Fallacy." See here:

    http://www.fact-index.com/p/pa/parab...en_window.html

    I doubt that PalmOne's road to success is paved with shoddy or poorly-engineered equipment.
  5. #25  
    I have no issues with companies making parts proprietary to be inovative in core value-add areas. For parts like power cords, there is little value to add by doing something non-standard, and certainly it isn't why a customer buys the product. Imagine the mess we'd have if every computer used different cables.

    In my humble opinion, a stragety to build a business by making proprietary non-core parts holds back the company and doesn't serve the customer.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl
    I know that this is not an economics board, but as an economics professor I can't let this go without a reference. Your quote is an example of Frédéric Bastiat's "Broken Window Fallacy." See here:

    http://www.fact-index.com/p/pa/parab...en_window.html

    I doubt that PalmOne's road to success is paved with shoddy or poorly-engineered equipment.
    How many Palms have you owned? Every Palm released for the past 7 years has had one issue or another...

    The economics argument not-withstanding, (I read the reference and would say that it is not completely in line with the example here, but on target enough that I understand why it was referenced. Specifically the reference is talking about an item being damaged through a malicious act not a planned, finite life span or period until obsolescence as I am indicating)

    Then tell me this. Why is the cord not made better? Shouldn't be price point IMO, I have a power cord for my pc that cost $3, has lasted me the past 3 pc's, most arruredly will not break. The one for my Treo looks to break if I sneeze at it.

    I know enough about my lack of education in graduate level economic theory then to argue the economics point and will take it that I just do not have the education in economics to grasp it completely. I am a smart enough man to know that, but as an aircraft mechanic for 16 years I know cables, connectors and the like.

    That cable could be made much, much, much more robust and easier to use. A cost stand point doesn't hold water either (IMO). Suppliers or vendors? Nah, I don't believe that for a minute.

    There is no incentive for them to build a strong robust cable connector that will last a life time. If they did that, they would never sell another cable or they would have to sell it at a significantly higher price.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyparanoid
    How many Palms have you owned? Every Palm released for the past 7 years has had one issue or another...

    The economics argument not-withstanding, (I read the reference and would say that it is not completely in line with the example here, but on target enough that I understand why it was referenced. Specifically the reference is talking about an item being damaged through a malicious act not a planned, finite life span or period until obsolescence as I am indicating)

    Then tell me this. Why is the cord not made better? Shouldn't be price point IMO, I have a power cord for my pc that cost $3, has lasted me the past 3 pc's, most arruredly will not break. The one for my Treo looks to break if I sneeze at it.

    I know enough about my lack of education in graduate level economic theory then to argue the economics point and will take it that I just do not have the education in economics to grasp it completely. I am a smart enough man to know that, but as an aircraft mechanic for 16 years I know cables, connectors and the like.

    That cable could be made much, much, much more robust and easier to use. A cost stand point doesn't hold water either (IMO). Suppliers or vendors? Nah, I don't believe that for a minute.

    There is no incentive for them to build a strong robust cable connector that will last a life time. If they did that, they would never sell another cable or they would have to sell it at a significantly higher price.
    My reference to the broken window fallacy was primarily to refute the idea that planned obsolescence (or some other event that renders a product useless) is good for society because it promotes economic activity; this idea is clearly wrong, since it fails to consider the opportunity cost of scarce resources.

    It is not as certain, however, that planned obsolescence from the point of view of a single firm is a bad idea. This depends in part upon the loyalty of the customers, and loyalty depends in part upon the number of competitors that the firm has. If my PalmOne cable fails, I will buy another one. But I probably will not buy it from PalmOne, since there are many other options.

    As to the question "Why is the cord not made better?" you dismiss the cost factor. Yet consider these issues:
    1. PalmOne could have spent an extra $6 and increased the ram to 64mb on the 650.
    2. PalmOne could have spent $2 or so to include a slipcase (as they did with the 600).
    3. PalmOne could have spent more time and dollars hardware testing and market testing the 650 and they would have found many of the problems discussed in this forum.

    In January 2004 PalmOne laid off 12% of its workforce as a cost-cutting measure. Perhaps Treocentral member 'eclipse' was on target when he wrote earlier in this thread "I really wonder who the hell makes these decisions at P1... it sure is not a competent product engineer, that is for sure. Add that to meager memory as another easily avoided flaw." Maybe the competent engineers were laid off to cut costs.

    The CDMA 650 is rife with problems that irritate customers, that make a mockery of the Zen of Palm, and that very nearly caused me to return it. I have owned a PalmPilot, a Palm IIIxe, a Handspring Visor, a Handspring Visor Prism with phone, a Treo 300, and a Treo 650. In my humble personal experience, my Treo 650 has been the most problematic BY FAR. I will certainly not buy the Treo 700 (or whatever the next iteration is named) before I check out other options more carefully. In other words, PalmOne, having earned my loyalty with the PalmPilot, has lost it with the 650. PalmOne has delayed the GSM rollout of the 650 and is scrambling to fix the product, because they know that a successful rollout of the GSM 650 is vital to their very survival as an independent company.

    So why is the cord not made better? One of many PalmOne mistakes--a small one, but indicative of decision-making problems that may doom the company. As a certified gadget nut, I hope that they turn things around.
  8. #28  
    Hey, I got laughed off this board when I railed they needed to just use the USB D connector end and be done with it. If you can syn/charge with third party cables now, then there HAS to be enough service lines for the job. And for those who scream that some USB ports don't deliver enough power, add a "plug-in" to the USB connector side for auxiliary power transformer (BARREL ONLY) and make them happy as well.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl
    PalmOne has delayed the GSM rollout of the 650 and is scrambling to fix the product, because they know that a successful rollout of the GSM 650 is vital to their very survival as an independent company.
    I don't think this is a completely accurate statement. Yes Palmone is making patched to fix the shortcomings but they are not delaying for that reason. Palmone never announced a GSM rollout date therefore no one can claim that it has been delayed. When they produced the 600, they had ROM updated for all carriers - it just means that they are improving the functionality of the product, or fixing what they missed.
    The situation was the same with the 600, they release to Sprint first, probably because of agreements they have in place with Sprint (I could be wrong, but that is what I have heard many times) and then for GSM carriers months later.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by eclipse
    AlbertB, you make great arguments for waste and inefficiency.. congratulations on these useful insights. The previous posts confirm my points on the lame connector... and by the way, I have a masters in industrial design, an MBA from a top 10 school and I am a CEO of the leading software company in our space... my third gig as CEO in venture capital funded deals. You don't know what you are talking about.
    Congratulations on your degrees and success in life. That's sincere, not sarcastic, it's always great to hear success stories.

    That being said, that was just my point of view, and this is yours. If you say I have no idea what I am talking about, maybe you can educate me and tell me why I am wrong. Pointing out your education and titles does not make me wrong, and does not mean that anything you say will be held over anything others say that don't have the same background (not that you know my background).

    Please don't cite the one or two broken connectors that you have heard about, as we can cite many broken connectors for standard chargers as well which will not bring us any closer to either side of the arguement.
  11. #31  
    I have a speaker/ car charger for sanyo 8100 and it works. The only problem is that the connector on the 650 is designed so poorly that it comes off when I use the phone. But atleast it charges.
    Last edited by aznmode; 01/10/2005 at 12:54 AM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dorp7
    wireless charging is a great idea - my electric toothbrush charges this way. You would need a specialized cradle and hardware in the base of the device to act as a mini transformer. I don't know how feasible it is in a phone, but it would be cool.
    http://www.splashpower.com/solution/overview.html

    No idea how well it works.
    "There has always been a tension in conservatism between those who favor more liberty and those who want more morality. But what's indisputable is that Bush's 'compassionate conservatism' is a move toward the latter - the use of the government to impose and subsidize certain morals over others. He is fusing big government liberalism with religious right moralism. It's the nanny-state with more cash." -- www.AndrewSullivan.com
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