View Poll Results: What do you think of the problems with the T650?

Voters
72. You may not vote on this poll
  • The T650 is fine, these are short-term issues

    35 48.61%
  • We need to get a Palm to fix the problems

    26 36.11%
  • There are software fixes

    2 2.78%
  • The T650 is a disaster, I am returning mine.

    9 12.50%
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  1.    #1  
    I am perplexed. The hardware on the T650 looks like a partial attempt to upgrade the T600 and create it as something that is more compatible with the Palm line by sharing a connector. Otherwise, the implementation seems TERRIBLE!

    New features

    Even the new features are poorly implimented.

    Blutooth: Has someone found a headset that works? The Jabra that PalmOne bundels sucks.

    Screen: Bright is good but the touchscreen is trerrible. Most buttons do not work, try htting thre # button fromt he keyboard.

    Memory: Maybe the NVFS is great, I hope so because the useable memeory is probably 10 mb LESS than the 600.

    Old features

    Graffiti gone, Jot @ $50 ... barely works

    Synch by USB: ... no longer works

    D-Pad ... less useable than before.

    New problems

    screen delay
    inadequate memory for addins

    New features that work

    Daylight viewable screen
    Improved browser
    Improved canera but can't store to SD card so ne mmeory for pix!
    VASTLY IMPROVED PRPRPR!

    OPINIONS

    1. This post is FOS
    2. We should launch a campaign to get Palm to replace these with an upgraded phone
    3. There are SW fixes for all of this.
    4. Use it long enough and you will forget your gripes.
  2. #2  
    weird post. i'm not even sure if it's serious, to tell the truth. some minor, possibly rube, responses below.



    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    I am perplexed. The hardware on the T650 looks like a partial attempt to upgrade the T600 and create it as something that is more compatible with the Palm line by sharing a connector. Otherwise, the implementation seems TERRIBLE!

    New features

    Even the new features are poorly implimented.

    Blutooth: Has someone found a headset that works? The Jabra that PalmOne bundels sucks.
    can't speak to that myself. i bought a bluetooth usb dongle to try and to DUN, but have had poor luck. mostly on the PC side. some on the treo side. since it's a hack, who knows.

    Screen: Bright is good but the touchscreen is trerrible. Most buttons do not work, try htting thre # button fromt he keyboard.
    hmm. my screen is bright, four times the resolution of the T600, and the touchscreen works perfectly. most buttons do not work? huh? i thought this was the screen you were talking about? as to the keyboard, all of my keys work perfectly. no problems at all.

    Memory: Maybe the NVFS is great, I hope so because the useable memeory is probably 10 mb LESS than the 600.
    yup. less memory. i have only 13.4 megs free. i have most of my apps on SD card. works fine. it's a workaround, but it does work. T650's at compusa are $200 off, and include a 512M SD card. that is, if you want to risk dealing with compusa for an expensive purchase, which i would never do. small things, a stick of ram in a pinch, sure, but high ticket items? no way. they can eat me if they think i'm paying a 15% restocking fee on a $600 item.

    Old features

    Graffiti gone, Jot @ $50 ... barely works
    uh. ok. it didn't work on the T600, so i don't get your point. i installed grafitti anywhere, and wound up just deleting it. the keyboard is excellent. no need for grafitti at all any more.

    Synch by USB: ... no longer works
    now's where i start to think this post must be a joke. what's wrong with sync via USB?

    D-Pad ... less useable than before.
    finally, an item we agree upon! i preferred the slightly larger 5way of the T600, for the brief time i had one. it had a surer click and feel to it. but the difference is pretty minor.

    New problems

    screen delay
    inadequate memory for addins
    since doing a hard reset and adding apps back, rather than the stupid initial hotsync i did with my T600 stuff, my screen delays are a fraction of what they were. not even an issue any more. the more questionable third-party apps i add back, the less stable the T650 gets.

    yes, too little memory. palm are major boneheads for not making it 64megs. dumb, dumb, dumb.

    still not sure if i'm a rube for even responding.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  3. #3  
    In addition to what anastrophe said, who says you can't save pictures to the SD card from the camera? That's the only way I do it.

    I think the poster is pulling our leg.
  4.    #4  
    If you know how to make the camera save to the SD card, rather than to eme and THEN copy, please tell me!
  5.    #5  
    Tx for the comments, NO IO am not joking.

    In brief:


    Bluetooth ... uselss until it works. My headset is worthless.
    Screen ... I agree it is retty BUT the touch screen is crap. Even in the pohone app, some buttons do not work or work so slowly they are hard to use.

    Memory ,, seems as if you and I agree.

    Graffiti ,,, If YOU want to thumb type, then buy a Blackberry. I use Graffiti and want my machine to do it as well.

    Synch by USB ,,, synch works only for data, to charge you need extra equpt. I mispoke here,
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    If you know how to make the camera save to the SD card, rather than to eme and THEN copy, please tell me!
    Go to the Pics&Video app and select the card. The camera saves to whatever album is open there.
    Regards,

    Robert
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    Graffiti ,,, If YOU want to thumb type, then buy a Blackberry. I use Graffiti and want my machine to do it as well.
    P1 would say "If YOU want Graffiti, buy a Tungsten." The Treo 6xx line is specifically designed to be used by thumb typing. The design goal is to completely eliminate the need for a stylus. At the roadshow it was implied that future Treos wouldn't even have one.
    Regards,

    Robert
  8. #8  
    Go to the lower right corner of the camera (or camcorder screen) click on the pop-up menu there and select the album images are saved to. you can have the album in memory or on a card.

    On your graffetti issue, you did see the thumb board when you bought it right? Honestly most of the complaints I've seen you post seem to be that it's not exactly like the 600. If you wanted it exactly like the 600 just continue using that. And many of these issues are in something called the manual. It's both in the box and in pdf on the CD. Not trying to offend but most of the problems just really aren't a big deal. FYI, the way to sent the camera to save on a card I've answered before in at least two other threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    If you know how to make the camera save to the SD card, rather than to eme and THEN copy, please tell me!
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbienstock
    At the roadshow it was implied that future Treos wouldn't even have one.
    Really? That's news to me. I hope they reconsider.

    I'm sooo sick of Grafitti and am looking forward to using the Treo's keyboard instead. Having everything work with the 5-way is great too. But I hope they don't get rid of the stylus because I like having drag and drop, drawing, or the just plain navigation speed when I need it.

    edit: Oh, and games like Bejewelled! How could I possibly forget that?
    Last edited by GregV; 12/13/2004 at 03:13 PM.
  10.    #10  
    1. BCASLIS Tx I will lok The camera: that is a help, although it should be better documented and does only a little to deal with the overall HUGE memory problem.

    2. GREGV Graffiti: I am the customer. If they anounced they had screwed the machine up so that it could not use Graffiti, I would not have bought the thing. If all you want is a Blackberry work alike, well you are a cusotmer too.

    3. RBIENSTOCK: I really dislike foks who seem to fell their job here is to stand up for Palm .. or whatever vendor. TWIW the tingsten machines are not cell phones. I want a cell phone. I bought a cell phone PDA from PALM ... yes PALM. If they wanna cell a Blackberry, good luck to them.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    If you know how to make the camera save to the SD card, rather than to eme and THEN copy, please tell me!
    In the lower right corner, click on the drop-down list. The list is divided into two groups: in-memory albums and in-card albums. The in-card albums are below the first dotted line. You can keep it on "unfiled", which is the second "unfiled" category on the list.

    Not the most intuitive UI, but it works. This is the same for movies. You can record movies directly to the card. It currently tells me that I can record a 4+ hour movie when I'm storing to the card
  12. #12  
    Steve there is a 14 day return period from Sprint. You obviously didnt research anything before you bought. It sounds as though you expected this device to be a IIIc with a phone and an sd slot. It's not! So go get something you like. And just because we like our 650 doesnt mean we are Palm defenders. Most of us knew what we were getting into.

    And page 214 of the manual tells about saving pictures and vids to the location of your choice. Took me less than 30 sec to find it.
  13.    #13  
    First, I did not buy this from Sprint, I bought mine from P1. I am not sure of their warranty and may check.

    Second, WADR I did not expect this to be "a IIIc with a phone and an sd slot." I am a long term Handspring user and I expected this to be a more finsihed version of the T600. Unfortunately, Palm seems to lack a lot of the sophistication in design that Handspring had.

    Third, if you read my list, most of what is there is due to BAD design and should affect any pwer user of this machine. I would like your thoughts on:

    1. the onscreen buttons. In the phone app it is not unsual for these not to work and when they do work the tme lag is awful. Do you NOT see this?? Is it special to my phone?

    2. I have a fairly meagre set of SW installed and wherever possible the SW is on the SD card. Even wi NO picture or movie data, I am down to 4megs free. With a lot more SW on the T600, I had nearly 10 gigs free! One other dif is that I switched from Launch'em to Zlaunch since the former is not T650 compat.

    Fourth, I honestly think that your lack of use of Graffiti or Jot is irrelvant to my or other's expectations. I realize that YOU did not stress this but that is how I read your comment about the IIIc.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    Fourth, I honestly think that your lack of use of Graffiti or Jot is irrelvant to my or other's expectations. I realize that YOU did not stress this but that is how I read your comment about the IIIc.
    Just a quick comment:

    PalmOne's job was not to make Graffiti on the Treo work. In fact, they purposely left it out because there is a keyboard on the phone.

    To get Graffiti on the Treo would require a third party solution, that at this time is not compatible with the Treo 650. However, PalmOne isn't accountable for this, so much as the people that make Jot are.

    TheHandlessKing
    Latest moBlog shot:
  15.    #15  
    I realize that P1 does not assert that the T650 supports Jot. I think they should have Jot or some such built in, BUT the issue here is other thongs that they have done that make Graffiti hard to do ,,, Esp the unresponsive screen and time lag.

    Graffiti aside, there is no excuse for the way the touchscreen works.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    First, I did not buy this from Sprint, I bought mine from P1. I am not sure of their warranty and may check.

    Second, WADR I did not expect this to be "a IIIc with a phone and an sd slot." I am a long term Handspring user and I expected this to be a more finsihed version of the T600. Unfortunately, Palm seems to lack a lot of the sophistication in design that Handspring had.

    Third, if you read my list, most of what is there is due to BAD design and should affect any pwer user of this machine. I would like your thoughts on:
    1. the onscreen buttons. In the phone app it is not unsual for these not to work and when they do work the tme lag is awful. Do you NOT see this?? Is it special to my phone?

    2. I have a fairly meagre set of SW installed and wherever possible the SW is on the SD card. Even wi NO picture or movie data, I am down to 4megs free. With a lot more SW on the T600, I had nearly 10 gigs free! One other dif is that I switched from Launch'em to Zlaunch since the former is not T650 compat.
    Fourth, I honestly think that your lack of use of Graffiti or Jot is irrelvant to my or other's expectations. I realize that YOU did not stress this but that is how I read your comment about the IIIc.
    You bought a $600 device and didnt advance check to see if there was a warranty or return policy? Sorry but my sympathy for you ends here.

    The touchscreen works fine. The phone app itself lags sometimes but it's not the touchscreen itself thats the problem. Maybe you need to recalibrate yours. The instructions are in the manual.

    Lets see your list of software. I have 11.4 meg free and this is what I have on mine.
    2day
    4cast
    Agendus Pro with about 1000 contacts
    Backupman
    BT Manager hack
    Callfilter
    Chatter
    Comet
    Docs to go (on card)
    Dir assistant
    Handzipper
    McPhling
    MMplayer (on card)
    Movie Mentor (on card)
    Ptunes Deluxe (on card)
    PXA Clocker
    Splash iD (on card)
    Splash Photo (on card)
    Splash shopper (on card)
    Teal Auto
    Treo Alarms
    Zlauncher
    + all the stock stuff

    Hardly anything and I have 11.6 meg free. Memory is not an issue. Oh and my SD card is 256 meg and there is a 180mg Spiderman2.avi on it as well.

    And I'd love to see your 600 with "nearly 10 gigs" free. Everyone wants one of those.

    You need to realize that the Graffitti is dead. Thats why there is a keyboard. No amount of whining will bring it back. Try griping to the developers of Jot and others that provide aftermarket support to get their products working on the 650. It is not a design flaw, it was intentional!!

    Bluetooth works great for me. SontEricsson HBH-660 is great. Have to toggle the mute to get good volume but that problem will be solved shortly. Also bluetooth works great for BT sync and using my 650 as a modem. No PDAnet needed. Reverse dun is pretty cool too. Bluetooth is fine.

    USB sync needs extra equipment to charge. And your 600 didnt? They both have two cables required to sync and charge. Sure they look different on the 650 but the concept is the same. Maybe the 10gig version didnt though huh?

    I think you should ebay your 650 or return it and go back to your 600. You havent indicated that you got rid of it, so quit complaining and go back to your "better device".
    Last edited by Woof; 12/13/2004 at 03:18 PM.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    I realize that P1 does not assert that the T650 supports Jot. I think they should have Jot or some such built in, BUT the issue here is other thongs that they have done that make Graffiti hard to do ,,, Esp the unresponsive screen and time lag.

    Graffiti aside, there is no excuse for the way the touchscreen works.
    You apparently seem to be one of the very few who are having problems. Why not try returning it to PalmOne for another. The stylus is there for people like you who didn't know they were getting a thumbboard, and possibly apps that aren't 5-way compatible & touchscreen games.

    It's so much easier to get a letter on the screen by pressing a physical qwerty button than looping, swooping, a crossing, etc. I have NEVER heard of anybody who can write faster with graffiti than they can type on the thumbboard. Jeff Hawkin, the guy who created the Palm Pilot, left Palm to create Handspring, the company who was so fond of the thumbboard. Now most PDAs will go to having thumbboards, and only the select few niches of PDAs, such as ones with nothing but a big screen for doctors, perhaps, will not have the thumbboard (or maybe they'll all at least have one that's retractable). Thumbboards are the future. Anyway, can you really use graffiti more efficiently than the thumbboard??
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 12/14/2004 at 05:49 AM.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    1. the onscreen buttons. In the phone app it is not unsual for these not to work and when they do work the tme lag is awful. Do you NOT see this?? Is it special to my phone?
    I do not see this. I think it may be specific to your phone.

    As for the whole Graffiti issue, if you were a long time Handspring customer you probably would have realized that graffiti has been a third party add-on for at least 2+ years.

    As for why it has a stylus, it might be because it because there are some bazillion apps that utilize the touch screen. Try playing a game of Bejeweled without it. It's like asking why a computer needs a mouse. After all you'd still have arrow keys (similar to D-pad) and a keyboard.

    As for the poll itself, I think I agree with all of 1-3. A firmware fix needs to come out for some of the problems at some point, but overall it's fine.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Also, to all you cats who enjoy graffiti are just plain st00pit.
    What's stupid is making ridiculous generalizations and personal attacks for no reason. Maybe Stevesm annoyed you, but why be a jerk towards anyone and everyone? Thumb keyboards versus graffiti, like many other things people argue about such as whether to eat Chunky soup with a fork or a spoon, is largely a matter of preference.

    Personally I never got the hand of graffiti so a thumb keyboard is a must for me in a new device. (Now if they ever get true handwriting recognition to work screw keyboards altogether, but I'm not holding my breath that anytime soon.)

    Now, for all you idiots who Chunky soup with a fork... (just kidding)
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by GregV
    edit: Oh, and games like Bejewelled! How could I possibly forget that?
    and shanghai/mahjongg. impossible to play without a stylus. well, i suppose i could grow the fingernail on my left index finger extra long and file it to a point. eesh!
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
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