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  1. #21  
    I don't really understand the dilemma with the 600 users upgrading to the 650. I mean, as long as you're outside of your contract, you can easily sell your 600 on ebay for $250-$300. Then you can buy it from Amazon for $370 (after all rebates). Hmm, let's see what the worst case scenario is...$370-$250=$120. \/\/0\/\/!! $120 for a faster phone, a hi-res screen that opens up 3d and multimedia options, bluetooth that opens up all wireless possibilities (except for wifi, but it's just about as good and doesn't drain the battery), removable battery, better (or different according to some) keyboard, better UI, new blazer (pre-650 blazer experiences really are not the same after using this phone, and that's why most people own treos), better camera, camcorder functionality, Docs to Go and other software, and *recently added* the relief of knowing your friends will understand how to make and receive calls with the dedicated phone buttons. Could anybody in their right mind possibly rationalize how all that stuff I just listed DOES NOT equal $120?? ANYBODY?? And if you dare mention some software related bug, God will smite you. We all know that there will be updates and it will eventually become as stable as the 600.
  2. #22  


    Good points Grndslm!!

    /rant on
    I don't know, am I the only one getting sick of some of this whining. I mean really, does anyone have any memory of the initial release of the 600? It seems like 95% of the detractors here are basically saying "the 650 doesn't cure cancer so it not worth anything".

    If you don't care about the screen and bluetooth don't buy it. I believe there are lots of little improvements but everytime someone finds an improvement there are screams that it doesn't work exactly like the 600 so it's a terrible thing! I just read in another thread that someone decided the calender sucks since they can't set an alarm one handed. That is wrong, you can easily do it, but I guess it's the fault of the 650 that someone is too dumb to figure it out!
    /rant off

    Sorry but I feel better now.

    There are lots of things that should be fixed. The bluetooth implementation doesn't work as well as it should for headsets (and needs to have DUN added). It needs better out of memory behavior, etc..

    But it is a significant improvement. If anyone uses it for a while and gives it a chance you will see that. Right now I have more memory available than on my 600 simply because I haven't loaded some apps because the built-in ones are currently working OK enough. I haven't added an MP3 ringtone player yet (though I might yet) because I can add AMR and WAV ringtones natively. I haven't loaded Datebk5 yet because the new calendar has an agenda page and allows color tags for events. I haven't load Bob's alarm yet because World Clock lets me set a wakeup alarm which is all I ever really used Bob's alarm for. The new Blazer (at least on Sprint) is really fast and makes loading and viewing normal pages tolerable for the first time in such a small package. I will in time probably load more apps, but it should be recognized that the basic package is very very capable and for most users is a much much better value than the 600 was.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't really understand the dilemma with the 600 users upgrading to the 650. I mean, as long as you're outside of your contract, you can easily sell your 600 on ebay for $250-$300. Then you can buy it from Amazon for $370 (after all rebates). Hmm, let's see what the worst case scenario is...$370-$250=$120. \/\/0\/\/!! $120 for a faster phone, a hi-res screen that opens up 3d and multimedia options, bluetooth that opens up all wireless possibilities (except for wifi, but it's just about as good and doesn't drain the battery), removable battery, better (or different according to some) keyboard, better UI, new blazer (pre-650 blazer experiences really are not the same after using this phone, and that's why most people own treos), better camera, camcorder functionality, Docs to Go and other software, and *recently added* the relief of knowing your friends will understand how to make and receive calls with the dedicated phone buttons. Could anybody in their right mind possibly rationalize how all that stuff I just listed DOES NOT equal $120?? ANYBODY?? And if you dare mention some software related bug, God will smite you. We all know that there will be updates and it will eventually become as stable as the 600.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  3. #23  
    Well It seens your math skills are good... congrats... If you want an "expert" review of 650 vs 600 pls check this one:

    http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6452_7-...html?tag=prmo1

    enjoy it...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by cabees
    Well It seens your math skills are good... congrats... If you want an "expert" review of 650 vs 600 pls check this one:

    http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6452_7-...html?tag=prmo1

    enjoy it...
    I do believe a more direct link to the review instead of the specs would be: http://reviews.cnet.com/palmOne_Treo...2.html?tag=top

    However, this is a very poor and shallow review, made around the time the 650 was first announced. It even praises the 650, only looking down on the lack of memory and higher res screen. Clearly they have to put SOMETHING in the "Downside" section, nothing is perfect. But as we've already seen in polls here at TreoCentral, most treo users haven't really been affected by the approximate 7MB less than expected RAM. How many other phones, smart or dumb, come close to having 16MB of free RAM? Not too many, and the ones that do still have not come up with the form factor/functionality of the Treo. That's why PalmOne will NEVER give you the be all & end all device of your lifetime, or even a couple generations of treos. The point of business is to serve yourself by screwing others. I'd say that PalmOne did well in that aspect because they knew people would be drooling over the screen & bt to the point that they don't care about the 7 measily lost megabytes and the same resolution camera (even though higher quality) that all their friends have. Their goal is to get everyone to upgrade constantly. They'll succeed just as well as the iPod has. After the first couple generations of iPods, Apple could have easily integrated video for the first vidPod, but no. They change a few things here and there, gradually evolve the product to suck every last penny out of their customers that they can. And the iPod/iTunes has saved Apple, just as the Treo/Sprint has saved PalmOne.
  5. #25  
    I was at a service yesterday and afterwards we were haivng dinner and I had my 650 out doing something and the Pastor came over, whipped out his 600 and said, man that 650 is so much nicer! We must have spend about 30 minutes talking Treo; beaming files over to him and demoing the unit.

    It really all comes down to being able to appreciate the finer things.
    "Everyday is a Gift, A Blessing, An Opportunity!" - GM

    Phone history: Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo Centro, Pixi, Centro again, 800w, Treo 755p, Palm Pre
  6. #26  
    My net cost after rebates, Ebaying old phone, shipping, taxes, etc. is $150. There's nothing special there -- all of you T600 users should be able to find a way to get into that ballpark if you want to. I upgraded because I trusted there would be some nice improvements and because I figured if I waited too long, my T600 would start losing its value but the T650 would not come down in price. That's pretty much what would have happened if I hadn't upgraded right away from the T300 to the T600 a year ago, and even two months ago it was very difficult to get a T600 for much less than you could have when it first came out. That's why I upgraded.

    But I'm staying for the screen. I had no idea how much more useable the device would be with a better screen. If you were already using a 3rd party browser, the web browsing is a little faster, but the screen makes it so much more useable. The screen also makes it useful for me to show photos of my baby to friends and family. I take some of these with the Treo, but I also transfer some of my favorite photos taken with a regular camera over to the Treo just so I have them on me to show off. I really never thought I'd use the camcorder software, but what do you know? With a better screen and an improved camera, it's not bad and kind of fun to have around.

    Note that none of these are relevant to the business reasons I originally got into the Treo (email, PDA functions on a phone, etc.). But they sure do make it a more fun phone to have around.

    I personally like the idea of Bluetooth, but doubt I'll have any use for it except maybe a headset. And they don't seem to have all the kinks worked out on the headsets yet.

    I don't care much either way about the new button arrangement -- the old ones were fine. The keyboard seems like an even trade -- both had their advantages and both work fine for me. I'm putting my faith in P1 that this will turn out to be a more reliable and sturdy phone than the six T600s I went through last year. I'm also putting my faith in P1 that they'll fix the knuckleheaded stuff in a firmware update, like slow button response, lack of stability, poor microphone when there's background noise, etc. I may geek around with some of the other new capabilities (and some old ones you could have had on the T600), but I won't rely on any of them for day-to-day stuff.

    I still say this is a much better rollout than the T600 was a year ago. If you read about other Smartphones, I personally think you'll find they have just as many problems on rollout. I know that's true for Motorola and Samsung.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by CraigG65
    I love the new contacts database that allows both home and work addresses.
    I didn't know that one. Thanks.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    We all know that there will be updates and it will eventually become as stable as the 600.
    I am one of the lucky people that had more problems after the last Treo 600 update. The fact that an "update" is coming does not make me assume it will help. It makes me wonder if things will be made worse for some matters. Which is why I'll wait. For me I'm still under an extended warrantee (Best Buy). So I can wait and see where this all goes.
    Last edited by darnell; 12/11/2004 at 04:14 PM.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    I don't know, am I the only one getting sick of some of this whining. I mean really, does anyone have any memory of the initial release of the 600? It seems like 95% of the detractors here are basically saying "the 650 doesn't cure cancer so it not worth anything".
    You call it "whining" I call it being an informed consumer.

    I remember the T600 release. It did not result in P-1's stock going down several dollars and promises of an update just to calm investors/potential buyers.
  10. #30  
    For me the big advantages are:

    -Much better camera/video, with the ability to e-mail vids with sound.
    -Web surfing is tremendously improved with Blazer - I no longer need WebViewer or Xiino.

    Definitely worth the upgrade!
  11. #31  
    flash memory
  12. #32  
    This discussion of the 650 seems to me like Emeror's new clothes.

    Blutooth: Has someone found a headset that works? The Jabra that PalmOne bundels sucks.

    Screen: Bright is good but the touchscreen is trerrible. Most buttons do not work, try htting thre # button fromt he keuboard.

    Memory: Useable memeory is probably 10 mb LESS than the 600.

    Jot: ... barely works

    Synch by USB: ... no longer works

    D-Pad ... less useable than before.

    What does work?

    screen delay
    Daylight viewable screen
    Improved browser
    VASTLY IMPROVED PRPRPR!
  13. #33  
    Same thing in multiple threads!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    This discussion of the 650 seems to me like Emeror's new clothes.

    Blutooth: Has someone found a headset that works? The Jabra that PalmOne bundels sucks.
    Yes, I have a Motorola HS-850 and Sony Ericsson HBH-65 that work fine. The Motorola doesn't seem to have full support but someone found there is now a P1 knowledge base article on headsets that have been tested and the level of support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    Screen: Bright is good but the touchscreen is trerrible. Most buttons do not work, try htting thre # button fromt he keuboard.
    Huh? Either your screen needs to be calibrated or your unit is defective. The screen is bad because of hitting a button on the keyboard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    Memory: Useable memeory is probably 10 mb LESS than the 600.
    Can't say what you are doing. I'm not seeing a memory hit anything like this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    Jot: ... barely works
    I think most people here bought the unit to use the thumboard (that's why it takes up 1/3 of the device). To myself this is a complete non-issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    Synch by USB: ... no longer works
    Excuse me? USB synch on mine is extremely fast and reliable. Did you load the software from CD? Either something is messed up or your unit is defective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    D-Pad ... less useable than before.
    I find the D-pad just fine. Sorry you don't like it but there are other opinions on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesm
    What does work?
    screen delay
    Daylight viewable screen
    Improved browser
    VASTLY IMPROVED PRPRPR!
    For most people it seems to work well. Honestly, you seem to want it to be a 600 and nothing else. Maybe you should return it and just use the 600?
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  14. #34  
    Pros

    Keyboard - feel it is much easier to use with less errors

    BT

    Hires Sreen - Amazing

    Web browsing - While Blazer is much much faster and more enjoyable than on the 600. Xiino is even better than Blazer very fast.

    Camera - great improvement it is actually useable now

    CPU speed - much faster on internet games etc.


    Cons

    D-pad - is smaller or harder to use not really a big deal with the exception of nesem or gizmo

    No dedicated power button - this is bad if you use something like quickswitch with uses the hard buttons to launch apps

    Memory, Memory, Memory - I would give anything to see a patch here soon. I can live without nvram that is what backup software is for. If I have to take the battery out then I have to do a backup I am okay with this.

    Structural integrity - I think mainly because of no removable battery the 600 feels more sturdy to me.

    It took me awhile to decide on whether to keep the 650 or go back to the 600. I don't regret it now I am happy with the 650.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't really understand the dilemma with the 600 users upgrading to the 650. I mean, as long as you're outside of your contract, you can easily sell your 600 on ebay for $250-$300. Then you can buy it from Amazon for $370 (after all rebates). Hmm, let's see what the worst case scenario is...$370-$250=$120. \/\/0\/\/!!
    Hmm, there are a couple of minor problems with your scenario. Most 600 owners haven't had their phones for 18 months, since it was only available a bit more than a year ago. That means most 600 owners probably aren't out of their contract. There goes $150 of your scenario, making the best case $270. Then I have to buy a new cradle, and new sync n' charge cable, and a new car charger just to get back to the setup I have today. So add another $50 to $100. Hmm, $370 must seem like real money to a lot of people. And many people are going to need to replace their case, too, which adds even more.

    Aside from that, there are real issues with the phone. Yes, many people love it, but many people are really having problems that affect their usage. Poor voice quality, dropped calls, frequent resets, and more. It doesn't matter how "cool" or "better" the 650 is, if it can't be relied on to do the same job the 600 did. The high res screen, bluetooth, Blazer 4, video, a better keyboard, etc. aren't worth much if it can't reliably do the basic job as a telephone and PDA.

    So it's not a slam dunk. I've got my 600 (the original one, 13 months old) perfectly tuned and working just the way I want it. The decision to give that up for something which MAY be better, but may be worse, isn't trivial. I've got my 650 on order from Vienna Channels, but time will tell what I do with it.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    Hmm, there are a couple of minor problems with your scenario. Most 600 owners haven't had their phones for 18 months, since it was only available a bit more than a year ago. That means most 600 owners probably aren't out of their contract. There goes $150 of your scenario, making the best case $270. Then I have to buy a new cradle, and new sync n' charge cable, and a new car charger just to get back to the setup I have today. So add another $50 to $100. Hmm, $370 must seem like real money to a lot of people. And many people are going to need to replace their case, too, which adds even more.

    Aside from that, there are real issues with the phone. Yes, many people love it, but many people are really having problems that affect their usage. Poor voice quality, dropped calls, frequent resets, and more. It doesn't matter how "cool" or "better" the 650 is, if it can't be relied on to do the same job the 600 did. The high res screen, bluetooth, Blazer 4, video, a better keyboard, etc. aren't worth much if it can't reliably do the basic job as a telephone and PDA.

    So it's not a slam dunk. I've got my 600 (the original one, 13 months old) perfectly tuned and working just the way I want it. The decision to give that up for something which MAY be better, but may be worse, isn't trivial. I've got my 650 on order from Vienna Channels, but time will tell what I do with it.

    Well...let's see where to begin. I think a lot of the true treo fans bought the 600 when it first came out. If they were smart, they would have gotten the 1-yr contract so that they could easily switch the phone with the next gen treo. Anyway, if they got a longer contract, or signed up later. They were full aware of the terms of the contract, therefore, it's their fault and not PalmOne's. How can you drop $500+accessories on a device if you're not planning to use it for awhile? Either filthy rich in which case money doesn't matter, or incredibly dumb in which case you deserve the options you now have.

    I'm not denying that there are a small minority of people having problems. There have been numerous polls that have addressed the small percentage of people affected by these problems of dialing delays, poor audio quality on the other end, etc. And I am in complete agreement that if someone's needs are a perfectly reliable phone/pda and the phone can't reliably do the job, they should TAKE IT BACK since they have 14 days to test it out. However, if reliability is your real concern you should probably stick to non-convergence devices. If you happen to need a convergence device, either wait until PalmOne releases the firmware update (what I would do if I needed reliability), or go back to the 600.

    And of course the 650 isn't going to be a slam dunk. It's more like making a three pointer with the cash, blocking the other team, and THEN slam dunking it in their face when the update solves most, if not all, of the software related problems. The 600 was not without software related bugs/issues...and as you said you have owned it for 13 months, so it's a good chance that 13 months (or prolly a lot less) after the 650 is out, PalmOne will iron out all the kinks to the BEST SMARTPHONE IN THE WORLD.
  17. #37  
    I didn't say ANYTHING about who's fault it is. I simply think your assumption that large numbers of T600 owners are out of contract is, at best, unsupported. At worst, totally wrong.

    Maybe all the software bugs (assuming they all are software, and not hardware) will be ironed out. But in the meantime, many people rely on their phones for their business. In other words, for their livelihood. Those people can't afford to buy a phone that isn't reliable. And, based on past performance, not all of us are quite so convinced P1 will solve all the bugs. So until P1 DOES iron out all the kinks...

    Your initial post implied there was no reason at all NOT to buy a 650. I think I pointed out that there are a number of valid reasons why some people are not buying, and many others are hesitating.

    Don't take things so personally, and don't feel compelled to belittle those who disagree wtih you.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    I didn't say ANYTHING about who's fault it is. I simply think your assumption that large numbers of T600 owners are out of contract is, at best, unsupported. At worst, totally wrong.

    Maybe all the software bugs (assuming they all are software, and not hardware) will be ironed out. But in the meantime, many people rely on their phones for their business. In other words, for their livelihood. Those people can't afford to buy a phone that isn't reliable. And, based on past performance, not all of us are quite so convinced P1 will solve all the bugs. So until P1 DOES iron out all the kinks...

    Your initial post implied there was no reason at all NOT to buy a 650. I think I pointed out that there are a number of valid reasons why some people are not buying, and many others are hesitating.

    Don't take things so personally, and don't feel compelled to belittle those who disagree wtih you.
    In one of my posts I said "as long as you're outside of your contract, you can easily sell your 600 on ebay for $250-$300." I'm pretty sure that's a true statement. If one is not outside of his contract, what the hey is he doing looking for another phone? I have no evidence that large numbers of Treo users are out of their contracts, but I'm still going to assume that even a small percentage of the vast number of 600 users would mean....large numbers.

    You are very correct, in my initial post I said there was no reason not to buy the 650. I assumed that anyone looking for a reliable phone wouldn't even be looking for a converged device in the first place. Reliability is clearly going to be an initial concern, but not nearly as much as some people are making it out to seem. And once again, if you try it out and can bear a few flaws that are capable of being resolved with an update, you will probably be happy with your choice...considering how you will pay a greater cost in the long run after the 600's value depreciates and the 650's value stays the same.

    So, I guess the only thing that changes from my initial post is...if you need 100% reliability, go with Nokia...if you need a 100% reliable smartphone, go with the 600...if you need 98% reliability, and want a lot of more useful features for a slightly higher price, try the 650 and make up your own mind.

    Sorry about taking smartphones personally and belittling those who disagree with me...but, I'd prefer if people just made up their own mind.
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