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  1.    #1  
    This for anyone who is having stability issues with their Treo 650. Random resets, resets while synching, and or lockups. You will need an SD card and BackupBuddy software to complete this procedure.

    1. In the Backup folder in your Palm directory on your PC, move all the items in that folder to a new folder (name it OldBackups just for easy reference.)
    2. Backup your Treo to your SD card using Backup Buddy.
    3. Perform a hard reset and then restore from the SD card.
    4. Sync with your PC.

    This should stabilize Treo 650's that have been unstable. I haven't had a random reset or a reset at all since performing this procedure. Why does this work? I don't really know but I am guessing that Backup Buddy's "Removing Orphaned Files" process removes older files from a previous PDA used before upgrading that are installed on the Treo 650 because Palm's instructions unforunately did not warn people to rename their Backup folders before switching devices.

    PS Moderators: If enough people report success with this method please consider making this a sticky.
  2. #2  
    I'd be curious to see if that holds up for you. I got so frustrated by the frequent resets that I uninstalled all desktop apps - the "upgrade" to the 650 from a Clie NX80 - and reinstalled everything as if the 650 were my first Palm. I didn't hard reset the 650 which may have made my efforts moot, as I still have resets.

    I'm having a terrible time keeping this damn thing from resetting. My uhnejukatid guess is that it has something to do with the memory "bug" in combination with a near-full device. What older Palms tolerated when near-full, the 650 chokes on.

    Getting really frustrated with this thing, but only have a couple of days to return it. Anyone know if buying the 650 from a Palm store and setting up new service with Sprint qualifies for that $150 rebate described on the Palm website? That might seal its fate, depending on which way the answer goes.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by NDPTAL85
    This for anyone who is having stability issues with their Treo 650. Random resets, resets while synching, and or lockups. You will need an SD card and BackupBuddy software to complete this procedure.

    1. In the Backup folder in your Palm directory on your PC, move all the items in that folder to a new folder (name it OldBackups just for easy reference.)
    2. Backup your Treo to your SD card using Backup Buddy.
    3. Perform a hard reset and then restore from the SD card.
    4. Sync with your PC.
    i decided to give this a try, as my T650 has been getting more and more unstable (random crashes/resets) as i've loaded it up with, well, more crap.

    turned into quite a chore. my BBVFS restore kept crashing right in the middle. i had the same problem on the T600 i briefly had as well. turned out that when one of the four 'network' programs restored, it would go 'poof'. excluding those from the main restore worked okay though, then i restored them one by one after everything else was installed. it still crashed on one file. unfortunately, i can't grab the name of it, because my hotsync has hung on synchronizing contacts. oy.

    but i have high hopes. i also discovered, after the hard reset, that while i had a bunch of nice ringtones before - which didn't want to transfer over, some error in the file - there were apparently several that had been overwritten, likely from my T600 info. didn't even know they existed, such as 'treo tech'.

    ugh. hotsync still hung, and this is on the cancelling part.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  4. #4  
    get rid of epocrates if you have it. it is so unstable. i have restored from scratch one by one, and this thing still resets. i just don't get it at all. and it's upsetting me. i know i never have anything useful to say.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    ugh. hotsync still hung, and this is on the cancelling part.
    did several soft resets, still zero luck hotsyncing any more. hangs on contacts. can't figure it out. very weird.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  6. #6  
    this may not solve everyone's issue, but it has worked for me, 99% of the time.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...solved+hotsync
  7. wahili's Avatar
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    622 Posts
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    #7  
    i did all of this and nothing worked for me. turns out it was my hardware.
    the p1 people and sprint people i talked to were acting very funny and dodging one of my questions and that was this.

    "can software that in install on the treo actually permanently corrupt the NVFS hardware" and i was getting some very sketchy responses. normally i would think a hard reset would fix any issues but the p1 tech was hinting certain software could cause a "seizure like failure between the RAM and ROM in the treo 650 causing a problem between the two communicating"

    im not really sure such a thing could be possible based on my knowledge of the technology in question.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by wahili
    "can software that in install on the treo actually permanently corrupt the NVFS hardware" and i was getting some very sketchy responses. normally i would think a hard reset would fix any issues but the p1 tech was hinting certain software could cause a "seizure like failure between the RAM and ROM in the treo 650 causing a problem between the two communicating"

    im not really sure such a thing could be possible based on my knowledge of the technology in question.
    This is horrible if true. I hope not because what's the sense of having a hard reset then?
    Make It Happen!!
    If you don't, who will?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by pufftissue
    get rid of epocrates if you have it. it is so unstable.
    I haven't had a single problem with epocrates and use it everyday on my 650.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    did several soft resets, still zero luck hotsyncing any more. hangs on contacts. can't figure it out. very weird.
    finally solved it. one of the caller ID photo in my contacts was corrupt. removed the image from that record, and now hotsync is rolling along normally.

    as to how a caller ID photo became corrupted....i don't even want to think about what happened...
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  11. #11  
    So, your problem was fixed? They replaced the Treo? Certainly all the issues you have been posting about sounded like bad hardware.

    No offense, but do you know that corruption of the NVFS hardware was really the issue? I mean if you hardware was replaced it could be the hardware was bad not that some software corrupted the hardware. One example I had a high DSLR that was intermittenly getting straight lines of noise in the images. The replacement worked fine. I tried all sorts of different memory cards but the issue was the camera. I'm convinced that the memory in it's storage buffer was bad due to the results of some tests I ran. You could easily have been seeing some hardware failure like this on yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by wahili
    i did all of this and nothing worked for me. turns out it was my hardware.
    the p1 people and sprint people i talked to were acting very funny and dodging one of my questions and that was this.

    "can software that in install on the treo actually permanently corrupt the NVFS hardware" and i was getting some very sketchy responses. normally i would think a hard reset would fix any issues but the p1 tech was hinting certain software could cause a "seizure like failure between the RAM and ROM in the treo 650 causing a problem between the two communicating"

    im not really sure such a thing could be possible based on my knowledge of the technology in question.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  12. utey's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    finally solved it. one of the caller ID photo in my contacts was corrupt. removed the image from that record, and now hotsync is rolling along normally.

    as to how a caller ID photo became corrupted....i don't even want to think about what happened...
    How did you figure that out?
    Grace & Peace,

    utey
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i decided to give this a try, as my T650 has been getting more and more unstable (random crashes/resets) as i've loaded it up with, well, more crap.

    turned into quite a chore. my BBVFS restore kept crashing right in the middle. i had the same problem on the T600 i briefly had as well. turned out that when one of the four 'network' programs restored, it would go 'poof'. excluding those from the main restore worked okay though, then i restored them one by one after everything else was installed. it still crashed on one file. unfortunately, i can't grab the name of it, because my hotsync has hung on synchronizing contacts. oy.

    but i have high hopes. i also discovered, after the hard reset, that while i had a bunch of nice ringtones before - which didn't want to transfer over, some error in the file - there were apparently several that had been overwritten, likely from my T600 info. didn't even know they existed, such as 'treo tech'.

    ugh. hotsync still hung, and this is on the cancelling part.

    So based on these recent experiences, do you think the 650 is/was ready for primetime? This seems like a lot of hoops to go through; you or I might deal with it, but would the "average" user?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by utey
    How did you figure that out?
    since it was hanging during the contacts hotsync, i started going through my contacts starting at the last one (not sure what prompted me to start at the end) but her photo came up all messed up in the lower half of it. so i removed it, and hotsync went fine after that.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    So based on these recent experiences, do you think the 650 is/was ready for primetime? This seems like a lot of hoops to go through; you or I might deal with it, but would the "average" user?
    i have no idea. i didn't have to try this out - i could have just removed apps one by one.

    important caveats however: i love to try out anything i can find that sounds interesting. install programs that say 'OS3.5+', which is no guarantee of stability, and in fact hints at likely instability. i like to install apps that hook to internals. i tend to load up six or seven new interesting apps i've found on freewarepalm.com or wherever, and try them out en masse. then remarkably enough, things get unstable. go figure!

    i'm a hobbyist/enthusiast, not a business power user, even though the T650 is very definitely a power tool for me in my business (being able to SSH into my servers and reroute traffic while in a meeting with my attorney yesterday, for example).

    so, who knows. the T650 needs more memory. they need to address a handful of stability issues that appear to have cropped up with some of the standard apps.

    get this: my Palm V still crashes sometimes. it's true! oh, and check this out: my Windows XP Pro PC here crashes sometimes. And my Windows XP Home laptop crashes sometimes. and my Win2K server sometimes crashes. and one of my freebsd servers sometimes crashes. and even my trusty, ten year old sparc 20's running solaris on rare occasion crash too. and my linux servers sometimes crash too.

    my only truly stable hardware is the part of my server complex built from more recent sun servers running solaris. they don't crash unless i tell them to crash. seriously.

    so, to sum it up: you tell me what's ready for prime time.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  16. #16  
    which solaris?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i have no idea. i didn't have to try this out - i could have just removed apps one by one.

    important caveats however: i love to try out anything i can find that sounds interesting. install programs that say 'OS3.5+', which is no guarantee of stability, and in fact hints at likely instability. i like to install apps that hook to internals. i tend to load up six or seven new interesting apps i've found on freewarepalm.com or wherever, and try them out en masse. then remarkably enough, things get unstable. go figure!

    i'm a hobbyist/enthusiast, not a business power user, even though the T650 is very definitely a power tool for me in my business (being able to SSH into my servers and reroute traffic while in a meeting with my attorney yesterday, for example).

    so, who knows. the T650 needs more memory. they need to address a handful of stability issues that appear to have cropped up with some of the standard apps.

    get this: my Palm V still crashes sometimes. it's true! oh, and check this out: my Windows XP Pro PC here crashes sometimes. And my Windows XP Home laptop crashes sometimes. and my Win2K server sometimes crashes. and one of my freebsd servers sometimes crashes. and even my trusty, ten year old sparc 20's running solaris on rare occasion crash too. and my linux servers sometimes crash too.

    my only truly stable hardware is the part of my server complex built from more recent sun servers running solaris. they don't crash unless i tell them to crash. seriously.

    so, to sum it up: you tell me what's ready for prime time.

    So your answer is it's not ready for prime time. Thanks.

    Not sure what comparing the 650 crashing to desktop and server OS is meant to mean. Kinda like comparing a RC airplane to a Boeing 777.

    Actually, the less complex something is, the fewer crashes you expect.
    Treos (Palm) are really bad in this respect. (Similar PPC devices, which are more complex, do not crash/reset as much as the Treo).

    WinXP (and Linux desktop variants) are very solid by comparison. So is W3K server and Unix (Solaris included), IF you configure them properly.

    Ten years ago, I had a Unix servers running for nearly 4 years, doing all sorts of routing, file, messaging and directory services, without a single crash or reboot. Now that was solid.

    Maybe Cobalt (another year, another $600) will bode better.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytee
    which solaris?
    LOL.....I know it wasn't Solaris 8, 9 or 10 on x86. Pathetic.

    Just make sure you put those 276 patches on in the correct order...
  19. #19  
    So your answer is it's not ready for prime time. Thanks.
    Personally, I love answers like this. The conclusion has absolutely nothing to do with his point, but it supports your mind-set, so that's irrelevant. Yeesh.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    So your answer is it's not ready for prime time. Thanks.

    Not sure what comparing the 650 crashing to desktop and server OS is meant to mean. Kinda like comparing a RC airplane to a Boeing 777.
    an RC airplane is a toy. crashing one is a pain. a Boeing 777 is not a toy. crashing one is a catastrophe. your metaphor fails on all levels.

    computing devices crash. some are more stable than others. my T650 was very unstable. but read on, there's more to it than this simplistic analysis.

    Actually, the less complex something is, the fewer crashes you expect.
    Treos (Palm) are really bad in this respect. (Similar PPC devices, which are more complex, do not crash/reset as much as the Treo).
    you consider treos to be *less* complex devices? a computing device with keyboard, high res screen, cellular telephone, broadband internet, all packed into a space half the size of a paperback book is *less* complex than other devices?

    i have zero experience with PPC devices, so i can't speak to whether they crash more or less. i was not aware that PPC devices are more complex. i've never paid attention to the PPC market.

    WinXP (and Linux desktop variants) are very solid by comparison. So is W3K server and Unix (Solaris included), IF you configure them properly.

    Ten years ago, I had a Unix servers running for nearly 4 years, doing all sorts of routing, file, messaging and directory services, without a single crash or reboot. Now that was solid.

    Maybe Cobalt (another year, another $600) will bode better.
    get this: since doing the hard reset, and going through the crap with the corrupt addressbook problem, i've had no resets. no crashes. zero, zip, nada, none. my T650 is now stable.

    something i xferred over during the initial hotsync was causing the problem all this time.

    update - i just ran a battery of 'make it crash' actions, and was finally able to make it lock up by turning on bluetooth and DUN, then switching back to the browser, where it has hung on connecting to vision. since the DUN hack was already one of the things that made the unit unstable, i'm not surprised. all the other things i tried to crash it with failed.

    this contrasts with things before the 'make it stable' steps, where programs would cause a crash pretty easily.

    i'm very happy with the stability now. i think the biggest failure is that P1 didn't have a separate "DON'T SYNC YOUR T600 DATA TO YOUR T650" warning in the box. this seems like a pretty creitical issue. right, i know - the same applies to upgrades in just about any palmos device. it was stupid of me to do the initial hotsync with all my old data. user error.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
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