View Poll Results: Have you ever returned a Treo 650 that you have owned?

Voters
217. You may not vote on this poll
  • No

    173 79.72%
  • Yes - returned 1, now no longer using a Treo 650

    8 3.69%
  • Yes - returned 1, still using (first) replacement Treo 650

    28 12.90%
  • Yes - returned 2, now no longer using a Treo 650

    3 1.38%
  • Yes - returned 2, still using (second) replacement Treo 650

    2 0.92%
  • Yes - returned 3, now no longer using a Treo 650

    1 0.46%
  • Yes - returned 3, still using (third) replacement Treo 650

    1 0.46%
  • Yes - returned 4 or more, now no longer using a Treo 650

    1 0.46%
  • Yes - returned 4 or more, still using (fourth or greater) replacement Treo 650

    0 0%
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Results 41 to 58 of 58
  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    23% return rate is not good at all.

    As for a one man crusade sinking P1, I think the R and D team is more then one.
    Never said 23% was good, just that the air on the boards is that only about 23% of them work. These polls are not accurate, just a base line, but I still think that 78% is better then I thought it would be accoding to the buzz.

    The main point was that a unhappy person is a lot more vocal and can do a lot of damage.

    I agree with what you say about the R&D people, never thought about that, wonder if any are on a street corner yet? Good point.

    What would be a return rate that one can live with? less then 5%? I would say 2% return is not bad (unless your that 2% )

    Back to the R&D, where do you think they get their beta testers at? Funny that the treo650 had the longerst beta lest in palms history according to a article I read, but with in a day, the people here at TC found a lot of issues, and most of them are not quirks or only cetain people, some are just cut and dry issues. how was the call delay ever tollerated by a beta tester?
    Food for thought I say...You got me thinkng now (and that's a bad thing.. )
    Thanks, matt
  2. #42  
    Can you imagine Jack Welsch former CEO of GE being told that there's a 23% return rate on a newly introduced product. Those responsible would not be out on the street corner. You wouldn't be able find them period.
  3. #43  
    Great poll. Moderator make it a sticky. Dump one of the other stickies.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Can you imagine Jack Welsch former CEO of GE being told that there's a 23% return rate on a newly introduced product. Those responsible would not be out on the street corner. You wouldn't be able find them period.
    good thing the results of this poll are meaningless then.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    good thing the results of this poll are meaningless then.
    Of course they're meaningless.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Zen_of_Palm
    I find it quite ominous that your poll is now showing a 40% return rate! I'll be watching how things work out here at Treocentral, but that vaporware Samsung is looking more and more attractive...
    I'm keeping my 600, and keeping the 650 for a family member, but as soon as the PPC-6000 goes on sale, i'm ordering it supersonic-jetplane express.

    I'll be here as long as my current three Treo's last (The 300 no holds a charge for 10 minutes max), but i'm begining to think it's gonna be a PPC world.
  7. #47  
    The only report I have been able to find lists the electronic's industry return rate at 9.46%.
    http://www.rlec.org/ConsumerElectron...ey&Results.pdf

    Cutting edge electronics however ALWAYS have a high return rate, because people set very high expectations on them, and (especially because of NO HASSLE returns) they can easily swap them out.

    There are several articles that state that dell has something of a 28% return rate of their laptops.

    People are also having a hard time in this thread seperating a return because they didn't LIKE the item, vs. a return of something that was defective.

    On this "poll" 93%(!) of peope who have purchased a treo in the first month it has been available are still using one. I think that is pretty significant. People crowing that everyone is returning them are not being totally accurate, because those people are turning right around with a treo and are still using them.

    Also, with a newly released device, there are always going to be odd problems, especially when the expectations of the device are sky high. When Apple's original powerbook G4 came out, there were reports of flexing screens, grinding CD-ROM drives, odd noises and wierd shutoffs. Of course there were the usual pronouncements of gloom and doom among the faithful, but within weeks apple had solved most of the bugs, and apple's still happily in business.

    Every time a new product ramps up, there are always going to be odd problems, and the early adopters always pick them up.

    For example, this 'P' key thing. My p key is floppy, and i have to press it several times to get it to work. Am I going to return it? Of course!!! I have a 14 day return policy with sprint. I can return it for whatever reason I want!
    People will fault me for doing it because it's a minor defect. Others will rant about another mass manufacturing defect and how it's the end of palm.

    But the point is, is that new high technology always carries the the possibility that something didn't come out of the factory fully baked. For people who REQUIRE 100% perfection, they shouldn't buy newly released electronics, and they should wait until production variances are worked out.
    This rate of swapping out a device for another shouldn't be seen as something terrible and horrendous. Again, 93% are still using their 650s.

    Now, if the treos are going to be exploding or screens going to be blanking in a month or so, then we've got the makings of an actual problem. But a month into a release? Naah.

    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Can you imagine Jack Welsch former CEO of GE being told that there's a 23% return rate on a newly introduced product. Those responsible would not be out on the street corner. You wouldn't be able find them period.
    This is silly. a DEFECT rate of 23%? Maybe.
    Heck, 40% of clothing is returned after christmas, is it all defective? People can return their items for whatver they want.
    Until someone does a survey of 650 owners and 1.) WHY they returned it, WHAT the problem was and 3.)Whether the return influenced their impression of the 650 and PalmOne, then one would be able to see what is going on in those numbers.
  8. #48  
    We are sitting at 28% on this poll. We all know this is not definative poll for the Treo650 on the whole market (out there), but then again.. I bet the market as a whole would be worse! The people that visit these boards know about work-arounds etc.

    Honestly, I am not suprised at ALL. This is exactly like the Treo600 release, and should be expected.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by farzonalmaneih
    We are sitting at 28% on this poll. We all know this is not definative poll for the Treo650 on the whole market (out there), but then again.. I bet the market as a whole would be worse! The people that visit these boards know about work-arounds etc.

    Honestly, I am not suprised at ALL. This is exactly like the Treo600 release, and should be expected.
    i'm not clear how we are getting 28% out of this. are you including people who have returned the device and not replaced it with a T650? yes, it's a return, but it is arguable whether that could be quantified as being for a defect, such as keyboard, screen, etc problems.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Dead pixels are a common problem in the whole sector and different companies have different policies.. some let you return it some say it goes with the territory to have x dead pixels.
    Nintendo publically promised to repair any DS with even 1 bad pixel and according to Engadget they've been making good on this promise. It would be nice if this sets a new standard.

    (The DS is not exactly a high end laptop offered to business customers so if Nintendo is willing to fix a single dead pixel on a toy then P1 and every other company should fix them on their products IMHO.)
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i'm not clear how we are getting 28% out of this. are you including people who have returned the device and not replaced it with a T650? yes, it's a return, but it is arguable whether that could be quantified as being for a defect, such as keyboard, screen, etc problems.
    Yes, assuming all returns were because of problems/dissatisfaction.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    The only report I have been able to find lists the electronic's industry return rate at 9.46%.
    http://www.rlec.org/ConsumerElectron...ey&Results.pdf

    Cutting edge electronics however ALWAYS have a high return rate, because people set very high expectations on them, and (especially because of NO HASSLE returns) they can easily swap them out.

    There are several articles that state that dell has something of a 28% return rate of their laptops.

    People are also having a hard time in this thread seperating a return because they didn't LIKE the item, vs. a return of something that was defective.

    On this "poll" 93%(!) of peope who have purchased a treo in the first month it has been available are still using one. I think that is pretty significant. People crowing that everyone is returning them are not being totally accurate, because those people are turning right around with a treo and are still using them.

    Also, with a newly released device, there are always going to be odd problems, especially when the expectations of the device are sky high. When Apple's original powerbook G4 came out, there were reports of flexing screens, grinding CD-ROM drives, odd noises and wierd shutoffs. Of course there were the usual pronouncements of gloom and doom among the faithful, but within weeks apple had solved most of the bugs, and apple's still happily in business.

    Every time a new product ramps up, there are always going to be odd problems, and the early adopters always pick them up.

    For example, this 'P' key thing. My p key is floppy, and i have to press it several times to get it to work. Am I going to return it? Of course!!! I have a 14 day return policy with sprint. I can return it for whatever reason I want!
    People will fault me for doing it because it's a minor defect. Others will rant about another mass manufacturing defect and how it's the end of palm.

    But the point is, is that new high technology always carries the the possibility that something didn't come out of the factory fully baked. For people who REQUIRE 100% perfection, they shouldn't buy newly released electronics, and they should wait until production variances are worked out.
    This rate of swapping out a device for another shouldn't be seen as something terrible and horrendous. Again, 93% are still using their 650s.

    Now, if the treos are going to be exploding or screens going to be blanking in a month or so, then we've got the makings of an actual problem. But a month into a release? Naah.



    This is silly. a DEFECT rate of 23%? Maybe.
    Heck, 40% of clothing is returned after christmas, is it all defective? People can return their items for whatver they want.
    Until someone does a survey of 650 owners and 1.) WHY they returned it, WHAT the problem was and 3.)Whether the return influenced their impression of the 650 and PalmOne, then one would be able to see what is going on in those numbers.

    Like I said in an earlier post, regardless of why, a high return is a problem, but ,hey, the clothing guys can survive a 40% post xmas so P1 should be ok. Love the comparison. I know that has me really thinking.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 12/11/2004 at 09:20 AM.
  13. #53  
    Can we Sticky this thread?
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    But the point is, is that new high technology always carries the the possibility that something didn't come out of the factory fully baked. For people who REQUIRE 100% perfection, they shouldn't buy newly released electronics, and they should wait until production variances are worked out.
    This rate of swapping out a device for another shouldn't be seen as something terrible and horrendous. Again, 93% are still using their 650s.

    All this talk about "new technology" is getting a little overbaked.

    As much as we would all like to think it did, the Treo 650 did not introduce any "new technology" whatsoever.

    It was an upgrade of a Treo 600, which was an upgrade of the Treo 300 (which can still do most of what a 600 can do, albiet much slower).

    Hi-Res (if that what were are to call a 320x320 LCD panel) has been around for a long time, cellular phone radio's ... years, the Palm OS, about 9 years, NVRAM has been around forever, Bluetooth has never been super reliable, but it's nowhere near new.

    Let's quit pretending that the Treo 650 is soooooo cutting edge, akin to the invention of the car. Sometimes the PPC's amaze me too, but it's just a laptop shrunk as far as it will go with a cellular radio stuck in there.

    Nothing new has been invented here. There is no "new" technology.

    It's just a model of phone that is made up of a sum of parts of rather mature technology.

    Please, please, quit referring to this as "new high technology". It makes the group as a whole seem somewhat AOL'ish.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodNamesRTaken
    Nothing new has been invented here. There is no "new" technology.

    It's just a model of phone that is made up of a sum of parts of rather mature technology.
    I disagree...The novelty lies in the convergence. Never before was mature technology in one device. Hence, "new technology".
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I disagree...The novelty lies in the convergence. Never before was mature technology in one device. Hence, "new technology".
    I disagree.

    Embedding speakers into the frame of computer monitors was not a "new tchnology" that needed to endure "new technology"beta testing, since both speakers and computer monitors were both fully developed technologies.

    Putting two or more time-tested technologies together in the same package is not a new invention, it is a nice device that makes use of several existing technologies.

    Products are being modified all the time, and by your theory, the world would be in a constant state of beta testing in which nothing should ever be expected to work properly out of the box.
  17. #57  
    You might want to take the approach that if it gets a patent from the United States Patent Office, then it is NEW technology. Otherwise, it isn't. If I take a TREO 650, glue it to my favorite putter, and call it a new putting and communication device, have I come up with new, patentable technology? Don't think so.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodNamesRTaken
    I disagree.

    Embedding speakers into the frame of computer monitors was not a "new tchnology" that needed to endure "new technology"beta testing, since both speakers and computer monitors were both fully developed technologies.

    Putting two or more time-tested technologies together in the same package is not a new invention, it is a nice device that makes use of several existing technologies.

    Products are being modified all the time, and by your theory, the world would be in a constant state of beta testing in which nothing should ever be expected to work properly out of the box.
    I can kinda see where you're coming from...but, not really...hardware and software are a bit different. How can you compare embedding speakers in computer monitors to a smartphone that replaces your monitor, speaker, mouse, keyboard, cpu, camera, remote control, flashlight, mp3 player, pvp, internet connection, etc?? I would consider smartphones "new technology", putting the intro date sometime in mid to late 2002, with the introduction of the first group of Handspring Treos. There have been two major upgrades to the Treo line since then, the 600 and 650 - each improving dramatically while missing a couple beats in other areas it was once strong (Ben Franklin tried to be perfect, but he couldn't since he'd focus on his weakness, then forget about his strengths) You're not going to find a PERFECT smartphone for at least 2 or 3 more years, and even those will have software bugs/problems, which will eventually be upgraded. That's just the nature of software...happened with the 600, even with the almighty and proprietary XP, and also the open-sourced Linux & FreeBSD. So...in conclusion, software WILL ALWAYS have some problems outta the box, that cutting edge customers should be more than willing to test out for everyone else...leading to a highly stable and NEW convergence device.
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