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  1.    #1  
    I have been on the Treo 650 thread and following their developments as they work to make the Treo 650 compatible with wi-fi. Some interesting information has emerged in that thread that has lead me to beleive that it may not be the Treo 600 hardware that is the limitation for wi-fi. If hardware is the not the limitation then all we may need to get a wi-fi card working on the Treo 600 is some one (like shadowmite) with a little programming knowledge.
    I am in Canada and our data access plans are rediculous. I am paying $40 dollars a month for data and I am not even close to unlimited, so wi-fi on my Treo 600 would be a great benefit. Also, many of us are Treo 600 users who are considering upgrading to a Treo 650 and would find that unneccesary, if wi-fi was possible on our Treo 600s.

    Anyway, Recently Tapwave released the wi-fi drivers for the Zodiac so that it can now support a San Disk (no memory) wi-fi card. I have been comparing the hardware specs between the Treo 600 and the Zodiac 1. The specs are fairly similar when comparing Zodiac 1 and the Treo 600. Here is my research:
    Treo 600:________________________Zodiac 1:
    32 mb RAM_______________________32 mb RAM
    Palm OS 5.2.1H___________________Palm OS 5.2T
    SDIO compatible SD/MMC slot _______SDIO compatible SD/MMC slot
    144MHz Processor_________________ 200Mhz Processor
    1800 mAh Lithium Polymer __________Dual 3.7 volt Lithium Ion rechargable

    Considering the Zodiac 1 is supposed to be compatible with the sandisk wi-fi card, I am not completely convinced that it is impossible for the Treo 600 to support wi-fi. My only concern is that (as was mentioned by someone, somewhere in some post) there may not be enough power supply to the SDIO/SD card slot to run wi-fi. This may be a ploy by Palmone to scare people away from examining this possiblity. (Treo 600 carriers may have put pressure on palmone to make it seem impossible as they make a killing on data access)
    I have installed the Zodiac Driver attached below(if not below can be found a Tapwave website) on my Treo 600. The application opens and appears to work fine on my Treo 600. The only problem is that it asks me to insert my W-Fi card in the right hand slot(Slot 2). I do not have a SanDisk Wi-fi card or Slot 2 obviously on my Treo 600. I was wondering if someone has a Treo 600 and a Sandisk wi-fi card if they were willing to install the the Zodiac Driver (located on pg. 21 of this thread) and see if the Wi-Fi Application locates the SD card and possibly makes Wi-Fi work on the Treo 600 (unlikely, but possible). If this does not work, I was wondering if some with some programming knowledge(like shadowmite), could look at changing the Zodiac Driver (.prc) so that it looks for the wi-fi card in slot 1 rather than slot 2. I think some one with limited programming knowledge could do this. It may be that simple. I beleive this is definetly worth a try, considering we have seen no actual proof that the Treo 600 hardware is the definte limitation. Whe I compare the specs of the Treo 600 and the Treo 650. I beleive that the driver for the zodiac looks closer to a driver that would work on the 600 than the 650. Please help this cause. I am sure many people would be willing to pay someone that can make this happen. We can set-up a Pay Pal account for developers. I am in for $50 if you can make this work.
    Nevin
    Attached Files Attached Files
  2. #2  
    The alert box about the slot #2 is displayed by the wifi configuration utility, but I suspect that the actual slot choice is done in the SD slot driver (which is ARM code, not 68k code...)

    I don't know if the SD slot hardware of the Zodiak would be similar enough to that of the 600 to be tweaked...
  3.    #3  
    I assume that the SD slot hardware would be similar. Take a look at these specs taken from San Disk website:

    Wi-Fi SD Card

    The Wi-Fi SD card is the smallest Wi-Fi card in the market. The card will allow SDIO enabled devices to connect to HotSpots (802.11b Access Points) worldwide for fast wireless Internet connectivity. The card supports Pocket PC 2002, Pocket PC 2003, Pocket PC 2003 Mobile Edition and Palm Zire 71 devices that have an SDIO enabled slot.

    Being compatible with that many SDIO enabled devices similar to the Treo 600 and both running a Palm OS 5.2 should make them at least very similar. I would assume that San Disk developers had to work to make this happen for the Zodiac 1. Note : the only update needed to run the Wi-Fi for Zodiac users was the .prc app. I really need to get a San Disk card so that I could test this. For all I know it may already recognize the card.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrisonmuscle
    I assume that the SD slot hardware would be similar.
    Similar, yes, but here we're talking computers, so it needs to be closer to "identical" than to "similar"! I guess the only way to know is try...

    Quote Originally Posted by morrisonmuscle
    Note : the only update needed to run the Wi-Fi for Zodiac users was the .prc app. I really need to get a San Disk card so that I could test this. For all I know it may already recognize the card.
    Although it seems things are a bit simpler on the Zodiac (a smaller, single .prc file for the WiFi driver), note that the WiFi driver explicitely requires that the Zodiac 1.1 update be installed to work. Didn't have the time (yet) to check what's in the 1.1 update, though...
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by euroclie
    Similar, yes, but here we're talking computers, so it needs to be closer to "identical" than to "similar"! I guess the only way to know is try...

    Although it seems things are a bit simpler on the Zodiac (a smaller, single .prc file for the WiFi driver), note that the WiFi driver explicitely requires that the Zodiac 1.1 update be installed to work. Didn't have the time (yet) to check what's in the 1.1 update, though...
    I checked a lot of computer/ office/ bussiness stores, but I could not find the San Disk Wi-Fi Card. All of the stores could order it in, but that would take forever. I am in Canada, I guess we are behind quite a bit in the wi-fi department. What we need is some one with a Treo 600 and access to a San Disk card. We are both just speculating and hoping right now. It would be great if you could take a look at this when you get a chance. You no much more about the coding and programming than myself. I know you are busy on the Treo 650 wi-fi project right now and you also have a life to live.
    thanks for your help.
  6. #6  
    I'll probably have a chance to do some testing with a Sandisk Wifi + 256MB SD card in two weeks, so I'll report if I have anything new after playing a bit with it. I'm not holding my breath, though...
  7. #7  
    Didn't have the time (yet) to check what's in the 1.1 update, though...
    Don't bother, it's a rom flash!

    As for these drivers on the 600, let me say my $.02. The power issue is very possible, and if it's true, you won't know it until you try to power on the card and transmit, at which point you'll blow the SD slot on the 600...

    If it's not true, the same driver being worked on for the 650 will work on the 600. Either way, these zodiac drivers are the WRONG way to go, the slot2 reference as euroclie has noted is hard coded into the drivers and can not be easily changed without source code or a lot of time. I could do it, but it would take weeks to convert every memory address to the right ones (including the research time)...
  8. #8  
    Thanks shadowsmite! That will save me some time... even if it would have been fun to have wifi on the 600.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Don't bother, it's a rom flash!

    As for these drivers on the 600, let me say my $.02. The power issue is very possible, and if it's true, you won't know it until you try to power on the card and transmit, at which point you'll blow the SD slot on the 600...

    If it's not true, the same driver being worked on for the 650 will work on the 600. Either way, these zodiac drivers are the WRONG way to go, the slot2 reference as euroclie has noted is hard coded into the drivers and can not be easily changed without source code or a lot of time. I could do it, but it would take weeks to convert every memory address to the right ones (including the research time)...
    I have the luxury of having an extra Treo 600 parts model. I would be willing to try the the wi-fi card if I can get one. If you think that the same driver will work for both models(600-650) I guess I will turn my attention back to the 650 wi-fi project and see how it plays out. Both of you guys know alot more about it than myself. When you solve the 650 problem, I will test on my 600 and let you know how it goes.
  10. #10  
    Let me add, it's possible the sdio addressing could be different between the two models... But considering most every app that reads/writes from the sd card works I figure it'll be compatible between them... if not, that would be phase two.
  11. #11  
    QUESTIONS

    Do the Cell Phone companies have a deal with PalmOne not to allow WiFi so that they can generate revenue for data? Not far fetched as it is well known that VZW crippled Bluetooth on the Moto 710 to keep the Get It Now vendors happy.

    While I would love WiFi on my 600, I would be very surprised if the TapWare driver works.

    (fingers crossed!)

    PS: I think the voltage/power issue is a bunch of BS!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Don't bother, it's a rom flash!

    As for these drivers on the 600, let me say my $.02. The power issue is very possible, and if it's true, you won't know it until you try to power on the card and transmit, at which point you'll blow the SD slot on the 600...

    If it's not true, the same driver being worked on for the 650 will work on the 600. Either way, these zodiac drivers are the WRONG way to go, the slot2 reference as euroclie has noted is hard coded into the drivers and can not be easily changed without source code or a lot of time. I could do it, but it would take weeks to convert every memory address to the right ones (including the research time)...
    Shadowmite offers some good counsel on the issue with the 600 / Zodiac drivers. From the sound of it - going down that path enters what I call with my teams a Vietnam project - despite years / dollars / lives, at the end, you'll have nothing to show for it except the cost.

    I've raised the power issue with the SD slot with P1 executives and technical leads - no one has shot me down or provided info that has disputed that possibility. Usually, I get a sheepish excuse and some mention of Handspring followed by some muttering. So, I think it has merit. I've seen worse design decisions made in other products / companies.

    I would think though, if I put a WiFi card into the 600, like the SanDisk WiFi / 256, and tried to power the card on - the lack of sufficient power wouldn't cook the slot - but rather the WiFi part of the card would just be DOA. If there is insufficient juice to the slot -- then it wouldn't / couldn't fry - it would just not be able to power up.

    Shadowmite has earned the point of view that we should strongly consider - let's focus on a structured approach for the 650 and solve that nut. Once the 650 is done, we can tackle the 600 and see what we see.

    I'm a 600 user, and presently not leaning towards the 650 at all unless we (or P1) get WiFi running. One of the main reasons I got the 600 was the advertised upgradibility to BT and WiFi. While I really like the 600 and use it / PDANet a lot - I don't feel like becoming an annuity for PalmOne and their newest product cycle unless it meets my needs.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos
    I would think though, if I put a WiFi card into the 600, like the SanDisk WiFi / 256, and tried to power the card on - the lack of sufficient power wouldn't cook the slot - but rather the WiFi part of the card would just be DOA. If there is insufficient juice to the slot -- then it wouldn't / couldn't fry - it would just not be able to power up.
    That's more or less what I'm thinking, but as I have no real need for WiFi anyway, I'll probably want to err on the cautious side and not try anything foolish... I mean, I'll need my 600 to keep working while I wait for the 650 (I'll certainly upgrade, WiFi or not), and a damaged Treo 600 would sell for much less when it come to financing the purchase of the 650!

    On the other hand, I just looooove dangerous experiments with computers!
  14. #14  
    The power issue is possible, but I doubt it's a real problem. I don't see the Treo having enough power in it to supply the slot w/ an overage. I know it's possible because my motherboard has done it. If the draw is too great for the components, it can overload the circuits or wiring and melt it. Check out threads on the Tyan S2460 Tiger MP and you'll see what I mean. But as I said, I would hope the Treo does not have enough juice to overload the circuits and the circuits are built with a high enough failsafe so it wouldn't fry. The big problem is that it can take months before the problem arises too, so a brutal stress test and maybe some multimeter readings would be good to make sure it's safe for the average person.
  15.    #15  
    I have been doing some research.This is an interesting article:

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6428

    But if it is from January, why has nothing been relaeased yet? Politics?
  16. #16  
    Check out threads on the Tyan S2460 Tiger MP and you'll see what I mean.
    Watch it man, you're talking about one of my favorite boards! (I have one, used to have 2!) The power issue could be real or not, but the fact of the matter is if the card draws more than the rated maximum of the transistor switching circuits, it will cook them... It's simple electronic theory. Of course they could have build in limiters, but that's not cheap nor needed for memory cards so I doubt they did... Regardless, anyone with insurance can try this once we are to that stage of the game. Heck, they could try it now with the 3.1 release I gave yesterday, it works very buggy, but if the light comes on and stays on when trying to connect it means it'll most likely work...
  17. sjuffe's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by TrickerZ
    The power issue is possible, but I doubt it's a real problem. I don't see the Treo having enough power in it to supply the slot w/ an overage. I know it's possible because my motherboard has done it. If the draw is too great for the components, it can overload the circuits or wiring and melt it. Check out threads on the Tyan S2460 Tiger MP and you'll see what I mean. But as I said, I would hope the Treo does not have enough juice to overload the circuits and the circuits are built with a high enough failsafe so it wouldn't fry. The big problem is that it can take months before the problem arises too, so a brutal stress test and maybe some multimeter readings would be good to make sure it's safe for the average person.
    I agree, multimeter readers would tell if the voltage is the same or able to support the draw the card uses. I find it hard to believe that the WiFi takes such a draw that it would turn your sdio port to soup.
    "I'm not against half-naked girls - not as often as I'd like to be..." Benny Hill
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Don't bother, it's a rom flash!

    As for these drivers on the 600, let me say my $.02. The power issue is very possible, and if it's true, you won't know it until you try to power on the card and transmit, at which point you'll blow the SD slot on the 600...

    If it's not true, the same driver being worked on for the 650 will work on the 600. Either way, these zodiac drivers are the WRONG way to go, the slot2 reference as euroclie has noted is hard coded into the drivers and can not be easily changed without source code or a lot of time. I could do it, but it would take weeks to convert every memory address to the right ones (including the research time)...
    It might only be a result of detection of a non-WiFi SD card in the slot.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  19. #19  
    Why not bring a WiFi card to your local cell phone store and see what happens?

    I don't think it will blow the SD circuitry - It just won't work IMO

    (what about the issue of the cell phone companies not allowing PalmOne to give WiFi functionality to the Treo <- that is my opinion!)
  20. #20  
    Quick Update. Have used Shadow's 3.1 drivers on my Treo 600 with a P1 Wi-Fi card. No reset problems at all. The card lights up with a solid-green LED but can't see my Linksys WRT54G router. (maybe I should set it to 802.11b only instead of mixed mode). Will check and report back.

    p.S. Seems like the SDIO being underpowered is BS
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