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  1.    #41  
    I have been doing some more research on available wi-fi drivers for Palm OS based handhelds. My latest investigation involved the Palm Zire 71 which is a supported device for the San Disk Wi-Fi Card. The specs for the Zire 71 seem to be even closer to the Treo 600 than the Tapwave. Take a look:
    Treo 600_______________Palm Zire 71
    144 MHz Processor_______144 MHz Processor
    Palm OS 5.2.1H__________Palm OS 5.2.1
    1800 mAh Lithium Polymer_lithium polymer 900mAh battery
    32 Mb RAM_____________16Mb RAM
    SDIO/SD/MMC slot ______SDIO/SD/MMC slot

    If the Zire 71 can support wi-fi, with what looks to me like less power supply, then I think the Treo 600 and 650 also should. An important note to make is that the San Disk Wi-Fi specifically says "low power" right on the front. Maybe this card is the way to go rather than the P1 card. I looked on San Disks website and you can only download drivers for the PPC 2002/2003 for the wi-fi card, I think that the drivers for the Zire 71 may have been introduced in the attached wi-fi driver update issued by P1. I do not have the ability to pick these apart myself as I have almost zero programming knowledge, but I think it may be worth while. San Disk may have found the solution to a low power SDIO slot before palm. If any one has the ability, I think these should be looked at.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  2. #42  
    Got my P1 wifi card today - got it installed and running within minutes on my t3 card works great. Pretty cool stuff, I must say. Onwards:

    Tried shadows v3.1 and Beta 1 drivers on my 600 after performing a hard reset before both attempts (to keep everything nice and "clean")

    3.1 gives card not recognized message, but will go through the attempt to find a network. no lights, blinking, solid, or otherwise on card. No resets, though.

    Beta 1 give a soft rest everytime you try to enter wifi setup, or change the network from sprint to wifi in network prefs. again, no lights on card at all.

    Tried both several times each, nothing different on any attempt. No luck here at all...

    Vish - can you tell me what version you tried (perhaps attach them here) - I'm thinking I might have tried to use a somewhat different version than you. I'm using Sprint cdma treo - perhaps you're gsm?? Also, sorry to hear about your treo...
  3. #43  
    So I suppose this WiFi effort is over?
  4. #44  
    It's never over. That's just a bump in the road. One of these 'determined minds' will figure it out. WHERE THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY!
    Make It Happen!!
    If you don't, who will?
  5. #45  
    Lure,

    I, for one, don't think it's over - vish had some (sort of) success: solid light light on wifi card - I have not been able to duplicate in order to perform further testing but I am waiting to hear back from him on exactly what drivers he was using and if there are any other differences in our attempts.

    He's out of commision now (600 down...), but I think it's only a speed bump. He's was about to do some testing with a B access, and hopefully I will be able to duplicate his results.

    Also, after looking at the comparisons made by morrisonmuscle, I'm not sure that comparing battery specs if quite the same as sd slot power specs. Anyone dis/agree?
  6. #46  
    Sounds sensible but what I keep coming back to is the SDIO standard, if the T600 doesn't supply enough power to enable WIFI cards to work then who isn't implementing the standard correctly?
    1) Is it the T600 in which case P1 are guilty of false advertising.
    2) Is it the card vendors in which case they are guilty of false advertising.
    3) Does the SDIO spec not specify the power details?
    Anyone have an answer?
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Sounds sensible but what I keep coming back to is the SDIO standard, if the T600 doesn't supply enough power to enable WIFI cards to work then who isn't implementing the standard correctly?
    1) Is it the T600 in which case P1 are guilty of false advertising.
    2) Is it the card vendors in which case they are guilty of false advertising.
    3) Does the SDIO spec not specify the power details?
    Anyone have an answer?
    Turns out the SDIO spec does details the power requirements: SDIO Specification Page 18 "SDIO v1.01 cards 15ma on insertion, no more than 50ma ave. over 400us for single cards or 100ma ave. over 1sec for combo cards.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Turns out the SDIO spec does details the power requirements: SDIO Specification Page 18 "SDIO v1.01 cards 15ma on insertion, no more than 50ma ave. over 400us for single cards or 100ma ave. over 1sec for combo cards.
    So then I did some more surfing and found a review of an SDIO WIFI card here
    and it's power consumption is much higher, maybe this is why there's a problem as if I read the SDIO spec correctly this is well outside of the allowed range, maybe the problem that it's SDIO v1.0 rather than SDIO v1.01, in which case has anyone heard of an SDIO v1.01 compliant WIFI card?
    * Model: WL11-SD
    * Interface: SDIO Specification Ver.1.0
    * Voltage: 3.3 V
    * Speed: 11 Mbps / 5.5 Mbps / 2 Mbps / 1 Mbps
    * Effective distance:
    o Indoors to 30 meters
    o Direct visibility to 370 meters
    * Security: WEP (64 bit / 128 bit)
    * Power consumption: from 2 mA (Deep Sleep) to 300 mA (Typical)
    * OS supported: Pocket PC 2002, Windows Mobile 2003 for Pocket PC
    * Size: 55x24x2.1 mm
    * Weight: 10 g
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Turns out the SDIO spec does details the power requirements: SDIO Specification Page 18 "SDIO v1.01 cards 15ma on insertion, no more than 50ma ave. over 400us for single cards or 100ma ave. over 1sec for combo cards.
    An addition to the above, from the same source: "This current limit will continue until the card exits the initialization procedure"

    The above power (current) limits only appear to refer to initialization of the card. If not, than NO device should be able to power the wifi card as mentioned in post 48.

    What we really need is specs on the P1 card and the 600's SDIO slot power output.

    Good find on the SDIO spec!
  10. #50  
    tag
  11. #51  
    Spent some time today trying to find specs on the P1 card - can't find any - seems, though, that it is basically the same card as the SanDisk, and the Socket wifi card. All seem to be made by SyChip (this might have been known before, sorry if repeat info).

    The power consumption seems for all of these cards seems to be close to 300mA @max, when the card is receiving/transmitting (actually in a range of ~275 to 290mA, depending on where you look), but can't really find any info specific to the P1 card, nor the Treo 600 slot output.

    I will be taking on the testing of the sd slot on the 600 - I've found an appropriate interface and will report back my results. Personally, I believe the "under-powered slot" excuse is a load of ****. I hope to be able to put this issue to rest.

    I'll take on the 650 testing after I complete the 600 testing if it turns out to be necessary. I have to do it in this order as I do not have a 650 yet.

    I'll be testing the slot using a P1 card and a 600. I'll compare the results with the same P1 card, and my T3 - which is setup and performs wonderfully with the wifi card.

    Hopefully, I'll hear back from Vish so I can duplicate his results with the card on the 600 (light on).

    I'll report back when I have the necessary interface in hand.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mathetesnj
    I'll report back when I have the necessary interface in hand.
    What kind of interface? Doesn't the card go into the SD slot?
    Just wondering...
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  13. #53  
    SD card extender - think "extension cord" for sd cards. Has testing pins, leds, dip switches, etc.

    Direct current measurement can be made, as well as isolating the power output and providing your own power supply.
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by mathetesnj
    SD card extender - think "extension cord" for sd cards. Has testing pins, leds, dip switches, etc.

    Direct current measurement can be made, as well as isolating the power output and providing your own power supply.
    Good work on the testing end of this project. Have you heard any thing from Vish?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by mathetesnj
    SD card extender - think "extension cord" for sd cards. Has testing pins, leds, dip switches, etc.

    Direct current measurement can be made, as well as isolating the power output and providing your own power supply.
    OK, thanks. I still have one of those for 25-pin RS-232.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrisonmuscle
    Good work on the testing end of this project. Have you heard any thing from Vish?
    Just got the quote on the extender and placed the order - it's coming from CA to NJ via 2nd day, should have it tuesday and testing will begin shortly thereafter.

    No, I've not heard back from vish yet - it's kinda important that I can replicate his results. When the card led is blinking it's searching for networks, and when it's solid it's found/connected - I can't get it to do any of that with my 600.

    Obviously, in order to test the power output of the treo slot I need to have it search/connect. Just plugging the card in causes minimal power draw, but the card isn't @ max. demand unless it is actually searching/communicating.

    I'm thinking about creating a variable, dummy load to test the max output. Not sure if I want to do this though, as I don't know what, if any, current limiters are present in the slot. I'd really rather just check it with the P1 wifi card... Maybe I could just test it up to 300mA... Still scratching my head about this one.

    I can test the P1 card with my T3, just to confirm what it's demands are.
  17.    #57  
    I read this on the Treo 650 wi-fi discussion acouple of days ago and I find it interseting regarding the topic of power issues. I think that palm may have decided not to work on a wi-fi for the 600 due to the SDIO power rating that you guys are talking about. San Disk never officially relaeased the driver for the Tungsten E for this reason, even though it worked fine for all of the testing on it. Read the following quote from pg. 37 of the 65o wi-fi thread:

    "Hi guys, I have a tungsten E and the Sandisk Wifi SD card is not supported on it, but low and behold I install the drivers and in the temporary files from the installer I see the driver for the tungsten e there, but it isn't installed. I installed it and it's working great on my E. The WAP picker is strange in that i have to manually enter in most of the IP/DNS info, but it works great...AND I know the tungsten e doesn't have a great battery. Sandisk says that they didn't officially release this driver b/c the power requirements of the card are beyond the ratings for the E. 5 months of everyday wifi use and still no problems. Unofficially they say they have it running fine on the E too. I thought I'd post the drivers for everyone to pick around at and see if there are any clues. Thanks, James
    oops, I tried to post it, but it was too big...here's the link
    http://www.sandisk.com/tech/docs/palm-driver-v3.zip "
  18. #58  
    mathetesnj: Hi again. Sorry for the delay in replying back. Been looking for a Treo 600 on eBay - as you are aware that I lost mine to a fall and I believe it works except for the screen...but still unusable! So, can't test till I get the replacement from eBay.

    Anyway, I used the 3.1 drivers released by Shadowmite and it worked till the point of adding the access point manually but well, there was no real signal or blink on the P1 card however it did light up to a solid green. I don't know what I did different that the others here but it did light up. I was about to test with a B-only router before the Treo crash landed on tarmac!

    Once I have my replacement in, shall get back here.
  19. #59  
    Vish,

    Just tried again, with v3, v3.1, v4, and Beta1 - no dice on any, though 3.1 "works" the best. I can get through to the manual network setup screen before I get any reset, but never any light on the card, blinking or solid.

    Wonder what I'm doing differently than you... I've done a hard reset before trying each version so the treo is "clean". Could the difference is that I'm using a CDMA and you're GSM?
  20. #60  
    I don't think its got to do with CDMA/GSM but who knows....another thing is, I also had the Zodia drivers installed at some point....I have hard reset the Treo like some 80+ times...don't even remember what I did each time - wish I did
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